A gun in every house is a must

[United Engiresco]

Yeah... Ever heard of terrorists? Dictators? Genocidal maniacs? Etc? No thanks. I'd prefer having no guns. The damn things are too terrible.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Yeah... Ever heard of terrorists? Dictators? Genocidal maniacs? Etc? No thanks. I'd prefer having no guns. The damn things are too terrible.

Weird take. Guns only in the hands of military and police (and maybe farmers) is best for democracy and rule of law.

I have not problem with that. Not very practical though.

[Saiwania]

But could we at least agree that in public spaces everyone has the right to know who has a gun?

I can't because I have the opposite perspective where I'd consider it more threatening to see a gun than to not see one. I'd assume that if someone is armed that ideally they'll be responsible enough to not reveal it unless they're actually defending themselves. Otherwise in most cases, a handgun should just be a security blanket where it'll be holstered unless or until real trouble of some sort breaks out.

In venues where guns aren't allowed, people can just be frisked and relinquish their weapon until they're ready to leave. Or make suitable arrangements ahead of time.

I suppose open carry vs. concealed is a thorny and difficult issue because people can go either way in terms of preference for different reasons.

[Big Jim P]

The carrier should decide which option to take. I prefer to carry concealed as it is no one elses business whether I am armed or not.

Ah. That's the thing. In the archetypal scenario that I'm walking down Main Street and I see typical bad-ass, don't take shit from nobody, urban cowboy coming towards me?

I do want to know if said badass is carrying a gun. Because I'm just "Generic guy, not nice, not nasty, minds his own business" and I have a vital interest in how likely I am to be shot dead on the street.

What does your right of privacy, when you're on a public street, matter to me?

Carrying a gun is not just a fashion statement. It's not within your rights of privacy. It means the difference between life and death, to other people on the street. How dare you claim it's only your business?

Because simply, it is.

My right to self defense trumps your right to a false sense of security.

BTW, that "badass" who may have a gun, well, he or she would not likely hesitate to use a knife, a blunt object or their hands or feet.

[Big Jim P]

Sure, it's a subjective view of myself. I try to be nice to people, but sometimes despite my best intentions, I'm nasty.

I stand aside for badasses. I wish I didn't have to, but when someone comes at me with "do what I say, or I'll fuck you up" I make a reckoning. If all they demand is "stand aside" then I do.

I'd just like to know when a swaggering punk who might demand more than "stand aside" is on my radar. I'd like to know sooner than later, so I can take a sudden interest in the flower stall, or hail a cab, or just plain turn tail and run. I'd like to know if the swaggering punk is armed with a gun, if it's all right with you.

Have you considered just not being combative? Works really well for me. I haven't had an altercation with another person since I was a teenager and decided being a dick was a really terrible way to live and stopped doing it.

Yeah, but if you are carrying a gun, you are, by definition, being a dick.

You are also a threat,a killer and you kick puppies too.

[Big Jim P]

Have you considered just not being combative? Works really well for me. I haven't had an altercation with another person since I was a teenager and decided being a dick was a really terrible way to live and stopped doing it.

You're judging me by my online persona. I am much nicer in real life, though of course I don't expect you to take my word for it.

I'd like to know if a swaggering punk is armed with a gun. I'd like the cops right on the punk, if they're carrying a concealed gun. Nothing but selfish desire not to attract attention, can justify carrying concealed without also carrying openly.

The presence of a gun immediately increases the chance I will die. My stress level goes way up when I see Police, because I know they are armed. I can handle some civilians being openly armed, because I can stay away from them (they scare me, I avoid, you must respect) but why in the living fuck should I tolerate the public spaces I must use, being peopled with others who may or may not be armed?

See it from our point of view. From the point of view of someone who is opposed on principle, or is too timid, or does not trust their weak intellect, or for any number of other reasons will not carry a gun. Other people being armed, is something we must accept by law. But other people asserting their right of privacy, in public, when the particular point of privacy is their deadly weapon they have on them?

Of course, I am opposed to general ownership of guns. I'm on the other side. But could we at least agree that in public spaces everyone has the right to know who has a gun?

You assume that carrying a gun makes someone a "swaggering punk". That would be the problem, not the person carrying the gun. Like I said originally, we need to get back to carrying a gun not being unusual.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

But could we at least agree that in public spaces everyone has the right to know who has a gun?

I can't because I have the opposite perspective where I'd consider it more threatening to see a gun than to not see one.

I don't like to see a gun either. But if people are legally allowed to carry a gun in public (for some stupid constitutional reason) then I'd rather see it, than have good reason to suspect it is there.

And yeah, I am going to disrespect the dickhead who thinks they need a gun just to go to the shops. Freedom of speech, gunsel: I'm allowed to stare at your weapons and make wanking motions. Get used to it, you carry a gun in public you will get some people legally disapproving.

I'd assume that if someone is armed that ideally they'll be responsible enough to not reveal it unless they're actually defending themselves. Otherwise in most cases, a handgun should just be a security blanket where it'll be holstered unless or until real trouble of some sort breaks out.

Yeah, I oppose. The odds that a person carrying a gun will prevent a crime, versus persons carrying a gun perpetrating a crime, are so terrible that you should be on my side: law-abiding gun carriers should all support each other by carrying openly.

In venues where guns aren't allowed, people can just be frisked and relinquish their weapon until they're ready to leave. Or make suitable arrangements ahead of time.

I'd deal with that by a two-stage process. A bouncer would ask politely if they're armed with a gun (or a knife, mace etc) and if they say no, then let them through. Then a metal-detector and if necessary a body search, and if they have a gun then, a cop would appear and arrest them.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Have you considered just not being combative? Works really well for me. I haven't had an altercation with another person since I was a teenager and decided being a dick was a really terrible way to live and stopped doing it.

You're judging me by my online persona. I am much nicer in real life, though of course I don't expect you to take my word for it.

I'd like to know if a swaggering punk is armed with a gun. I'd like the cops right on the punk, if they're carrying a concealed gun. Nothing but selfish desire not to attract attention, can justify carrying concealed without also carrying openly.

The presence of a gun immediately increases the chance I will die. My stress level goes way up when I see Police, because I know they are armed. I can handle some civilians being openly armed, because I can stay away from them (they scare me, I avoid, you must respect) but why in the living fuck should I tolerate the public spaces I must use, being peopled with others who may or may not be armed?

See it from our point of view. From the point of view of someone who is opposed on principle, or is too timid, or does not trust their weak intellect, or for any number of other reasons will not carry a gun. Other people being armed, is something we must accept by law. But other people asserting their right of privacy, in public, when the particular point of privacy is their deadly weapon they have on them?

Of course, I am opposed to general ownership of guns. I'm on the other side. But could we at least agree that in public spaces everyone has the right to know who has a gun?

I'm actually not judging you by your online persona, I'm comparing what you're saying with the ways I've seen people act irl. By your own admission sometimes you get nasty and have a reckoning every time some hardass comes your way. At least on some level you're not averse to conflict, and that's the problem. It should be the absolute and final last resort. At least in my case unless someone actually attacks me it's none of my business and I'll just go about my day. Even if they're not right I'll say they are and de-escalate and just leave.

I don't like to see a gun either. But if people are legally allowed to carry a gun in public (for some stupid constitutional reason) then I'd rather see it, than have good reason to suspect it is there.

And yeah, I am going to disrespect the dickhead who thinks they need a gun just to go to the shops. Freedom of speech, gunsel: I'm allowed to stare at your weapons and make wanking motions. Get used to it, you carry a gun in public you will get some people legally disapproving.

This actually directly ties into my above point. This is harassment and at least in some places someone could kick your ass for it and face no legal repercussions. You look for conflict, which is why I think you're scared of people carrying weapons. I don't and thus I don't care what people carry.

[Big Jim P]

You're judging me by my online persona. I am much nicer in real life, though of course I don't expect you to take my word for it.

I'd like to know if a swaggering punk is armed with a gun. I'd like the cops right on the punk, if they're carrying a concealed gun. Nothing but selfish desire not to attract attention, can justify carrying concealed without also carrying openly.

The presence of a gun immediately increases the chance I will die. My stress level goes way up when I see Police, because I know they are armed. I can handle some civilians being openly armed, because I can stay away from them (they scare me, I avoid, you must respect) but why in the living fuck should I tolerate the public spaces I must use, being peopled with others who may or may not be armed?

See it from our point of view. From the point of view of someone who is opposed on principle, or is too timid, or does not trust their weak intellect, or for any number of other reasons will not carry a gun. Other people being armed, is something we must accept by law. But other people asserting their right of privacy, in public, when the particular point of privacy is their deadly weapon they have on them?

Of course, I am opposed to general ownership of guns. I'm on the other side. But could we at least agree that in public spaces everyone has the right to know who has a gun?

I'm actually not judging you by your online persona, I'm comparing what you're saying with the ways I've seen people act irl. By your own admission sometimes you get nasty and have a reckoning every time some hardass comes your way. At least on some level you're not averse to conflict, and that's the problem. It should be the absolute and final last resort. At least in my case unless someone actually attacks me it's none of my business and I'll just go about my day. Even if they're not right I'll say they are and de-escalate and just leave.

I don't like to see a gun either. But if people are legally allowed to carry a gun in public (for some stupid constitutional reason) then I'd rather see it, than have good reason to suspect it is there.

And yeah, I am going to disrespect the dickhead who thinks they need a gun just to go to the shops. Freedom of speech, gunsel: I'm allowed to stare at your weapons and make wanking motions. Get used to it, you carry a gun in public you will get some people legally disapproving.

This actually directly ties into my above point. This is harassment and at least in some places someone could kick your ass for it and face no legal repercussions. You look for conflict, which is why I think you're scared of people carrying weapons. I don't and thus I don't care what people carry.

That is the ultimate reason gun grabbers don't want people to have or carry guns. Projection.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

That is the ultimate reason gun grabbers don't want people to have or carry guns. Projection.

Yes, very insightful. There does come a point in every man's life, where the toys of his youth are not so much fun any more. And then, hating on the haters of the toys of his youth, is more fun. We older men call that "just plain sad."

[Big Jim P]

That is the ultimate reason gun grabbers don't want people to have or carry guns. Projection.

Yes, very insightful. There does come a point in every man's life, where the toys of his youth are not so much fun any more. And then, hating on the haters of the toys of his youth, is more fun. We older men call that "just plain sad."

"Older men".

[Big Jim P]

That is the ultimate reason gun grabbers don't want people to have or carry guns. Projection.

Yes, very insightful. There does come a point in every man's life, where the toys of his youth are not so much fun any more. And then, hating on the haters of the toys of his youth, is more fun. We older men call that "just plain sad."

Now that I've had my laugh, do you have any real argument against gun ownership and carry? Backed by facts, if you please.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Yes, very insightful. There does come a point in every man's life, where the toys of his youth are not so much fun any more. And then, hating on the haters of the toys of his youth, is more fun. We older men call that "just plain sad."

Now that I've had my laugh, do you have any real argument against gun ownership and carry? Backed by facts, if you please.

I said if before. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who is armed in the public space. Your privacy is a weak defence, if you're carrying a weapon capable of killing unarmed citizens at a hundred metres. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who can kill them. That's it.

"Backed by facts" is just you not bothering to read my previous posts. I have an argument from principle and logic, so I don't need any silly "facts".

[Big Jim P]

Now that I've had my laugh, do you have any real argument against gun ownership and carry? Backed by facts, if you please.

I said if before. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who is armed in the public space. Your privacy is a weak defence, if you're carrying a weapon capable of killing unarmed citizens at a hundred metres. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who can kill them. That's it.

"Backed by facts" is just you not bothering to read my previous posts. I have an argument from principle and logic, so I don't need any silly "facts".

I will be damned. An honest gun grabber.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Now that I've had my laugh, do you have any real argument against gun ownership and carry? Backed by facts, if you please.

I said if before. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who is armed in the public space. Your privacy is a weak defence, if you're carrying a weapon capable of killing unarmed citizens at a hundred metres. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who can kill them. That's it.

"Backed by facts" is just you not bothering to read my previous posts. I have an argument from principle and logic, so I don't need any silly "facts".

Literally anyone can kill you. More Americans die per year due to being beat to death by someone else's bare hands than are killed by rifles of all kinds.

[Greater Cesnica]

Yeah... Ever heard of terrorists? Dictators? Genocidal maniacs? Etc? No thanks. I'd prefer having no guns. The damn things are too terrible.

Weird take. Guns only in the hands of military and police (and maybe farmers) is best for democracy and rule of law.

I have not problem with that. Not very practical though.

Yeah, not a fan of that.

[Greater Cesnica]

I have an argument from principle and logic, so I don't need any silly "facts".

[Saiwania]

Yeah, I oppose. The odds that a person carrying a gun will prevent a crime, versus persons carrying a gun perpetrating a crime, are so terrible that you should be on my side: law-abiding gun carriers should all support each other by carrying openly.

I want people to be conceal carrying for personal defense and not flaunting their weaponry. Perhaps it is just a cultural difference between us that is diametrically opposed or clashing. It is no one's business if someone is armed or not in my view. If there is uncertainty over if someone is armed or not, just assume that they are armed and behave yourself.

No one should step too out of line if everyone can check everyone else's conduct. Maybe it wouldn't work well in practice, but I haven't seen enough to be convinced that open carry is better than concealed carry in terms of getting people to be more responsible with the use of weapons.

Concealed carry in my mind emphasizes more restraint while open carry in my view just gets people to brag/flaunt or be more aggressive with their weapons than is necessary.

[Greater Cesnica]

Yeah, I oppose. The odds that a person carrying a gun will prevent a crime, versus persons carrying a gun perpetrating a crime, are so terrible that you should be on my side: law-abiding gun carriers should all support each other by carrying openly.

I want people to be conceal carrying for personal defense and not flaunting their weaponry. Perhaps it is just a cultural difference between us that is diametrically opposed or clashing. It is no one's business if someone is armed or not in my view. If there is uncertainty over if someone is armed or not, just assume that they are armed and behave yourself.

No one should step too out of line if everyone can check everyone else's conduct. Maybe it wouldn't work well in practice, but I haven't seen enough to be convinced that open carry is better than concealed carry in terms of getting people to be more responsible with the use of weapons.

This tbh.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I said if before. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who is armed in the public space. Your privacy is a weak defence, if you're carrying a weapon capable of killing unarmed citizens at a hundred metres. Unarmed citizens have the right to know who can kill them. That's it.

"Backed by facts" is just you not bothering to read my previous posts. I have an argument from principle and logic, so I don't need any silly "facts".

I will be damned. An honest gun grabber.

If you mean "one who would take weapons away, based on changes in the law" then yes. Something like a hundred million guns have been stockpiled by "law abiding gun owners" and this is a fault in previous law. I want to change the law, and take those guns, because the alternative is to change the law and let those gun speculators cash in, selling guns to criminals.

This is not your business now. Care for your wife and family. Do some recreational shooting and don't worry. The gun grabbers don't want your shotgun or rifle, they only want you to register the damn thing. The Great Cause of Guns is a folly of your youth. It's a battle for young men, who care about guns more than life itself. For you, it's time to move on.

[Kernen]

I will be damned. An honest gun grabber.

If you mean "one who would take weapons away, based on changes in the law" then yes. Something like a hundred million guns have been stockpiled by "law abiding gun owners" and this is a fault in previous law. I want to change the law, and take those guns, because the alternative is to change the law and let those gun speculators cash in, selling guns to criminals.

This is not your business now. Care for your wife and family. Do some recreational shooting and don't worry. The gun grabbers don't want your shotgun or rifle, they only want you to register the damn thing. The Great Cause of Guns is a folly of your youth. It's a battle for young men, who care about guns more than life itself. For you, it's time to move on.

Its a strange thing, arguing that our property and rights are no longer our business.

Its a stranger thing to think that millions of weapons that have never caused harm need to be rounded up because reasons.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I want people to be conceal carrying for personal defense and not flaunting their weaponry. Perhaps it is just a cultural difference between us that is diametrically opposed or clashing. It is no one's business if someone is armed or not in my view. If there is uncertainty over if someone is armed or not, just assume that they are armed and behave yourself.

No one should step too out of line if everyone can check everyone else's conduct. Maybe it wouldn't work well in practice, but I haven't seen enough to be convinced that open carry is better than concealed carry in terms of getting people to be more responsible with the use of weapons.

This tbh.

Not really. Concealed carry is about fear, of being shot by some other gun wielder. It's about reserving the option to shoot back, or run, according to self-defense doctrine. It's about living to fight another day.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

If you mean "one who would take weapons away, based on changes in the law" then yes. Something like a hundred million guns have been stockpiled by "law abiding gun owners" and this is a fault in previous law. I want to change the law, and take those guns, because the alternative is to change the law and let those gun speculators cash in, selling guns to criminals.

This is not your business now. Care for your wife and family. Do some recreational shooting and don't worry. The gun grabbers don't want your shotgun or rifle, they only want you to register the damn thing. The Great Cause of Guns is a folly of your youth. It's a battle for young men, who care about guns more than life itself. For you, it's time to move on.

Its a strange thing, arguing that our property and rights are no longer our business.

Its a stranger thing to think that millions of weapons that have never caused harm need to be rounded up because reasons.

Don't be silly. Government will pay a fair price for "stockpiled" weapons. The only reason to resist is an intention to profit from buying legal and selling illegal.

[Kernen]

Its a strange thing, arguing that our property and rights are no longer our business.

Its a stranger thing to think that millions of weapons that have never caused harm need to be rounded up because reasons.

Don't be silly. Government will pay a fair price for "stockpiled" weapons. The only reason to resist is an intention to profit from buying legal and selling illegal.

Alternatively, a good reason to resist is that the 'fair price' isn't worth giving up the tool.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Its a strange thing, arguing that our property and rights are no longer our business.

Its a stranger thing to think that millions of weapons that have never caused harm need to be rounded up because reasons.

Don't be silly. Government will pay a fair price for "stockpiled" weapons. The only reason to resist is an intention to profit from buying legal and selling illegal.

This is objectively not true. The government oftentimes doesn't even offer a quarter of the value a weapon is actually worth.