American Politics III: New President, Same Old Country

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Am I missing something here?

Proposition 25, officially the Referendum to Overturn a 2018 Law That Replaced Money Bail System with A System Based on Public Safety Risk, is a California ballot proposition that appeared on the ballot for the general election on November 3, 2020.[1] The "no" side prevailed, resulting in retention of the system of cash bail in the state.[2]

Failing to overturn the law, should leave the law in place?

We're a schizophrenic state (despite everyone in their two minute hate of California thinking we're a hive mind communist state.

In 2018 we got rid of that shit.

California will become the first state in the nation to abolish bail for suspects awaiting trial under a sweeping reform bill signed by Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday.

An overhaul of the state's bail system has been in the works for years, and became an inevitability earlier this year when a California appellate court declared the state's cash bail system unconstitutional. The new law goes into effect in October 2019.

"Today, California reforms its bail system so that rich and poor alike are treated fairly," Brown said in a statement, moments after signing the California Money Bail Reform Act.

The governor has waited nearly four decades to revamp the state's cash bail system. In his 1979 State of the State Address, Brown argued the existing process was biased, favoring the wealthy who can afford to pay for their freedom, and penalizing the poor, who often are forced to remain in custody.

But two years later...

Wait, you may be thinking, didn’t California already end cash bail? The answer is yes, legislation was passed, and no, it’s not in effect. Here’s a quick primer on where things stand.

The passage of Senate Bill 10

In August 2018, then-Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation that would have abolished the state’s current money bail system, and replaced it with one that grants judges greater power to decide who should remain incarcerated before trial.

Passage of the historic legislation further positioned California as a leader in criminal justice reform. It also marked a decades-in-the-making victory for Brown, who had first called cash bail a “tax on poor people” in his 1979 State of the State address. Advocates for reform have long argued that money bail furthers racial and economic inequities in the criminal justice system and favors the wealthy.

But the law also spelled disaster for the bail industry at large. Los Angeles is home to the largest jail system in the country, and California accounts for roughly a quarter of the nation’s multibillion-dollar bail market. (In an interesting aside: Only two countries in the world have a money bail system reliant on commercial bail bondsmen — the United States and the Philippines.)

Then this bullshit happened:

Lex Steppling and his team of criminal justice activists knew they wanted to undo California’s law abolishing cash bail. They said it would merely replace one oppressive system with another, worsen racial inequities and give too much power to algorithms and judges.

They were convinced they were right. But he didn’t think they’d actually defeat Proposition 25 — especially not by a nearly 11-point margin.

“We didn’t expect to win, let alone win by so much,” Steppling said in an interview. “I’m still wrapping my head around that part.”

Which I guess is leading to more of this bullshit:

Proposition 25’s failure will likely cast a long shadow on justice reform in California. Lawmakers are barred from taking another crack at cash bail that is similar to the one voted down Tuesday. They might also be hesitant to take it up again, saying the voters have already spoken.

That has longtime advocates on edge.

“You fear what you think you can’t change,” said Sam Lewis, head of the Anti-Recidivism Coalition, among the most active criminal justice reform organizations in California. Lewis, who was released in prison in 2012 after serving 24 years, was among the fiercest supporters of Proposition 25. He said he thought the killing of George Floyd would have made people want to dismantle the system now more than ever.

“Instead,” Lewis said, “we kept a system that’s steeped in racism and criminalizes poor, black and brown people because we were afraid.”
What happens next?

Steppling’s organization says it has a plan to improve the jail system from the ground up. It’s unclear how exactly that plan would roll out and how much it could be deployed in counties across the state.

The replacement, he said, “does not begin and end in Sacramento.”

“If we let our sense of possibility be mediated by electeds, we would never get anywhere,” Steppling said. “We have to create a roadmap to something different, and then actually organize and do that work and build community pressure.”

Steppling said his group will work to replicate programs in other places like the one they helped push in Los Angeles County calling for jail diversion programs.

County-by-county, they plan to push a plan called Preserving the Presumption of Innocence. The plan calls for non-law-enforcement groups to evaluate people’s risk, counties to collect better data, and law enforcement to only detain people accused of serious or violent felonies. It is modeled, in part, from the bail reform law voters shot down Tuesday.

Sen. Robert Hertzberg, D-Los Angeles, who wrote SB 10 and has championed bail reform, was unconvinced that Steppling’s work would be successful. He said his yearslong effort that culminated with Proposition 25 was, in fact, a grassroots effort with people across the state. It prompted new county-level public safety assessment programs and was the type of sweeping change to state law that is needed for a broken system.

“The only way to solve this is at a statewide level,” he said. “You can’t fix the bail system on a county by county basis. It just doesn’t work. It has no legal authority.”

State-level bail fights aren’t over. The California Supreme Court has a case pending that would force judges to consider a defendant’s ability to pay bail before setting it. The Humphrey case could force a reckoning about how high bail is set, eroding some of the industry’s profits. It’s why Hertzberg said that, despite Proposition 25 failing, the bail industry “is on life support and the oxygen is running out of their tank.”

So...you know...California politics.

You said you were confused? You don't seem very confused.

I think your problem is that that system combining regular laws, with referendum laws, is a bit TOO flexible. Laws can be attacked before they're "bedded in" and the voters can see if they're better or not. Kind of like the mid-term effect, but with individual laws not whole governments.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I remember my mom buying one a couple years ago. It...did not help her neck pain at all. So it's not a good product either.

that seems to have been the consensus of much of the thread, yes
mediocrity at best

You have to admire the marketing though. 100% placebo effect, tested by the consumer while asleep.

Seriously. There are many effective sleep aids that work by placebo effect. If that was the only claim ("it will help you sleep") of MyPillow, I wouldn't have a problem with their marketing.

"It will help treat cancer" or any such. Fuck no, that's illegal.

[Kowani]

The FBI has now charged the woman accused of trying to sell Pelosi's laptop to Russia

[Cannot think of a name]

We're a schizophrenic state (despite everyone in their two minute hate of California thinking we're a hive mind communist state.

In 2018 we got rid of that shit.

But two years later...

Then this bullshit happened:

Which I guess is leading to more of this bullshit:

So...you know...California politics.

You said you were confused? You don't seem very confused.

I think your problem is that that system combining regular laws, with referendum laws, is a bit TOO flexible. Laws can be attacked before they're "bedded in" and the voters can see if they're better or not. Kind of like the mid-term effect, but with individual laws not whole governments.

Well, yeah. I think overall we need some sort of cooling system that puts some brakes on shit, because we have a tendency to approach governance the same way I approached my only karate tournament...just run screaming towards something flailing and then waiting for someone to sort out if someone hit anything, go back, think we're going to work through each move next time and instead just run screaming at it again. It's how we legalize pot, but also ban gay marriage and sustain the death penalty and elect an Austrian action star as our governor because we didn't want to pay part of our car registration fees.

I don't know what that system would be, but something that goes, "Alright, well...let's see if you still want this in a month, okay?" or something. I don't know.

[Nakena]

The FBI has now charged the woman accused of trying to sell Pelosi's laptop to Russia

Thats an interesting case. I wonder where that video of her with the mask and rifle is originating from. Because supposedly she has wiped all her social media profiles.

I wonder if Trump will try to declassify anything...

Two more days...

Could be interesting.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The FBI has now charged the woman accused of trying to sell Pelosi's laptop to Russia

Thats an interesting case. I wonder where that video of her with the mask and rifle is originating from. Because supposedly she has wiped all her social media profiles.

Just because you delete it doesn't mean its gone. If you've ever had social media that stuff is probably out there forever.

[Kowani]

The FBI has now charged the woman accused of trying to sell Pelosi's laptop to Russia

Thats an interesting case. I wonder where that video of her with the mask and rifle is originating from. Because supposedly she has wiped all her social media profiles.

I'll dig around and let you know if i find anything

also, Liz Cheney's been censured

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

The FBI has now charged the woman accused of trying to sell Pelosi's laptop to Russia

Probably should have started her career in crime, with a little internet scamming, or maybe trading stolen goods to her friends. Going hard for Jane Bond Kicking Kremlin Kommissas has probably just handed the Russians one of their spies back.

[Nakena]

The FBI has now charged the woman accused of trying to sell Pelosi's laptop to Russia

Probably should have started her career in crime, with a little internet scamming, or maybe trading stolen goods to her friends. Going hard for Jane Bond Kicking Kremlin Kommissas has probably just handed the Russians one of their spies back.

She's a registred nurse and the FBI indictment does not list espionage. The laptop-russia story is based on a single witness report (W1) who claims to be a romantic former partner. So it could be just a random or ex trying to trashtalk her.

[Bombadil]

also, Liz Cheney's been censured

At a state level the GOP seems thoroughly appropriated by Trump conspiracy. Time for Glenn Beck to return with his Tea Party shenanigans and 'I'm just asking questions..' schtick.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

You said you were confused? You don't seem very confused.

I think your problem is that that system combining regular laws, with referendum laws, is a bit TOO flexible. Laws can be attacked before they're "bedded in" and the voters can see if they're better or not. Kind of like the mid-term effect, but with individual laws not whole governments.

Well, yeah. I think overall we need some sort of cooling system that puts some brakes on shit, because we have a tendency to approach governance the same way I approached my only karate tournament...just run screaming towards something flailing and then waiting for someone to sort out if someone hit anything, go back, think we're going to work through each move next time and instead just run screaming at it again. It's how we legalize pot, but also ban gay marriage and sustain the death penalty and elect an Austrian action star as our governor because we didn't want to pay part of our car registration fees.

I don't know what that system would be, but something that goes, "Alright, well...let's see if you still want this in a month, okay?" or something. I don't know.

I can see the value in voters being able to repeal a law as quickly as possible. Some laws are just that bad, that you know they'll never become popular. How about a higher bar for such "emergency repeals" like 66%. But if the voters can wait 3 or 4 years, they can repeal with just 50%.

Referendum laws I would make them wait a full 4 years to repeal or modify. However, because those can be dreadful too, they could be repealed or modified by the legislature, with the same 66% bar within four years.

I think 3 years is best, considering the pace of everything nowadays. But 4 years is good and fits better with legislative and governor terms.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Probably should have started her career in crime, with a little internet scamming, or maybe trading stolen goods to her friends. Going hard for Jane Bond Kicking Kremlin Kommissas has probably just handed the Russians one of their spies back.

She's a registred nurse and the FBI indictment does not list espionage. The laptop-russia story is based on a single witness report (W1) who claims to be a romantic former partner. So it could be just a random or ex trying to trashtalk her.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know she was one of your friends.

Still, any protester who entered the Capitol that day is a dumb criminal to me.

[Freiheit Reich]

My ideal America is an America that one can be proud of without having to justify that pride.

Something which has not existed for at least 40 years, if it ever did.

40 years? So the america of 1980 for example? I mean i get what you mean but even if you go back to that time, it isnt really what you think what it was. It's a glorified and mostly imaginary past. At least as far as you given views go. Ironically enough the time of your ideal america would be probably be closer to the early Obama years. Which was however, as it turned out, only a transitional phase.

You forget that Reagan was charismatic and powerful. 49/50 states voted for him in 1984. Rocky defeated Ivan Drago in 1985 and the Soviets actually cheered Rocky on. The USA dominated the 1984 Summer Olympics (held in Los Angeles) winning 83/190 gold metals and 174/474 metals overall. Reagan demanded Gorbachav tear down the wall in 1987 and 2 years later, the wall was torn down. The USA was the envy was the world in the 1980's (despite problems with crime and crack). 1980 was bad but Reagan helped the USA improve a lot in the 1980's which is why he is so loved by many (not me but I can see why many love him). Don't forget that the USA reached its peak for music that decade and it was decent for movies and fashion as well. Also, more people drove smaller cars and obesity rates were much lower versus today. Of course, inflation was a problem. There is no perfect decade.

[Nakena]

She's a registred nurse and the FBI indictment does not list espionage. The laptop-russia story is based on a single witness report (W1) who claims to be a romantic former partner. So it could be just a random or ex trying to trashtalk her.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know she was one of your friends.

Still, any protester who entered the Capitol that day is a dumb criminal to me.

No she isnt a friend of mine. I am just following her case. Seems to be one of the more interesting figures now since the horned Qhaman has been put behind bars.

[Luminesa]

40 years? So the america of 1980 for example? I mean i get what you mean but even if you go back to that time, it isnt really what you think what it was. It's a glorified and mostly imaginary past. At least as far as you given views go. Ironically enough the time of your ideal america would be probably be closer to the early Obama years. Which was however, as it turned out, only a transitional phase.

You forget that Reagan was charismatic and powerful. 49/50 states voted for him in 1984. Rocky defeated Ivan Drago in 1985 and the Soviets actually cheered Rocky on. The USA dominated the 1984 Summer Olympics (held in Los Angeles) winning 83/190 gold metals and 174/474 metals overall. Reagan demanded Gorbachav tear down the wall in 1987 and 2 years later, the wall was torn down. The USA was the envy was the world in the 1980's (despite problems with crime and crack). 1980 was bad but Reagan helped the USA improve a lot in the 1980's which is why he is so loved by many (not me but I can see why many love him). Don't forget that the USA reached its peak for music that decade and it was decent for movies and fashion as well. Also, more people drove smaller cars and obesity rates were much lower versus today. Of course, inflation was a problem. There is no perfect decade.

Peak music in the 80's...ehhhhh...I'd debate you on that, personally.

[Kowani]

Wyoming GOP chair claims that Western states are 'paying attention' to Texas effort to secede

efforts that are doomed to fail

though the conservative media sphere seems to be taking it as him floating the possibility of secession...

[Senkaku]

Thats an interesting case. I wonder where that video of her with the mask and rifle is originating from. Because supposedly she has wiped all her social media profiles.

I'll dig around and let you know if i find anything

also, Liz Cheney's been censured

In the recent history of the GOP, the people in state parties are a prelude to the next generation of people at the national level, so buckle up for 2022 everyone

[Comerciante]

I'm not ready for 2021, how am I supposed to be getting ready for 2022?

[Bombadil]

Wyoming GOP chair claims that Western states are 'paying attention' to Texas effort to secede

efforts that are doomed to fail

though the conservative media sphere seems to be taking it as him floating the possibility of secession...

I’m partial to allowing Florida secede and all the Trumpists can flock over and have their Trumpian paradise and the rest of America can get by I guess.

[Kowani]

Washington state lawmakers introduce bill to automatically grant those convicted of felonies the right to vote upon leaving custody

[Picairn]

Washington state lawmakers introduce bill to automatically grant those convicted of felonies the right to vote upon leaving custody

Good, those who have served their time should be restored the right to vote upon release.

[Comerciante]

Washington state lawmakers introduce bill to automatically grant those convicted of felonies the right to vote upon leaving custody

Good, those who have served their time should be restored the right to vote upon release.

Wait... ya mean they couldn't before now? really?

[Kowani]

Good, those who have served their time should be restored the right to vote upon release.

Wait... ya mean they couldn't before now? really?

not sure if it's up to date, but it should be pretty close

[Genivaria]

Good, those who have served their time should be restored the right to vote upon release.

Wait... ya mean they couldn't before now? really?

Yes in alot of states the right to vote is void if you have a criminal record.

[San Lumen]

Wyoming GOP chair claims that Western states are 'paying attention' to Texas effort to secede

efforts that are doomed to fail

though the conservative media sphere seems to be taking it as him floating the possibility of secession...

I doubt that goes anywhere. This stuff is going to be used against them and they will find it increasingly difficult to win elections.