NATION

PASSWORD

The Dictators Thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Punished UMN
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6163
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:45 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Kowani wrote:well
that's not entirely true
the incentive system created by dictatorships tends to lead towards worse outcomes

That is correct, but systems created by other forms of government also lead to worse outcomes. All forms of government involve a trade-off. In dictatorship, the trade-off is that the dictator gives up most forms of policy-feedback in favor of being able to push through policy relatively easily. In democracy, it's the opposite, the government gives up most of its ability to actually implement policy in favor of getting clear feedback on its policies.

Of course this is all in-theory, and the cultures in which dictatorships arise often make it difficult for dictators to actually implement policy; however, I don't think that that is inherently an issue with dictatorship itself. Because of that, I would say the inability of dictators to trust feedback they get on policy and the inability of the populace to be able to safely give honest feedback are probably the biggest challenges which faces dictatorships.
Eastern Orthodox Christian. Purgatorial universalist.
Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize.
The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on it, keep going.
Pro: The fundamental dignitas of the human spirit as expressed through its self-actualization in theosis. Anti: Faustian-Demonic Space Anarcho-Capitalism with Italo-Futurist Characteristics

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:47 pm

Atheris wrote:Most dictators are detrimental to society - Pol Pot, Xi Jinping, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and Adolf Hitler all come to mind - but there are a select few that actually benefit and enrich their nation and history. Among these are Napoleon, Abdullah II of Jordan, Tito, and of course GAIVS! *swings arm* IVLIVS! *swings arm* CAESAR! *swings arm*

You can't judge a dictatorship as being "good" or "bad" solely because it's a dictatorship. It's the actions of the dictatorship that define its benevolence/malevolence. Often times, the death of even a benevolent dictatorship can lead to the end or catastrophe in a nation - the death of Tito destroyed Yugoslavia, the death of Caesar destroyed the Republic (de facto; the republic died with Gracchus), and the fall of Napoleon put France back into a corrupt absolute monarchy for 30 years.


I find it odd to consider the death of the Republic a bad thing given the Pax Romana and the literal millennia long existence of Roman civilization after that point.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Esheaun Stroakuss
Minister
 
Posts: 2023
Founded: May 23, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:55 am

Fuck 'em. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.
For: Socialism, Democracy, LGBT+, BLM, Freedom of Speech, Marxist Theory, Atheism, Freedom of/from Religion, Universal Healthcare
Against: Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism, Fascism/Nazism, Authoritarianism, TERFs, Tankies, Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Capitalism

Esheaun Stroakuss is leaderless.

User avatar
Hong Kong People
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 118
Founded: Aug 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Hong Kong People » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:58 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:Fuck 'em. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.

Singapore's Lee Kwan Yiu?
Last edited by Hong Kong People on Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Saiwania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:58 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:Fuck 'em. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.


It depends on what you'd consider good I suppose. Park Chung-hee: single handedly took South Korea from a developing nation into rich nation status.
Last edited by Saiwania on Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

User avatar
Esheaun Stroakuss
Minister
 
Posts: 2023
Founded: May 23, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:00 am

Hong Kong People wrote:
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:Fuck 'em. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.

Singapore's Lee Kwan Yiu?


Nope.

Saiwania wrote:
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:Fuck 'em. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.


It depends on what you'd consider good I suppose. Park Chung-hee: single handedly took South Korea from a developing nation into rich nation status.


The success of any nation is overshadowed by the leadership if it is awful.
For: Socialism, Democracy, LGBT+, BLM, Freedom of Speech, Marxist Theory, Atheism, Freedom of/from Religion, Universal Healthcare
Against: Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism, Fascism/Nazism, Authoritarianism, TERFs, Tankies, Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Capitalism

Esheaun Stroakuss is leaderless.

User avatar
Saiwania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:02 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:The success of any nation is overshadowed by the leadership if it is awful.


It arguably isn't though, if the average citizen is living comfortably if not in luxury when previously, the living conditions had much to be desired. Most people want to be able to enjoy prosperity and keep doing so, once it is actually found.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

User avatar
An Alan Smithee Nation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7623
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:19 am

No country should be run according to the self interest of just one of the people who live there.

No one person is capable of the complex task of running a nation by themselves.

Countries run by dictators become unstable when the dictator dies.

If you want to be dominated by a strong leader, there are people you can pay to do that for you, without fucking up your country for everyone else.
Everything is intertwinkled

User avatar
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
Minister
 
Posts: 3230
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:12 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Hong Kong People wrote:Singapore's Lee Kwan Yiu?


Nope.

Saiwania wrote:
It depends on what you'd consider good I suppose. Park Chung-hee: single handedly took South Korea from a developing nation into rich nation status.


The success of any nation is overshadowed by the leadership if it is awful.

Newsflash: People care more about food on the table and safety in the streets more than the liberal notion of "rights" and "freedom"
Not an adherent of Italian Fascism anymore, leaning more and more towards Falangist Syndicalism
Corporatism and Corporatocracy are completely different things
9axes
Pro: Falange, Command Economy, Class-Cooperation, Cultural Nationalism, Authoritarianism, Third Positionism, Border Security
Anti: Communism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Trump, Globalism, Racism, Democracy, Immigration

User avatar
Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10552
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:20 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Newsflash: People care more about food on the table and safety in the streets more than the liberal notion of "rights" and "freedom"

They also care about rights and freedom if they are being tortured or killed without a trial or evidence.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
More NSG-y than NSG veterans
♛ The Empire of Picairn ♛
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
Colonel (Brevet) of the North Pacific Army, COO of Warzone Trinidad

User avatar
Garkland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 448
Founded: Jan 20, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Garkland » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:24 am

A dictator (with the right goals and priorities) is good for a nation in the short term. They have little to no opposition, meaning they can get things done faster without interference from the other side. However, a dictatorship lasting for a lifetime will most likely fail.

User avatar
Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55272
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:27 am

Tranzoria wrote: Some cared for their people (or either mostly the support of them or the majority of them), like the 17-year Dictatorship of Chile, or Mussolini's Italy,


Please.
Less fascist bullshit.
.

User avatar
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
Minister
 
Posts: 3230
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:30 am

Picairn wrote:
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Newsflash: People care more about food on the table and safety in the streets more than the liberal notion of "rights" and "freedom"

They also care about rights and freedom if they are being tortured or killed without a trial or evidence.

In most benevolent dictatorships, such incidences are far outweighed by the amount of people whose quality of life goes up by security and stability.

If you people had to choose between a higher quality of life or freedom, what would it be, realistically? Put yourself in the shoes of, say, a poor person, or a homeless perso
Not an adherent of Italian Fascism anymore, leaning more and more towards Falangist Syndicalism
Corporatism and Corporatocracy are completely different things
9axes
Pro: Falange, Command Economy, Class-Cooperation, Cultural Nationalism, Authoritarianism, Third Positionism, Border Security
Anti: Communism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Trump, Globalism, Racism, Democracy, Immigration

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6412
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Atheris » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:44 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Atheris wrote:Most dictators are detrimental to society - Pol Pot, Xi Jinping, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and Adolf Hitler all come to mind - but there are a select few that actually benefit and enrich their nation and history. Among these are Napoleon, Abdullah II of Jordan, Tito, and of course GAIVS! *swings arm* IVLIVS! *swings arm* CAESAR! *swings arm*

You can't judge a dictatorship as being "good" or "bad" solely because it's a dictatorship. It's the actions of the dictatorship that define its benevolence/malevolence. Often times, the death of even a benevolent dictatorship can lead to the end or catastrophe in a nation - the death of Tito destroyed Yugoslavia, the death of Caesar destroyed the Republic (de facto; the republic died with Gracchus), and the fall of Napoleon put France back into a corrupt absolute monarchy for 30 years.


I find it odd to consider the death of the Republic a bad thing given the Pax Romana and the literal millennia long existence of Roman civilization after that point.

I never said it was a bad thing, just that the death of Caesar ended it. The republic was a failure.
Last edited by Atheris on Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
#FreeNSGRojava
Don't talk to Moderators. Don't associate with Moderators. Don't trust moderators. Moderators lie.
NEW VISAYAN ISLANDS SHOULD RESIGN! HOLD JANNIES ACCOUNTABLE!

User avatar
Shahrukh
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Feb 01, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Shahrukh » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 am

yoooooo dictatorgang
Have you ever noticed who runs those banks?

User avatar
Nuroblav
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Nov 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nuroblav » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:37 am

I could give my opinion on dictatorships, but quite frankly you could probably sense mine from miles off.

If the past century hadn't enough been a warning of the path of authoritarianism, then I don't know what will. And yes, I am well aware of the concept of benevolent dictatorships, but that's not really enough to gain my full trust in them.

Besides, as pointed out earlier, running a country is a pretty complicated task for one person.
Your NS mutualist(?), individualist, metalhead and all-round...err...human. TG if you have any questions about my political or musical views.

Economic Left/Right: -4.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03

\m/ METAL IS BASED \m/

User avatar
ImperialRussia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1036
Founded: May 16, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby ImperialRussia » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:39 am

This thread seems ok

User avatar
ImperialRussia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1036
Founded: May 16, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby ImperialRussia » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:39 am

This thread seems ok

User avatar
Tranzoria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1590
Founded: Feb 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Tranzoria » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:40 am

ImperialRussia wrote:This thread seems ok

Don't double post plz.
A Naive Nation in the Bay Area of California who has fought too many wars to count. NSG's Resident Yes-man.
Raider, Writer and Rickroll Fanatic.
Recent News: Tranzoria joins Israel-Palestine discussion-promises no flaming

Pro: Choice, Democracy, Acknowledgment, PR Statehood
Anti:Terrorism, Racism, Karenism, People who pour the Milk first

User avatar
ImperialRussia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1036
Founded: May 16, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby ImperialRussia » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:44 am

Tranzoria wrote:
ImperialRussia wrote:This thread seems ok

Don't double post plz.

Sorry there a glitch every time I post it doubles

User avatar
A z a n i a
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 135
Founded: Aug 21, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby A z a n i a » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:13 pm

Africa's had mote than its fair share of dictators (and, to a certain extent, still has). I can't think of any that have benefitted their countries in any meaningful, lasting way.
Republic of Azania

---
---
---
Basically an alt-history South Africa in which apartheid never happened.
09 February 2022
✉ News: Sasol confirms oil discovery at Orange Basin offshore well | "We are in the process of identifying potential sites for new nuclear power plants" - Department of Energy | Government finalises preparations for 2022 State of the Nation address | REGIONAL NEWS | Captured militants say Mozambique Jihadists "very weak" | "Zimbabwe remains ineligible for SADC membership" - SADC chairperson

Sig based off -Astoria's.
Many thanks to Greater Malayan Confederation for the new flag!

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6412
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Atheris » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:14 pm

A z a n i a wrote:Africa's had mote than its fair share of dictators (and, to a certain extent, still has). I can't think of any that have benefitted their countries in any meaningful, lasting way.

What about GOD EMPEROR OF THE CENTRAL AFRICAN EMPIRE BOKASSA I?

(joke btw)
#FreeNSGRojava
Don't talk to Moderators. Don't associate with Moderators. Don't trust moderators. Moderators lie.
NEW VISAYAN ISLANDS SHOULD RESIGN! HOLD JANNIES ACCOUNTABLE!

User avatar
Tranzoria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1590
Founded: Feb 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Tranzoria » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:14 pm

A z a n i a wrote:Africa's had mote than its fair share of dictators (and, to a certain extent, still has). I can't think of any that have benefitted their countries in any meaningful, lasting way.

List of African Dictators
A Naive Nation in the Bay Area of California who has fought too many wars to count. NSG's Resident Yes-man.
Raider, Writer and Rickroll Fanatic.
Recent News: Tranzoria joins Israel-Palestine discussion-promises no flaming

Pro: Choice, Democracy, Acknowledgment, PR Statehood
Anti:Terrorism, Racism, Karenism, People who pour the Milk first

User avatar
Tranzoria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1590
Founded: Feb 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Tranzoria » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:15 pm

Atheris wrote:
A z a n i a wrote:Africa's had mote than its fair share of dictators (and, to a certain extent, still has). I can't think of any that have benefitted their countries in any meaningful, lasting way.

What about GOD EMPEROR OF THE CENTRAL AFRICAN EMPIRE BOKASSA I?

(joke btw)

Here's the guy
A Naive Nation in the Bay Area of California who has fought too many wars to count. NSG's Resident Yes-man.
Raider, Writer and Rickroll Fanatic.
Recent News: Tranzoria joins Israel-Palestine discussion-promises no flaming

Pro: Choice, Democracy, Acknowledgment, PR Statehood
Anti:Terrorism, Racism, Karenism, People who pour the Milk first

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6412
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Atheris » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:17 pm

Tranzoria wrote:
Atheris wrote:What about GOD EMPEROR OF THE CENTRAL AFRICAN EMPIRE BOKASSA I?

(joke btw)

Here's the guy

His coronation cost a third of the CAR's annual budget and all the French aid. The guy was a based as fuck madman and I love him.
#FreeNSGRojava
Don't talk to Moderators. Don't associate with Moderators. Don't trust moderators. Moderators lie.
NEW VISAYAN ISLANDS SHOULD RESIGN! HOLD JANNIES ACCOUNTABLE!

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: American Legionaries, Benuty, Dapant, Ethel mermania, Glorious Freedonia, Grinning Dragon, Herador, Keltionialang, Kreushia, Likhinia, Plan Neonie, Shrillland, Singaporen Empire, The Black Forrest, The French National Workers State, The Vooperian Union

Advertisement

Remove ads