A gun in every house is a must

[Kernen]

Sure, but that doesn't make our approach wrong. Americans have this right. Restricting this right is a net harm to civil liberty. We only restrain civil rights to the extent necessary to prevent abuse. Ergo, we needn't over restrain the right.

And yet the abuse still happens despite there being ways to lower it.

Agreed. I think there are ways to address this. I just don't think they involve limiting the general public's access to firearms.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Truth of the matter giving a fun to everybody is a terrible idea. Educating people on how to properly use guns, making it harder to get guns, and to reform the background check system is a much better idea.

Making it harder to get a gun, in practice, disproportionately affects the poor and minorities. It should be easier to get a gun so the most vulnerable of us can secure themselves.

"In practice" meaning "given the country is so saturated with guns, that outright banning the sale of new ones would make very little difference" ..?

It's the poor and minorities who disproportionately DIE from guns (homicide anyway). But if they just had more guns, they'd be able to defend themselves and fewer would die.

Yeah, I'm sure it works like that. Massive amounts of guns, bad for the poor and minorities. Quite logical that the solution is MORE GUNS.

[SD_Film Artists]

Guns should be banned in America.

I don’t like the school shootings. I don’t like the gun crimes.

Guns need to be banned but America’s problematic democratic/presidential structure prevents any meaningful action. Citizens will just lobby to keep their guns, even though gun violence continues to harm innocents every year. It is a flaw of the American system.

Banning something doesn't stop it, people would continue to own guns, and it's not like the government has the means to take them away in the first place.

Exactly, the culture has to change as well as the laws. In other countries it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, but in America it's 'muh 2nd bear arms CoNsItUtiOn'

[Saint Yosx]

Truth of the matter giving a fun to everybody is a terrible idea. Educating people on how to properly use guns, making it harder to get guns, and to reform the background check system is a much better idea.

Making it harder to get a gun, in practice, disproportionately affects the poor and minorities. It should be easier to get a gun so the most vulnerable of us can secure themselves.

But think of it like this. According to https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodic ... ight2.html, Minorites, like African Americans are affected most by gun violence and crime, which not surprisingly make less than Whites. Having a better welfare system, more community involvement, and better education, as well as reducing guns, would help improve their conditions, and reduce crime.

[Hellslayer]

X

[Cannot think of a name]

Banning something doesn't stop it, people would continue to own guns, and it's not like the government has the means to take them away in the first place.

Exactly, the culture has to change as well as the laws. In other countries it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, but in America it's 'muh 2nd bear arms CoNsItUtiOn'

I mean, the very premise of this thread is an example of how broken our conception of guns are in this country, really.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Banning something doesn't stop it, people would continue to own guns, and it's not like the government has the means to take them away in the first place.

Exactly, the culture has to change as well as the laws. In other countries it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, but in America it's 'muh 2nd bear arms CoNsItUtiOn'

Well, no, it's not the culture anymore. You can literally make guns with the click of a button on something like an Ender 3. In another 5-10 years you'll have printers that can make steel and aluminum parts (they already exist, they're just too expensive for home use currently) and that will be the true end of gun control as a concept. Technology has far outpaced the law on this topic.

[Kernen]

Making it harder to get a gun, in practice, disproportionately affects the poor and minorities. It should be easier to get a gun so the most vulnerable of us can secure themselves.

But think of it like this. According to https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodic ... ight2.html, Minorites, like African Americans are affected most by gun violence and crime, which not surprisingly make less than Whites. Having a better welfare system, more community involvement, and better education, as well as reducing guns, would help improve their conditions, and reduce crime.

Improving all those conditions (which I heartily support as a liberally minded person) plus improving access to guns would allow them to stay safe in the immediacy and in the long term.

[Seveshka]

The nation of Seveshka supports this entirely. We are definitely pro-2nd Amendment and even support gun owners.

[SD_Film Artists]

Truth of the matter giving a fun to everybody is a terrible idea. Educating people on how to properly use guns, making it harder to get guns, and to reform the background check system is a much better idea.

Making it harder to get a gun, in practice, disproportionately affects the poor and minorities. It should be easier to get a gun so the most vulnerable of us can secure themselves.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the upper-class people in wealthy gated communities to be the only ones who have easy access to guns? They're not going to be mugging anyone as they have too much to lose and if they're doing any crime it's more likely to be tax evasion; whereas the person living in a slum may see armed mugging as a profitable enterprise. The only problem is the obvious classism involved.

[Kernen]

Making it harder to get a gun, in practice, disproportionately affects the poor and minorities. It should be easier to get a gun so the most vulnerable of us can secure themselves.

"In practice" meaning "given the country is so saturated with guns, that outright banning the sale of new ones would make very little difference" ..?

It's the poor and minorities who disproportionately DIE from guns (homicide anyway). But if they just had more guns, they'd be able to defend themselves and fewer would die.

Yeah, I'm sure it works like that. Massive amounts of guns, bad for the poor and minorities. Quite logical that the solution is MORE GUNS.

This oversimplified the problem, very nearly into a logical fallacy. It's true minorities and the poor are disproportionately killed by guns. It is not true that they disproportionately have those guns. If they did, they would not be quite as likely victims of violence. Especially when paired with progressive efforts to reduce their economic and political burdens.

[FNU]

Banning something doesn't stop it, people would continue to own guns, and it's not like the government has the means to take them away in the first place.

Exactly, the culture has to change as well as the laws. In other countries it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, but in America it's 'muh 2nd bear arms CoNsItUtiOn'

Agreed. American gun culture has been around for as long as the states have, consider that a few of them were known to tinker with weapons. Alongside that significant and ridiculous shift in culture, you'd need lawmakers to agree to an amendment, which would likely fail if I'm being blunt.

[Kernen]

Making it harder to get a gun, in practice, disproportionately affects the poor and minorities. It should be easier to get a gun so the most vulnerable of us can secure themselves.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the upper-class people in wealthy gated communities to be the only ones who have easy access to guns? They're not going to be mugging anyone as they have too much to lose and if they're doing any crime it's more likely to be tax evasion; whereas the person living in a slum may see armed mugging as a profitable enterprise. The only problem is the obvious classism involved.

Despite being one of those privileged members of society, I can't say I agree. Rights are rights for all. Not just for some. Otherwise they're privileges.

[Torisakia]

You never specified that it had to be a real gun, so Nerf guns for all.

[Saint Yosx]

Let me give you a senarcio, we have a man named John who got arrested for selling weed. Now he was put into jail. Not only are his chances of committing the same crime even higher, but he is more likely to commit a even more serious crime in the future like Murder. So legalizing Marijuana and other such drugs that are little to no harm would insure that people don’t get involved in crime and therefor don’t go on to commit violent crimes. Guns are not answer.

[Cannot think of a name]

Exactly, the culture has to change as well as the laws. In other countries it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, but in America it's 'muh 2nd bear arms CoNsItUtiOn'

Agreed. American gun culture has been around for as long as the states have, consider that a few of them were known to tinker with weapons. Alongside that significant and ridiculous shift in culture, you'd need lawmakers to agree to an amendment, which would likely fail if I'm being blunt.

I wonder if it's a good metaphor for trauma. The constitution was written by a bunch of white dudes, half of which owned people, all of which lived on land that once had a native population on it that was still like, right there. And in fact the whole war they fought was because they didn't want to pay the tax to cover the cost of moving them out forcibly, and the people they just fought with to make their own country still had settlements just to the north and all of that is on top of there not being a whole heaping of ranching going on that a lot of them outside of the meager cities that did exist actually had to both hunt and shoot not just the various other groups of people they either just pissed off or have been pissing off the entire time but also indigenous species that didn't give a fuck what coat you wore.

Given all that of course they wanted a bunch of guns. While some of those situations changed more than they 'got better' per se, it's still not the same world.

[Kernen]

Let me give you a senarcio, we have a man named John who got arrested for selling weed. Now he was put into jail. Not only are his chances of committing the same crime even higher, but he is more likely to commit a even more serious crime in the future like Murder. So legalizing Marijuana and other such drugs that are little to no harm would insure that people don’t get involved in crime and therefor don’t go on to commit violent crimes. Guns are not answer.

If you legalize weed and let our boy John have a gun, John won't go to jail and can keep himself safe from those that might wish him ill. Do both.

[Cannot think of a name]

Let me give you a senarcio, we have a man named John who got arrested for selling weed. Now he was put into jail. Not only are his chances of committing the same crime even higher, but he is more likely to commit a even more serious crime in the future like Murder. So legalizing Marijuana and other such drugs that are little to no harm would insure that people don’t get involved in crime and therefor don’t go on to commit violent crimes. Guns are not answer.

I'm a big fan of legalization and not serial punishment usually of minorities under the guise of a 'war on drugs', but I've known a fair amount of people picked up for selling weed who didn't jump right to murder. That was a weird connection to make.

[Saint Yosx]

Let me give you a senarcio, we have a man named John who got arrested for selling weed. Now he was put into jail. Not only are his chances of committing the same crime even higher, but he is more likely to commit a even more serious crime in the future like Murder. So legalizing Marijuana and other such drugs that are little to no harm would insure that people don’t get involved in crime and therefor don’t go on to commit violent crimes. Guns are not answer.

If you legalize weed and let our boy John have a gun, John won't go to jail and can keep himself safe from those that might wish him ill. Do both.

Well if John really wanted a gun he would wait the amount of time (it should take at least 3-5 weeks) and after receiving trading and a background check he would have a gun. Guns are not and I just think it shouldn’t be as easy as one two three to get them.

[Cannot think of a name]

You never specified that it had to be a real gun, so Nerf guns for all.

And just like that, I'm on board.

[Insaanistan]

You never specified that it had to be a real gun, so Nerf guns for all.

This we can all get behind!

[Kernen]

If you legalize weed and let our boy John have a gun, John won't go to jail and can keep himself safe from those that might wish him ill. Do both.

Well if John really wanted a gun he would wait the amount of time (it should take at least 3-5 weeks) and after receiving trading and a background check he would have a gun. Guns are not and I just think it shouldn’t be as easy as one two three to get them.

Why should it take that long?

And why train people? You truly don't need more than a review of the operators manual to safely keep and store a gun.

[Saint Yosx]

Let me give you a senarcio, we have a man named John who got arrested for selling weed. Now he was put into jail. Not only are his chances of committing the same crime even higher, but he is more likely to commit a even more serious crime in the future like Murder. So legalizing Marijuana and other such drugs that are little to no harm would insure that people don’t get involved in crime and therefor don’t go on to commit violent crimes. Guns are not answer.

I'm a big fan of legalization and not serial punishment usually of minorities under the guise of a 'war on drugs', but I've known a fair amount of people picked up for selling weed who didn't jump right to murder. That was a weird connection to make.

Well since it’s illegal, among other things like Murder, smuggled goods, etc, John under a Illegal weed government would be interacting and be working with most likely people who have committed more serious crimes. The best example of this was during the prohibition where people who smuggled Alcoholic drinks worked with crime bosses who killed people.

[The Chuck]

Let me give you a senarcio, we have a man named John who got arrested for selling weed. Now he was put into jail. Not only are his chances of committing the same crime even higher, but he is more likely to commit a even more serious crime in the future like Murder. So legalizing Marijuana and other such drugs that are little to no harm would insure that people don’t get involved in crime and therefor wrong go on to commit violent crimes. Guns are not answer.

I've talked about this before elsewhere but social reform and decriminalization of drugs definitely will help. However, as a first generation immigrant to America, I and anyone else coming to America in the pursuit of our own forms of the American dream understand that life isn't a bowl of cherries. Many immigrants trying to get into the US both documented and undocumented come from backgrounds of violence where violence against us and not having the means to defend ourselves led to us being driven out of our homes.

When many poorer immigrants first get to America, they usually settle down in inner city areas and have to deal with the current socio-economic issues stemming from decades of single party mayorships. Along with this, depending on where the immigrant is from, they could face racial prejudice from those who have been in the area longer and could have violence aimed at them. The right to own a firearm (or several... dozen...) enables individuals like these to protect themselves, their livelihoods, and their dreams from others who would seek to destroy one of if not all three of these.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well if John really wanted a gun he would wait the amount of time (it should take at least 3-5 weeks) and after receiving trading and a background check he would have a gun. Guns are not and I just think it shouldn’t be as easy as one two three to get them.

Why should it take that long?

And why train people? You truly don't need more than a review of the operators manual to safely keep and store a gun.

I'm not on the gun train, but the manual will tell you how to turn your BMW on, put it in gear, and operate the infotainment screen, but a weekend at the Bondurant school will teach you how to really drive it.

Since it's a BMW, though, no amount of training will teach you to use the fucking turn signal...