The New Glass Ceiling or Due Progress?

[Vassenor]

I'm sick and tired of this idpol discussion. Shift focus of people dying because of troop deployments of where the US does not belong and pettle absolute nonsense and absurdity amoung virtue signaling.

People are capable of discussing more than one thing at once.

[Des-Bal]

"It'll happen aaany day now..."

Sorry if you didn't understand, how many attempted to compete? We're talking about rolling back restrictions against transgender athletes you can't set a fire and say "since it hasn't spread to the rest of the house we can safely pour gas on it."

[Agarntrop]

Less mudslinging than I expected on this thread TBH

[Vassenor]

Also if we're actually going to talk about throwing out science we should actually look at what science says.

Sport and Transgender People: A Systematic Review of the Literature Relating to Sport Participation and Competitive Sport Policies

Results
In relation to sport-related physical activity, this review found the lack of inclusive and comfortable environments to be the primary barrier to participation for transgender people. This review also found transgender people had a mostly negative experience in competitive sports because of the restrictions the sport’s policy placed on them. The majority of transgender competitive sport policies that were reviewed were not evidence based.

Conclusion
Currently, there is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgender female individuals (or male individuals) have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition (e.g. cross-sex hormones, gender-confirming surgery) and, therefore, competitive sport policies that place restrictions on transgender people need to be considered and potentially revised.

[Des-Bal]

That conclusion is hilariously disconnected from the evidence they used. They looked at a ton of shit on how bad transgender athletes feel but their discussion of comparative advantage only looks at the differences between mtf and ftm transgender people then argues since FTMs aren't restricted neither should MTFs be.

This is weird since their source says giving MTFs cross sex hormone therapy decreases their muscle mass but they remain stronger than FTMs who did not receive testosterone.

[The Horror Channel]

Should have been voted on. This will come back to bite them.

[Page]

Should have been voted on. This will come back to bite them.

TERFs teaming up with right-wing reactionaries and religious fanatics to own the trans might come back to bite them, they might be regretful when the next move of the politicians they vote for after banning trans people from sports is to criminalize abortion and miscarriages.

[The Horror Channel]

Should have been voted on. This will come back to bite them.

TERFs teaming up with right-wing reactionaries and religious fanatics to own the trans might come back to bite them, they might be regretful when the next move of the politicians they vote for after banning trans people from sports is to criminalize abortion and miscarriages.

Nah.

[Vassenor]

Should have been voted on. This will come back to bite them.

So there needed to be a vote to overturn Trump's last second rule changes that weren't voted on either?

[The Free Joy State]

I don't even really understand why the division should be by gender instead of something more akin to weight class.

Or height in cases where height is incredibly important.

Or perhaps musculature. Such classes would seem to prevent all this hullaballoo.

But, until another method is happened upon, I see no reason why transwomen shouldn't compete against non-transgender women. Research shows transwomen have no advantage over non-transgender women, so there's no competitive reason why they should be excluded from competition.

[Des-Bal]

So there needed to be a vote to overturn Trump's last second rule changes that weren't voted on either?

How are you not just a trump supporter if your standard of acceptable conduct is "well Trump did it?"

[National Capitalist United States]

So there needed to be a vote to overturn Trump's last second rule changes that weren't voted on either?

How are you not just a trump supporter if your standard of acceptable conduct is "well Trump did it?"

"If you're not with us, then you're against us"
-people that need to get away from the keyboard and go outside

[Page]

So there needed to be a vote to overturn Trump's last second rule changes that weren't voted on either?

How are you not just a trump supporter if your standard of acceptable conduct is "well Trump did it?"

Vass is correct in pointing out that it's deceptive to frame this as Biden going over everyone's heads with an executive decision when all Biden did was undo a rule Trump imposed in the last days of his terms. Biden didn't change anything, Trump tried to change things and Biden said "nope."

[Vassenor]

So there needed to be a vote to overturn Trump's last second rule changes that weren't voted on either?

How are you not just a trump supporter if your standard of acceptable conduct is "well Trump did it?"

If you're not even going to read my posts then there's no point trying to debate with you.

[SD_Film Artists]

South Park has become real. We're going to get Randy Savage in womens' tournaments.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Somebody call the FBI because Biden's become really based since he became president.

[Vassenor]

South Park has become real. We're going to get Randy Savage in womens' tournaments.

Science says otherwise.

Sport and Transgender People: A Systematic Review of the Literature Relating to Sport Participation and Competitive Sport Policies

Results
In relation to sport-related physical activity, this review found the lack of inclusive and comfortable environments to be the primary barrier to participation for transgender people. This review also found transgender people had a mostly negative experience in competitive sports because of the restrictions the sport’s policy placed on them. The majority of transgender competitive sport policies that were reviewed were not evidence based.

Conclusion
Currently, there is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgender female individuals (or male individuals) have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition (e.g. cross-sex hormones, gender-confirming surgery) and, therefore, competitive sport policies that place restrictions on transgender people need to be considered and potentially revised.

[Des-Bal]

Science says otherwise.

That article sucks and gels poorly with your argument. It days policies aren't evidence based because nobody is especially concerned about transgender male athletes and the place you're taking it is "in for an penny in for a pound."

[The Blaatschapen]

I am going to put it out there.

If something was changed with an executive order, then going back to the status quo also only needs an executive order.

[Suriyanakhon]

I am going to put it out there.

If something was changed with an executive order, then going back to the status quo also only needs an executive order.

This, civil rights should not be debatable.

[Des-Bal]

I am going to put it out there.

If something was changed with an executive order, then going back to the status quo also only needs an executive order.

I can't go source hunting right now but would anyone like to take bets on whether the order biden issued just said "disregard that thing trump said?"

[Dumb Ideologies]

This is less complicated than a lot of people make it out to be.

Some of the transactivists who have gone big on this issue could already be world champions at mental gymnastics for either gender. It is difficult to deny that there are legacy advantages in terms of stature and in terms of the "brain mapping" for certain types of competitive sports for those who have had a male puberty and quite possibly inherent advantages from having male biology in the first instance. However, if we are imposing more widely the social norm that transwomen are women and to think otherwise is hate speech there is really little ground for sport to be a hold out. In competitive sport natural advantages from one's biology have always been an inherent part of the equation - this is part of "natural ability" and it combines with degrees of effort to produce champions.

Transwomen athletes will likely be disproportionally concentrated among the most able in many women's sports if they're allowed to compete - they won't always win because biological characteristics are clusters and probabilities rather than outright rules, but they'll have disproportionate success. But transwomen are either women or they are not, and if they are women then they should be highly represented among those who triumph in sporting events just like other women before them who have enjoyed advantages in aptitude.

Biden most likely did not want to put it to a vote because he has pledged to be a pro-LGBT president and any such vote would highlight the divide on whether transwomen are really women, and that even some in his own party aren't entirely sold on the idea - for good or for ill this is not a message he wants to be sent out.

[SD_Film Artists]

South Park has become real. We're going to get Randy Savage in womens' tournaments.

Science says otherwise.

Sport and Transgender People: A Systematic Review of the Literature Relating to Sport Participation and Competitive Sport Policies

Results
In relation to sport-related physical activity, this review found the lack of inclusive and comfortable environments to be the primary barrier to participation for transgender people. This review also found transgender people had a mostly negative experience in competitive sports because of the restrictions the sport’s policy placed on them. The majority of transgender competitive sport policies that were reviewed were not evidence based.

Conclusion
Currently, there is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgender female individuals (or male individuals) have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition (e.g. cross-sex hormones, gender-confirming surgery) and, therefore, competitive sport policies that place restrictions on transgender people need to be considered and potentially revised.

Exactly where does it say otherwise? Also I'd assume that 'inclusive and comfortable environments' and 'restrictions' are code for 'the event organisers didn't do everything that I demanded of them!'

And what Des-Bal said.

This is less complicated than a lot of people make it out to be.

Some of the transactivists who have gone big on this issue could already be world champions at mental gymnastics for either gender. It is difficult to deny that there are legacy advantages in terms of stature and in terms of the "brain mapping" for certain types of competitive sports for those who have had a male puberty and quite possibly inherent advantages from having male biology in the first instance. However, if we are imposing more widely the social norm that transwomen are women and to think otherwise is hate speech there is really little ground for sport to be a hold out. In competitive sport natural advantages from one's biology have always been an inherent part of the equation - this is part of "natural ability" and it combines with degrees of effort to produce champions.

Transwomen athletes will likely be disproportionally concentrated among the most able in many women's sports if they're allowed to compete - they won't always win because biological characteristics are clusters and probabilities rather than outright rules, but they'll have disproportionate success. But transwomen are either women or they are not, and if they are women then they should be highly represented among those who triumph in sporting events just like other women before them who have enjoyed advantages in aptitude.

Biden most likely did not want to put it to a vote because he has pledged to be a pro-LGBT president and any such vote would highlight the divide on whether transwomen are really women, and that even some in his own party aren't entirely sold on the idea - for good or for ill this is not a message he wants to be sent out.

That's the issue, that it's practicality over ideology. Sports could take a more clinical approach by having biological men play against men, or they could take the ideological approuch and say that trans women are women in all respects. Perhaps one way to remove the problem is to not have gendered sports at all. One problem with being a top-tier female sports player is that they're restricted to a small-time league for no other reason than their gender.

[Dumb Ideologies]

This is less complicated than a lot of people make it out to be.

Some of the transactivists who have gone big on this issue could already be world champions at mental gymnastics for either gender. It is difficult to deny that there are legacy advantages in terms of stature and in terms of the "brain mapping" for certain types of competitive sports for those who have had a male puberty and quite possibly inherent advantages from having male biology in the first instance. However, if we are imposing more widely the social norm that transwomen are women and to think otherwise is hate speech there is really little ground for sport to be a hold out. In competitive sport natural advantages from one's biology have always been an inherent part of the equation - this is part of "natural ability" and it combines with degrees of effort to produce champions.

Transwomen athletes will likely be disproportionally concentrated among the most able in many women's sports if they're allowed to compete - they won't always win because biological characteristics are clusters and probabilities rather than outright rules, but they'll have disproportionate success. But transwomen are either women or they are not, and if they are women then they should be highly represented among those who triumph in sporting events just like other women before them who have enjoyed advantages in aptitude.

Biden most likely did not want to put it to a vote because he has pledged to be a pro-LGBT president and any such vote would highlight the divide on whether transwomen are really women, and that even some in his own party aren't entirely sold on the idea - for good or for ill this is not a message he wants to be sent out.

That's the issue, that it's practicality over ideology. Sports could take a more clinical approach by having biological men play against men, or they could take the ideological approuch and say that trans women are women in all respects. Perhaps one way to remove the problem is to not have gendered sports at all. One problem with being a top-tier female sports player is that they're restricted to a small-time league for no other reason than their gender.

Abolishing all sports is the long awaited final form of "I'm going to take my ball and go home". As a longtime advocate of the theory of evolution I am obliged to support.

[Agarntrop]

This is less complicated than a lot of people make it out to be.

Some of the transactivists who have gone big on this issue could already be world champions at mental gymnastics for either gender. It is difficult to deny that there are legacy advantages in terms of stature and in terms of the "brain mapping" for certain types of competitive sports for those who have had a male puberty and quite possibly inherent advantages from having male biology in the first instance. However, if we are imposing more widely the social norm that transwomen are women and to think otherwise is hate speech there is really little ground for sport to be a hold out. In competitive sport natural advantages from one's biology have always been an inherent part of the equation - this is part of "natural ability" and it combines with degrees of effort to produce champions.

Transwomen athletes will likely be disproportionally concentrated among the most able in many women's sports if they're allowed to compete - they won't always win because biological characteristics are clusters and probabilities rather than outright rules, but they'll have disproportionate success. But transwomen are either women or they are not, and if they are women then they should be highly represented among those who triumph in sporting events just like other women before them who have enjoyed advantages in aptitude.

Biden most likely did not want to put it to a vote because he has pledged to be a pro-LGBT president and any such vote would highlight the divide on whether transwomen are really women, and that even some in his own party aren't entirely sold on the idea - for good or for ill this is not a message he wants to be sent out.

That's the issue, that it's practicality over ideology. Sports could take a more clinical approach by having biological men play against men, or they could take the ideological approuch and say that trans women are women in all respects. Perhaps one way to remove the problem is to not have gendered sports at all. One problem with being a top-tier female sports player is that they're restricted to a small-time league for no other reason than their gender.

Many trans people are biological females and thus have no advantage over other female competitors.

It's a difficult issue that needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis.