The New Glass Ceiling or Due Progress?

[Heloin]

Didn't think it'd come to this, but Biden might get me more mad than Obama ever did. First getting rid of the Muslim ban and now this pro-LGBT stuff?

When the Neo-Nazi is upset it sounds like things are going good.

[Sanghyeok]

Didn't think it'd come to this, but Biden might get me more mad than Obama ever did. First getting rid of the Muslim ban and now this pro-LGBT stuff?

Two very good things, and I don't like the guy. He must be trying to win my vote.

Why does far-right media always make neoliberal candidates sound more progressive than they are?

[Kowani]

ah yes
the department of education (an executive cabinet) should give its power to congress

you can stop hiding your bias, you know
it's not very well done

Well I am entitled to my own opinion, and while I initially flubbed on bias hiding I edited the OP. But, since the tears are being shed, I’m actually conflicted about it. I can see the argument many women make, but I see the issue of finding a suitable place for trans athletes outside of league melding. But, if I was a biological female, I probably would be a little triggered by it.

Really what chafes me is it being forced through as an exec order. It, and other things TBH, should’ve been put on the voting block.

there...really isn't an honest argument that "women could make"
the actual evidence just doesn't support the position that transpeople have any advantage in sports
the only other argument anyone could make, that "women's spaces are being invaded" is laughably, openly transphobic

[Senkaku]

It, and other things TBH, should’ve been put on the voting block.

Why? If you have an actual substantive rationale for why it "and other things" shouldn't have been done by EO, now's the time to offer it.

[Albrenia]

Two very good things, and I don't like the guy. He must be trying to win my vote.

Why does far-right media always make neoliberal candidates sound more progressive than they are?

I know right.

[Kannap]

Two very good things, and I don't like the guy. He must be trying to win my vote.

Why does far-right media always make neoliberal candidates sound more progressive than they are?

Far-right conservatives: BIDEN IS A SOCIALIST AND IS GOING TO INSTITUTE SOCIALISM AND DESTROY AMERICA

Me, an actual socialist: God I fucking wish.

[Kannap]

It, and other things TBH, should’ve been put on the voting block.

Why? If you have an actual substantive rationale for why it "and other things" shouldn't have been done by EO, now's the time to offer it.

The hope that it would get voted down in Congress?

[Nejii]

Well I am entitled to my own opinion, and while I initially flubbed on bias hiding I edited the OP. But, since the tears are being shed, I’m actually conflicted about it. I can see the argument many women make, but I see the issue of finding a suitable place for trans athletes outside of league melding. But, if I was a biological female, I probably would be a little triggered by it.

Really what chafes me is it being forced through as an exec order. It, and other things TBH, should’ve been put on the voting block.

there...really isn't an honest argument that "women could make"
the actual evidence just doesn't support the position that transpeople have any advantage in sports
the only other argument anyone could make, that "women's spaces are being invaded" is laughably, openly transphobic

Eh... I’m no woman so I can’t really argue from a stable platform with vehemence. But scores upon scores of women are triggered by this order and by relatable past happenings. And biology (depending on the publisher) can dispute males as having a physical advantage over females. But, as I said, I recognize the issue of “finding a place” for trans athletes. Creating a league for them even can be argued as good or bad. From my stance it’s tricky.

As I said prior, it being an executive order is my trigger point. Some things need to be put up for discussion and voting. Regardless of one’s own stance.

[Senkaku]

But scores upon scores of women are triggered by this order and by relatable past happenings.

First GMS, now you too? How many people in this society are under the impression that lots of people being mad about a thing for literally any reason at all automatically makes that thing a massive public policy crisis?

[Odreria]

there...really isn't an honest argument that "women could make"
the actual evidence just doesn't support the position that transpeople have any advantage in sports
the only other argument anyone could make, that "women's spaces are being invaded" is laughably, openly transphobic

Eh... I’m no woman so I can’t really argue from a stable platform with vehemence. But scores upon scores of women are triggered by this order and by relatable past happenings. And biology (depending on the publisher) can dispute males as having a physical advantage over females. But, as I said, I recognize the issue of “finding a place” for trans athletes. Creating a league for them even can be argued as good or bad. From my stance it’s tricky.

As I said prior, it being an executive order is my trigger point. Some things need to be put up for discussion and voting. Regardless of one’s own stance.

Name one thing that should be voted on

[The Marlborough]

I mean in the US alone there are ~2.7 million trans people. Add in Mexico and Canada and you'd have probably at least 4-4.5 million people to draw from. Seems like a reasonable pool to have a few dedicated sports leagues for.

Well color me unaware because I did not know that.

IIRC it's estimated that 0.82% of the US population is trans and applying a similar percentage to both Mexico and Canada (assuming that said leagues would cross over for both countries which they should because I'm tired of it being America only or having a couple of token Canadian teams) you'd have roughly 4-4.5 million people. Even assuming that only 19% of said community works out to a sufficient degree in which sports leagues could be formed (either professional or amateur) that's still ~800,000 people that could be playing in dedicated sports leagues for trans people. They might not be very large in terms of teams, but a lot of sports leagues in many places don't have a ton of teams either. For example with maybe 24 players for a futbol squad, you could have probably around 20 teams for league dedicated to trans futbol players which is reasonable in terms of league size (this is the size of the Premier League for reference).

And that 19% is atrocious, we should be pumping those numbers up for all demographics.

[The Marlborough]

Personally Senkaku, I'm against racial segregation. That you'd use this issue involving sex and gender as an attempt to push your racialist slippery slope agenda is both shocking and disappointing.

How good of you to advocate so earnestly for a better society and more inclusive future! You're such an inspiration.

Thank you, I wish I could say the same about you but alas the George Wallace legacy is too strong for this humble Canuck to counter in your American spirit.

[Senkaku]

Well color me unaware because I did not know that.

IIRC it's estimated that 0.82% of the US population is trans and applying a similar percentage to both Mexico and Canada (assuming that said leagues would cross over for both countries which they should because I'm tired of it being America only or having a couple of token Canadian teams) you'd have roughly 4-4.5 million people. Even assuming that only 19% of said community works out to a sufficient degree in which sports leagues could be formed (either professional or amateur) that's still ~800,000 people that could be playing in dedicated sports leagues for trans people. They might not be very large in terms of teams, but a lot of sports leagues in many places don't have a ton of teams either. For example with maybe 24 players for a futbol squad, you could have probably around 20 teams for league dedicated to trans futbol players which is reasonable in terms of league size (this is the size of the Premier League for reference).

And that 19% is atrocious, we should be pumping those numbers up for all demographics.

picturing the Sonora-Chihuahua-Sinaloa-Baja-Arizona-Coahuila team captain driving from Parral to Tucson for practice three times a week

(unless you were thinking more of a forced collectivization situation, in which promising trans athletes are deported from across North America to major-league training centers as soon as they're identified, wherever they may live?)

[Kowani]

there...really isn't an honest argument that "women could make"
the actual evidence just doesn't support the position that transpeople have any advantage in sports
the only other argument anyone could make, that "women's spaces are being invaded" is laughably, openly transphobic

Eh... I’m no woman so I can’t really argue from a stable platform with vehemence. But scores upon scores of women are triggered by this order and by relatable past happenings. And biology (depending on the publisher) can dispute males as having a physical advantage over females. But, as I said, I recognize the issue of “finding a place” for trans athletes. Creating a league for them even can be argued as good or bad. From my stance it’s tricky.

people believing something does not actually make those beliefs legitimate
did you...actually read the study i posted at all

As I said prior, it being an executive order is my trigger point. Some things need to be put up for discussion and voting. Regardless of one’s own stance.

so to clear this up, you're mad biden used an executive order...to set executive branch policy
and your solution is to give the legislative branch power to dictate the internal workings of the executive

[Nejii]

Eh... I’m no woman so I can’t really argue from a stable platform with vehemence. But scores upon scores of women are triggered by this order and by relatable past happenings. And biology (depending on the publisher) can dispute males as having a physical advantage over females. But, as I said, I recognize the issue of “finding a place” for trans athletes. Creating a league for them even can be argued as good or bad. From my stance it’s tricky.

As I said prior, it being an executive order is my trigger point. Some things need to be put up for discussion and voting. Regardless of one’s own stance.

Name one thing that should be voted on

I mean... this.

The undoing of Trump’s immigration enforcement initiatives. In my opinion.

The Keystone pipeline is... debatable. And I say that just because of the jobs it accosted.

That said, I actually agree with most of Biden’s executive orders. Especially those relating to COVID and COVID relief.

[The Marlborough]

IIRC it's estimated that 0.82% of the US population is trans and applying a similar percentage to both Mexico and Canada (assuming that said leagues would cross over for both countries which they should because I'm tired of it being America only or having a couple of token Canadian teams) you'd have roughly 4-4.5 million people. Even assuming that only 19% of said community works out to a sufficient degree in which sports leagues could be formed (either professional or amateur) that's still ~800,000 people that could be playing in dedicated sports leagues for trans people. They might not be very large in terms of teams, but a lot of sports leagues in many places don't have a ton of teams either. For example with maybe 24 players for a futbol squad, you could have probably around 20 teams for league dedicated to trans futbol players which is reasonable in terms of league size (this is the size of the Premier League for reference).

And that 19% is atrocious, we should be pumping those numbers up for all demographics.

picturing the Sonora-Chihuahua-Sinaloa-Baja-Arizona-Coahuila team captain driving from Parral to Tucson for practice three times a week

Wait until you find out that a lot of hockey players aren't born in the city whose team they play for. It's big and true.

[Nejii]

Eh... I’m no woman so I can’t really argue from a stable platform with vehemence. But scores upon scores of women are triggered by this order and by relatable past happenings. And biology (depending on the publisher) can dispute males as having a physical advantage over females. But, as I said, I recognize the issue of “finding a place” for trans athletes. Creating a league for them even can be argued as good or bad. From my stance it’s tricky.

people believing something does not actually make those beliefs legitimate
did you...actually read the study i posted at all

As I said prior, it being an executive order is my trigger point. Some things need to be put up for discussion and voting. Regardless of one’s own stance.

so to clear this up, you're mad biden used an executive order...to set executive branch policy
and your solution is to give the legislative branch power to dictate the internal workings of the executive

I did read it. And until you put some Zen on the passive aggressiveness this exchange is over.

[Nejii]

Hmmmm, a rough 50-50 voting split so far... Not as one sided as I was expecting.

[Li Jing]

Why? If you have an actual substantive rationale for why it "and other things" shouldn't have been done by EO, now's the time to offer it.

The hope that it would get voted down in Congress?

That’s kind of a harsh take. Executive orders can be abused, and while I don’t consider this an “abuse”, I don’t agree with it. I mean the idea of certain items needing to be put up for vote is only dumb to those who don’t believe in democracy or their bias is showing.

[Senkaku]

picturing the Sonora-Chihuahua-Sinaloa-Baja-Arizona-Coahuila team captain driving from Parral to Tucson for practice three times a week

Wait until you find out that a lot of hockey players aren't born in the city whose team they play for. It's big and true.

Yes, because their teams can afford to pay for that sort of thing, because the NHL has a huge and wealthy audience-- how many of those viewers do you think are likely to go watch the Trans Sports Network or whatever you're proposing? And how many are likely to watch the Trans Hockey League, if most of the best athletes are getting picked off for your Trans Premier League Soccer?

your suggestion is terrible and you know it's terrible, why not simply leave the world in peace from it

[Li Jing]

Didn't think it'd come to this, but Biden might get me more mad than Obama ever did. First getting rid of the Muslim ban and now this pro-LGBT stuff?

Biden is bombing Tel Aviv?!

Wut

[Albrenia]

Hmmmm, a rough 50-50 voting split so far... Not as one sided as I was expecting.

I mean, I can certainly see both sides' point, even disregarding people who disapprove merely out of transphobia or TERF malarky.

Questions about medications for transitioning, if natural testosterone outside of female standard ranges should count as a performance enhancer in women's sports and more are all questions above my pay grade, as is if this is something for an EO or a vote.

However, on the face of it, if we're going to recognise trans people are being members of the appropriate gender, it would seem unfair to deny them all the opportunities that come with their gender.

[Nejii]

Hmmmm, a rough 50-50 voting split so far... Not as one sided as I was expecting.

I mean, I can certainly see both sides' point, even disregarding people who disapprove merely out of transphobia or TERF malarky.

Questions about medications for transitioning, if natural testosterone outside of female standard ranges should count as a performance enhancer in women's sports and more are all questions above my pay grade, as is if this is something for an EO or a vote.

However, on the face of it, if we're going to recognise trans people are being members of the appropriate gender, it would seem unfair to deny them all the opportunities that come with their gender.

Trust me, I see both sides of the issue as well. But I still think it should have been an issue put up for vote. A lot of Biden’s EO’s were regarding COVID recovery for example, hence not something to be voted on. But something as societally impacting as this should have been presented on the ballot. Besides a lot of people waving their fist at my take on this were probably raging at some of Trump’s EO’s so... *shrug*

EDIT: Adding to that, a lot of people you see that don’t agree with this EO may be on the same stance as me. It’s not about your personal take on the issue, it’s about how something as impactful as this being pushed through an EO is concerning.

[Suriyanakhon]

Where are these super strong transwomen, can they open jars for me?

[Der Befreier]

Social policy should not be instilled by executive action. One might call it authoritarian to push something that could be called agenda-based without a democratic consensus.