American Politics III: New President, Same Old Country

[The Reformed American Republic]

This was a case of deep institutional bias.

I have to agree. I'm not leftist, but I guarantee if another group did this, it would have turned out differently, though it doesn't help that there are traitors in the Congress.

[Vapormancer]

I was referring to the people we have spent trillions on to rescue them in just this sort of situation since 9/11. I was not referring to your dramatized acts of heroism they printed in the Volkischer Beobachter. The system failed for three hours and a group of normies was allowed to do whatever they pleased. The entire capitol will now have to be swept for bugs. Multiple high ranking Senators had their laptops taken and we all know how good the US Government is at cyber security LOL. Calls for help went unheeded, Capitol Police abandoned their posts. The FBI building was a few blocks away, they could have sprung to the rescue! It was a total meltdown of the supposedly most powerful country in the world. The people in charge of the machine found out their cogs don't give a fuck about them. Its a hell of a medicine. I'll even spoon feed you a source from something of your political milieu because I am generous and forgiving man.

Lessons haven't been learned at all otherwise they would not be panicking about the loyalty of the troops or secret service. As they are no doubt now finding out, when you terrify everyone into silence and start rolling heads, suddenly it is very hard to identify who is or isn't a crazy. Oops.

Edit: Let us not forget too the optics of the invincible halls of power being toppled.

The Capitol police turned down offers of support because, hey, white people are peaceful.. and the National Guard weren't called in because the president was too busy eating popcorn watching events on live TV to make that call, and apparently it would be 'bad optics' to have armed confrontation during an inauguration.

This was a case of deep institutional bias.

Ah, you keep repeating that thing about it only being white people. Why is this myth so important to you? Infact, better yet, what in the left-liberal worldview makes them have to rationalize everything through the white supremacist view.

Regarding your total dodge, refute then the Politico article if you would. Also please explain why nobody else in the multi-trillion dollar system stepped up to save the system? Also, your Volkischer Beobachter anecdotes aside, how do you reconcile the total failure and its impact on the worldstage? As well, address the security failures re stolen laptops and the Capitol having to do a giant drill regarding checking for bugs and key loggers. Don't dodge. Answer :^)

[Bombadil]

The Capitol police turned down offers of support because, hey, white people are peaceful.. and the National Guard weren't called in because the president was too busy eating popcorn watching events on live TV to make that call, and apparently it would be 'bad optics' to have armed confrontation during an inauguration.

This was a case of deep institutional bias.

Note: The Capitol Police requested Nat. Guard backup 6 times and were denied

Bad optics..

However they denied support themselves when offered prior to the events, it's only when the reality of the inevitable occurred that they reached out for assistance.

[Nakena]

The Capitol police turned down offers of support because, hey, white people are peaceful.. and the National Guard weren't called in because the president was too busy eating popcorn watching events on live TV to make that call, and apparently it would be 'bad optics' to have armed confrontation during an inauguration.

This was a case of deep institutional bias.

Note: The Capitol Police requested Nat. Guard backup 6 times and were denied

Is it a coincidence?

[Bombadil]

The Capitol police turned down offers of support because, hey, white people are peaceful.. and the National Guard weren't called in because the president was too busy eating popcorn watching events on live TV to make that call, and apparently it would be 'bad optics' to have armed confrontation during an inauguration.

This was a case of deep institutional bias.

Ah, you keep repeating that thing about it only being white people. Why is this myth so important to you? Infact, better yet, what in the left-liberal worldview makes them have to rationalize everything through the white supremacist view.

Regarding your total dodge, refute then the Politico article if you would. Also please explain why nobody else in the multi-trillion dollar system stepped up to save the system? Also, your Volkischer Beobachter anecdotes aside, how do you reconcile the total failure and its impact on the worldstage? As well, address the security failures re stolen laptops and the Capitol having to do a giant drill regarding checking for bugs and key loggers. Don't dodge. Answer :^)

I did answer, it was a failure due to deep institutional bias.

What went wrong? The day was a textbook example of cascading mistakes of intelligence, preparation, training and, most of all, police leadership.

Why.. because deep institutional bias lead them to under prepare because they didn't think there was any real threat when there so clearly was.

[Vapormancer]

Note: The Capitol Police requested Nat. Guard backup 6 times and were denied

Is it a coincidence?

This isn't their only line of support. None of their backup departments came to assist either. It took the unilateral deployment by neighboring governors to do anything and provoke a response. Where was the FBI for instance?

[Kowani]

Note: The Capitol Police requested Nat. Guard backup 6 times and were denied

Is it a coincidence?

well
based on everything else we know, I'd suggest not

it was, after all, Pence who had to call them in, which he's not actually allowed to do

[Vapormancer]

Ah, you keep repeating that thing about it only being white people. Why is this myth so important to you? Infact, better yet, what in the left-liberal worldview makes them have to rationalize everything through the white supremacist view.

Regarding your total dodge, refute then the Politico article if you would. Also please explain why nobody else in the multi-trillion dollar system stepped up to save the system? Also, your Volkischer Beobachter anecdotes aside, how do you reconcile the total failure and its impact on the worldstage? As well, address the security failures re stolen laptops and the Capitol having to do a giant drill regarding checking for bugs and key loggers. Don't dodge. Answer :^)

I did answer, it was a failure due to deep institutional bias.

What went wrong? The day was a textbook example of cascading mistakes of intelligence, preparation, training and, most of all, police leadership.

Why.. because deep institutional bias lead them to under prepare because they didn't think there was any real threat when there so clearly was.

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

[Bombadil]

I did answer, it was a failure due to deep institutional bias.

What went wrong? The day was a textbook example of cascading mistakes of intelligence, preparation, training and, most of all, police leadership.

Why.. because deep institutional bias lead them to under prepare because they didn't think there was any real threat when there so clearly was.

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

It's due to deep institutional bias about who trouble makers are and who aren't.

It's very simple.

[Atheris]

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

Citation? Genuinely curious about this.

[Nakena]

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

It's due to deep institutional bias about who trouble makers are and who aren't.

It's very simple.

Early June nights were the heaviest and it took one day before National Guard was deployed to the Capitol. White House was under emergency lockdown and protests kept escalating. I remember one night was particulary intense and the masses were on the brink of revolt and uprising. Ultimative when the Army refused to march, Trump deployed shady DoJ units under command of Barr to the streets before the situation fizzled out.

[Vapormancer]

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

It's due to deep institutional bias about who trouble makers are and who aren't.

It's very simple.

No it isn't. If it were that simple, the other organs of state would have stepped into save the game. It goes much deeper and you still have not addressed the multiple security failures regarding critical items like laptops, the lack of response from partner agencies and the FBI and the total meltdown in command & control for the US government in general. You can not explain that away by a single answer. If it was just one agency, you would not have extreme paranoia about the reliability of their own troops. Neither by the way apparently have you an answer for your obsessions with whiteness or your friends in the media regarding insisting on "multi-racial white supremacy". Regarding the violent crackdown, they did not break out the national wide man hunts, face recognition technology or using the tech firms to find people as noted before too. This touched them a deeper level than your facile analysis and "explanation". Where is your counter to any of my points? You just assert

[Kowani]

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

Citation? Genuinely curious about this.

Some say they're twice as likely, but others looking at the same dataset came up with three times

either way, not a good look

[Bombadil]

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

Citation? Genuinely curious about this.

Link

[Vapormancer]

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

It's due to deep institutional bias about who trouble makers are and who aren't.

It's very simple.

Early June nights were the heaviest and it took one day before National Guard was deployed to the Capitol. White House was under emergency lockdown and protests kept escalating. I remember one night was particulary intense and the masses were on the brink of revolt and uprising. Ultimative when the Army refused to march, Trump deployed shady DoJ units under command of Barr to the streets before the situation fizzled out.

The Ersatz Berkut drawn from the Federal Prison Guards.

[Nakena]

Early June nights were the heaviest and it took one day before National Guard was deployed to the Capitol. White House was under emergency lockdown and protests kept escalating. I remember one night was particulary intense and the masses were on the brink of revolt and uprising. Ultimative when the Army refused to march, Trump deployed shady DoJ units under command of Barr to the streets before the situation fizzled out.

The Ersatz Berkut drawn from the Federal Prison Guards.

Barr's Berkut, now in pictures: viewtopic.php?p=37228357#p37228357

[Vapormancer]

The Ersatz Berkut drawn from the Federal Prison Guards.

Barr's Berkut, now in pictures: viewtopic.php?p=37228357#p37228357

Barr's Berkut... I like that as a name. This should be their official designation.

[Kowani]

Dominion is unsatisfied with the walkbacks

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Dominion is unsatisfied with the walkbacks

https://youtu.be/ikPROMX5LJA

Dominion when Team Trump and friends still can't provide evidence of rigging.

[Xanthal]

https://youtu.be/ikPROMX5LJA

Dominion when Team Trump and friends still can't provide evidence of rigging.

I'm always wary of defamation suits being weaponized to silence criticism, but in this case the complaint seems justified: there's little to no evidence machines have been tampered with, these powerful public figures have gone out of their way to double down on saying they were while having every reason to believe that was false, and in doing so they've almost certainly caused real harm to the company's ability to sell its product. As long as it stays about business and not politics, I tentatively give Dominion my blessing. Hopefully it will also be an opportunity to highlight areas where they can improve and deliver increased security as an added bonus.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I did answer, it was a failure due to deep institutional bias.

What went wrong? The day was a textbook example of cascading mistakes of intelligence, preparation, training and, most of all, police leadership.

Why.. because deep institutional bias lead them to under prepare because they didn't think there was any real threat when there so clearly was.

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

You are demanding Bombadil return to your preferred subject, of hypocritical racism or whatever, instead of coming back to the thread core subject.

Bombadil is trying to stay on topic, and you are trying to threadjack, TEM.

[Senkaku]

It's the aftermath of a massive shock to the system, as ever the threat was highly downplayed because it was angry white men, surely they wouldn't cause any trouble.. so the Capitol police were understaffed, the National Guard was held back.. it doesn't require anything more nefarious than general bias in the system.

However it's lead to a shock and thus the equal and opposite reaction.

It wasn't a shock. It was a humiliation.

It was both.

"It was angry white men"-> this is almost as funny as the Washington Post's multiracial white supremacy article coming along to excuse the people of color in the Chevauchee as "white supremacists".

Not familiar with the specific article, but there is an actual conversation to be had about the ways white supremacy impacts people of color's own identities and how they can uphold colorism, racial hierarchies, etc. in their own lives, even if it's not a conversation that interests you.

You should try viewing it from another lens. Supposedly you are familiar with Europe or come from there in someway, it is quite common to have charges of desperation. Only their charge revealed the American power structure as not only being weak and pathetic at that time but that nobody was willing to risk their ass to save Uncle Sam. With all the response teams in the world, hundreds of millions of dollars, nobody was willing to take personal initiative and save the day. This is why they are so terrified of their own troops and their own security people. The Emperor having no clothes was suddenly revealed. This is why they issue continuity of government orders over a fire under an underpass. Twitter bluechecks rapidly screech it was propane bombs! It was in reality nothing but a small fire by a homeless person and journalists once again prove they are the last to know anything. It speaks to the abject panic at the top.

I don't think this is a very good assessment, elements of the Capitol Police clearly were willing to risk their asses (as evidenced by how many of them got brutalized or in one case killed), and the National Guard and DC Metro Police clearly and forcefully responded once the coordination problem at the highest echelon was resolved. The problem is not that every upper-echelon leader was unwilling to take initiative (though many were), the problem is that there was clearly some advance planning and active efforts taken to disrupt their ability to respond and coordinate. DC Guard was kneecapped by Trump's people at DoD a couple days before, Trump stalled their deployment day of, Boebert appears to have given tours of the building to people days before, and there were clearly some collaborators among Capitol Police (as well as people like Sund who did behave as you describe and basically got the hell out of the way).

I think the fear over radicals inside the ranks is a real fear, fueled by the collaboration we saw from the Capitol Police, and issues we've had previously with police departments and the military. (I'm sure that guy who shot himself the next day was definitely not involved in any coup plotting, since people never kill themselves after failed coups!) Other countries have had similar issues before, I know the Germans have had to purge some of their special forces and police counter-terrorism units.

This is end of Empire stuff.

We do agree there.

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

It's due to deep institutional bias about who trouble makers are and who aren't.

It's very simple.

No it isn't. If it were that simple, the other organs of state would have stepped into save the game. It goes much deeper and you still have not addressed the multiple security failures regarding critical items like laptops, the lack of response from partner agencies and the FBI and the total meltdown in command & control for the US government in general. You can not explain that away by a single answer. If it was just one agency, you would not have extreme paranoia about the reliability of their own troops.

Paranoia over the reliability of the troops is something any government worth its salt that's facing potential coup attempts should feel. You're over-analyzing that one thing; even governments that aren't facing potential coups worry about it.

Neither by the way apparently have you an answer for your obsessions with whiteness or your friends in the media regarding insisting on "multi-racial white supremacy".

Yes, yes, let's keep making fun of a phrase that we haven't thought about much but that sounds funny if stripped of all context and situational usage.

Anyways-- your exclusion of race from your analysis blights it as much as an over-centering of it would. Yes, our command and control and whatnot all melted down spectacularly, but that isn't a routine occurrence and it didn't happen over the summer or in any previous episodes of nationwide racial conflict. Members of the Capitol Police are on the record as saying they underestimated the size of the crowd and their rowdiness because the last two MAGA protests they've had to deal with weren't very big affairs, I don't think it's a stretch to say that the American government takes threats from white citizens less seriously than it does from non-white citizens or that this episode can at least in part be explained by that tendency.

Regarding the violent crackdown, they did not break out the national wide man hunts, face recognition technology or using the tech firms to find people as noted before too. This touched them a deeper level than your facile analysis and "explanation". Where is your counter to any of my points? You just assert

Pretty sure they would've if they thought they could get away with it (but they knew they couldn't, because nothing of this magnitude ever happened that would make the public okay with it). Trump was openly considering deploying the regular military before they more or less told him to get stuffed, I'm sure it would've gone beyond that if they hadn't.

As for facial recognition, that's used all the time. It was used then, it's being used now. There just wasn't as much of a coordinated effort to hunt people down with it... because frankly, comparing this to what happened last summer is a bad comparison. They're two very different events, even if they're both symptomatic on a more meta level of the same disease.

Answer the question re white people and my other points. Don't dodge, it is getting old and you are boring me. Why does it have to be white people? Explain or excuse away the other failures too as well. The one answer does not explain everything. It is a mealy-mouthed excuse for failure on multiple systemic levels which are apparently so severe that you can not address them.

They were utterly prepared for the BLM march in, what was it, July or August, national guard on the steps of the Capitol. And it's already noted that violent crackdown is 3 times more likely on left wing protests over right wing.

It's due to deep institutional bias about who trouble makers are and who aren't.

It's very simple.

That... and also the fact that this time it appears senior members of the government took conscious steps while planning their coup attempt to weaken Capitol area security forces. Never chalk up to incompetence what you can attribute to malice aforethought.

[Senkaku]

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan’s Request For Presidential Disaster Declaration ahead of Biden's inauguration was denied

Well, can't he at least wait and see if it actually does end up being a disaster?

[Cannot think of a name]

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan’s Request For Presidential Disaster Declaration ahead of Biden's inauguration was denied

Well, can't he at least wait and see if it actually does end up being a disaster?

It sounds like he wants money to cover the extra cost of keeping it from becoming a disaster if I'm reading that right, which kind of makes sense. Ultimately it would be cheaper to go ahead pay for the tiger repelling rock than it would if the tiger actually turned out to be real. Or bear, I can't remember the gag now. But he's in that frustrating position of only getting help if he lets it go to shit.

[Heloin]

Well, can't he at least wait and see if it actually does end up being a disaster?

It sounds like he wants money to cover the extra cost of keeping it from becoming a disaster if I'm reading that right, which kind of makes sense. Ultimately it would be cheaper to go ahead pay for the tiger repelling rock than it would if the tiger actually turned out to be real. Or bear, I can't remember the gag now. But he's in that frustrating position of only getting help if he lets it go to shit.

Bear Patrol, tiger repelling rock. You good.