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American Politics III: New President, Same Old Country

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Cannot think of a name
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:25 pm


A bunch of people whose professional existence has been built around being an asshole start updating their resumes...
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Ex-Nation

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:25 pm

☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Rocker & Metalhead ☆ Heretical Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
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Nekostan-e Gharbi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:28 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Silvedania wrote:No, they don't have to. You can acknowledge Taiwan and support nations working together for the greater good even if those nations don't acknowledge Taiwan. I think.


The World Health Organization should be mature and not play politics. This is a HEALTH organization and not a military organization. Why don't they care about Taiwan citizens or value them as much? Tell the PRC in a polite way that you will admit the ROC and tell the ROC that the PRC will also be a member. Let both countries (yes-I think they are both countries) decide if they can accept those terms. Same goes for the UN.

Why should the USA support an organization that is so disrespectful to an ally?


All international organizations need to permanently ban China. Otherwise they are not worth being in. US should not support an organization that does not admit Taiwan but admits China.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:28 pm


Trump 2016: "We're gonna build a wall!"

Biden 2021: "lolno."
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Shrillland
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Posts: 21057
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:28 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Silvedania wrote:No, they don't have to. You can acknowledge Taiwan and support nations working together for the greater good even if those nations don't acknowledge Taiwan. I think.


The World Health Organization should be mature and not play politics. This is a HEALTH organization and not a military organization. Why don't they care about Taiwan citizens or value them as much? Tell the PRC in a polite way that you will admit the ROC and tell the ROC that the PRC will also be a member. Let both countries (yes-I think they are both countries) decide if they can accept those terms. Same goes for the UN.

Why should the USA support an organization that is so disrespectful to an ally?



Diplomacy and geopolitics are amoral by their very nature. Taiwan knows that the US has to abide by these rules because the alternative is PRC conquest leading to WW3 and nuclear armageddon, which is messy and unpopular.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
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Valrifell
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:29 pm

The New California Republic wrote:

Trump 2016: "We're gonna build a wall!"

Biden 2021: "lolno."


Remember when people thought that would happen? Fun times.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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Freiheit Reich
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Ex-Nation

Postby Freiheit Reich » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:30 pm

Esalia wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Why was he an idiot for doing that? General name calling doesn't tell us much.

The USA needs to pull out of any nation that refuses to treat Taiwan as equally as the PRC. This includes the UN.

Why Trump is totally right to put US funding for WHO on hold

https://nypost.com/2020/04/15/why-trump ... o-on-hold/

Taiwan accuses WHO of downplaying coronavirus toll in China

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/taiwan-ac ... d-reports/

Why Taiwan has become a problem for WHO

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52088167


Which hands those organisations over to the PRC, thereby basically guaranteeing that Taiwan will never be part of them so long as the PRC is the biggest powerhouse in that organisation.

If the USA really wants to get Taiwan included in those organisations, waiving its influence to those organisations is not the way to go. It's better off levying its influence to pressure those organisations into including Taiwan, and forming a coalition to push for greater inclusion of Taiwan in those organisations (or if it somehow has the influence necessary, making its own version that includes Taiwan and trying to encourage more countries to join it not the other organisation).


Perhaps the USA could form its own parallel organization (if talking with WHO fails) and invite both the ROC and the PRC (and other nations) to join and see if they accept. If you can't beat 'em, create a new and better (or at least fairer) organization.

The USA is only one nation and many nations care more about money than principles and don't want to hurt the feelings of the PRC just to please a respectful but small nation. I doubt the USA could change most nations' minds on this and even the USA is afraid of the PRC.
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Andsed
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Posts: 13084
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Andsed » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:30 pm

Valrifell wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Trump 2016: "We're gonna build a wall!"

Biden 2021: "lolno."


Remember when people thought that would happen? Fun times.

I remember when I used to love the idea of the wall. How naive and stupid I was.
I do be tired


LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:30 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
The World Health Organization should be mature and not play politics. This is a HEALTH organization and not a military organization. Why don't they care about Taiwan citizens or value them as much? Tell the PRC in a polite way that you will admit the ROC and tell the ROC that the PRC will also be a member. Let both countries (yes-I think they are both countries) decide if they can accept those terms. Same goes for the UN.

Why should the USA support an organization that is so disrespectful to an ally?



Diplomacy and geopolitics are amoral by their very nature. Taiwan knows that the US has to abide by these rules because the alternative is PRC conquest leading to WW3 and nuclear armageddon, which is messy and unpopular.


Czechoslovakia knows that UK has to abide by these rules because the alternative is German conquest leading to WW2 and genocide which is messy and unpopular.

Appeasing a totalitarian power leads to more, not less dead humans.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Posts: 5496
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:30 pm

Valrifell wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Trump 2016: "We're gonna build a wall!"

Biden 2021: "lolno."


Remember when people thought that would happen? Fun times.


Man some people thought/still think it did happen lmao.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Rocker & Metalhead ☆ Heretical Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
Ես Արցախի կողքին եմ
Wanted Fugitive of the Chinese Communist Party
Unapologetic stan for Lana Beniko - #1 Sith Waifu

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Valrifell
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Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:31 pm

Andsed wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Remember when people thought that would happen? Fun times.

I remember when I used to love the idea of the wall. How naive and stupid I was.


You shouldn't be mean to yourself for developing as a person.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58260
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:31 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Remember when people thought that would happen? Fun times.


Man some people thought/still think it did happen lmao.

Guys this is How Trump can still build the wall.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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Aeritai
Minister
 
Posts: 2208
Founded: Oct 25, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Aeritai » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:32 pm

Stellar Colonies wrote:Oh, Cody.


Wait... Is AltHistory conservative? Just curious because I don't think he ever mentioned his political beliefs.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:32 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Shrillland wrote:

Diplomacy and geopolitics are amoral by their very nature. Taiwan knows that the US has to abide by these rules because the alternative is PRC conquest leading to WW3 and nuclear armageddon, which is messy and unpopular.


Czechoslovakia knows that UK has to abide by these rules because the alternative is German conquest leading to WW2 and genocide which is messy and unpopular.

Appeasing a totalitarian power leads to more, not less dead humans.


War is a different beast than it was back then. Nuclear war can only lead to extinction.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2023
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:32 pm

Aeritai wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Oh, Cody.


Wait... Is AltHistory conservative? Just curious because I don't think he ever mentioned his political beliefs.


Iirc you can kind of tell he doesn't really like Democrats or Trump that much, afaik he's more a #bothsame centrist sort or maybe an "I'm a centrist" conservative.
Last edited by Valrifell on Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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Aeritai
Minister
 
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Founded: Oct 25, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Aeritai » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:33 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Aeritai wrote:
Wait... Is AltHistory conservative? Just curious because I don't think he ever mentioned his political beliefs.


Iirc you can kind of tell he doesn't really like Democrats or Trump that much, afaik he's more a #bothsame centrist sort or maybe an "I'm a centrist" conservative.


Ah okay.
Last edited by Aeritai on Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just call me Aeri
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The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58260
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:33 pm

Aeritai wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Oh, Cody.


Wait... Is AltHistory conservative? Just curious because I don't think he ever mentioned his political beliefs.

I dont think so, i think its more a joke about a possible civil war since Buchannan was president prior to the war
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:34 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Czechoslovakia knows that UK has to abide by these rules because the alternative is German conquest leading to WW2 and genocide which is messy and unpopular.

Appeasing a totalitarian power leads to more, not less dead humans.


War is a different beast than it was back then. Nuclear war can only lead to extinction.


China does not have enough nukes to exterminate humans now. We don’t want WWIII when they can.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

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Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13084
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Andsed » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:34 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Man some people thought/still think it did happen lmao.

Guys this is How Trump can still build the wall.

Breaking News: Former President Trump seen gluing bricks together at the border.

Valrifell wrote:
Andsed wrote:I remember when I used to love the idea of the wall. How naive and stupid I was.


You shouldn't be mean to yourself for developing as a person.

I could. but who I would be if I did not bully myself over things I have either grown from or no one really cares about any more?
I do be tired


LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Shrillland
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21057
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:35 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
War is a different beast than it was back then. Nuclear war can only lead to extinction.


China does not have enough nukes to exterminate humans now. We don’t want WWIII when they can.


By itself, no, but China wouldn't be alone, either. Russia and North Korea would side with them, and combined, they do have enough. If it was just China, then maybe a war could be successful after a very long slog with a lot of allies, but China is by no means alone in the world.
Last edited by Shrillland on Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2023
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:35 pm

China bans a bunch of Trump's ex-cabinet from doing business with the country

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
Trade adviser Peter Navarro.
National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien.
Diplomat for East Asia David Stilwell.
Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger.
Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar.
Undersecretary of State for Economic Growth Keith Krach.
Ambassador to the United Nations Kelly Craft.
National Security Advisor John Bolton.
Chief strategist Steve Bannon.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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Freiheit Reich
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5510
Founded: May 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Freiheit Reich » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:40 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
It is a fair question. I would actually favor immigration treaties that would allow citizens of different nations to work in the USA as long as US citizens can work there. It works fairly well in the EU. It should be between nations with similar incomes first (ex. the USA and Canada and Argentina and Chile and possibly Mexico if they secure their southern border).

I just dislike the idea that the USA has to accept everybody but many nations make it hard for Americans to move and work there. It is pretty easy for a French citizen to move to Germany and work there. It is not so easy for a US citizen to go to Germany and work there. It is possible but definitely not as easy.

The immigration treaties might also build better relationships between the nations.


Maybe though I don’t think it will change much. Segregationist cultures will remain segregationist, albeit more polite. Germany and Japan are still going to be Germany and Japan lol. Moreover the most interesting and technologically most advanced cultures are usually pretty segregationist..


Argentina and Chile are quite multicultural (as is Canada). In this way, these nations could be good to form such treaties with because they already have cultures fairly used to immigrants. Japan and China might not like the idea of having 50 million Americans of various races moving there in the next year because it would be a huge shock to their racial balance (these nations are less diverse and might worry more about losing their cultures).

Bonus: the culture in many other nations in the western hemisphere (including the ones I mentioned) tends to be compatible with the USA vs. the difference between the culture in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia vs. the USA. An Argentinian moving to the USA would likely be more accepting of the fact that the USA has various religions and that women are expected to be treated equally, etc... It would be easier to start gradually before inviting the whole world to freely enter. It is like slowly wading in the cold lake vs. jumping right in.

Same goes for Americans moving to Argentina as opposed to Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan (not saying they can't have a treaty later-one day they may have more religious tolerance of religious minorities).

The EU also gradually added more nations instead of just letting all of them in one year.
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 3.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.87

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:42 pm

https://www.adn.com/politics/2021/01/20 ... ignatures/

Organizers pushing for a recall of Alaska Governor Mike Dunleavy need to get 22000 more signatures. There is no deadline for when they have to submit them.

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Major-Tom
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15670
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:44 pm



Thank god. Toxic workplaces are so commonplace in the political world, especially at that level. I've seen a slew of campaigns that fail solely because the upper management treats their interns and volunteers like total dogshit.

On a niche level, I'm really happy about how Biden handles stuff like that. He's always had a reputation as one of the friendlier bosses in the political sphere.

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:44 pm

[url-https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1352035275824910339?s=19]Next EO: actually implementing SCOTUS' LGBT-nondiscrimination ruling[/url]
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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