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Dawn of a New Tag(A German Election Thread)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you support?

CDU/CSU
19
32%
SPD
7
12%
AfD
8
14%
FDP
0
No votes
Die Linke
14
24%
Alliance 90/The Greens
10
17%
Other
1
2%
 
Total votes : 59

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Arisyan
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Posts: 167
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:11 pm



took them long enough. Still im cheering! Now, did they do that to the National Democratic Party? they've almost been banned like 4 times.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:40 pm



A good thing they're dropping in the polls...and a god thing in general. Maybe the government will outright ban them, but I doubt it in the short term. If Meuther can make them a standard alt-right populist racket, he could plausibly avoid charges of Nazism.
Last edited by Shrillland on Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nazis in Space
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Founded: Aug 24, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nazis in Space » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:31 am

Nobody's going to ban a party that's polling at around 10%.

Nevermind the history of party bans, which is basically a history of failure and abuse of power.

I doubt the AfD will just disappear, either. The CDU's move to the left basically left a vacuum on the right. Political and ideological positions that used to be those of the CDU's right wing are now the AfDs. That's sufficiently popular to keep them afloat, their regular attempts at destroying themselves notwithstanding.

The exception to this is the AfD's russophilia (and to an extent the AfD taking up American right-wing talking points rather than actually being a German party, but I suspect that would've happened regardless of whether they have their own party or are a part of the CDU; American media dominance is a hell of a drug for the rest of the planet), but eh. Needs something to distinguish itself, I guess.

Ultimately, they're to the CDU what the Linke is to the SPD. The disgruntled ideologues yearning for a past that won't come back, disliked by everyone, but in a decade or two people will probably be reluctantly willing to do state-level coalitions with them.

If the CDU hadn't gone left, the AfD wouldn't exist, the SPD would be stronger, but the CDU would still win forever, and AfD-esque people would actually be closer to the levers of power. Make of that what you will.

Also, gotta say, while I won't vote for them any more than for the CDU or the Linke (it's usually Green on the federal level, SPD on the state- and local level, because the state- and local Greens are insane, while the federal ones are tolerable), I must say that I'm impressed by their staying power. Compared to past right-wing attempts (who remembers the DVU media panic of the late 1990s?), they've been remarkably consistent. At this point, I think it's safe to say that they rate well above the usual flash in the pan populist right-wing party rise-and-collapse and are here to stay.

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Baltenstein
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Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:45 am

took them long enough. Still im cheering! Now, did they do that to the National Democratic Party? they've almost been banned like 4 times.


The government had tried to ban the NPD a couple of times in the past, then they remembered that like half the party are on their payroll as secret informers and dropped the ban procedure.


Nazis in Space wrote:The exception to this is the AfD's russophilia (and to an extent the AfD taking up American right-wing talking points rather than actually being a German party, but I suspect that would've happened regardless of whether they have their own party or are a part of the CDU; American media dominance is a hell of a drug for the rest of the planet), but eh. Needs something to distinguish itself, I guess.


It's a globalization process that is affecting all sides of the political spectrum. Just like the German Left has started to pick up narratives about "critical whiteness" and "people of color", that come directly from the US discourse and would never have developed organically inside German society, so the Right has started to pick up climate change skepticism, free gun laws and QAnon.

Also, gotta say, while I won't vote for them any more than for the CDU or the Linke (it's usually Green on the federal level, SPD on the state- and local level, because the state- and local Greens are insane, while the federal ones are tolerable)


It probably depends on the state. I am being told that Winfried Kretschmann has done a solid, pragmatist job. The Berlin Greens are definitely insane (but then, so are most Berlin parties).
Last edited by Baltenstein on Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Nazis in Space
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Posts: 11701
Founded: Aug 24, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nazis in Space » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:53 am

Baltenstein wrote:It's a globalization process that is affecting all sides of the political spectrum. Just like the German Left has started to pick up narratives about "critical whiteness" and "people of color", that come directly from the US discourse and would never have developed organically inside German society, so the Right has started to pick up climate change skepticism, free gun laws and QAnon.

Fair. Doesn't make it any less annoying.
It probably depends on the state. I am being told that Winfried Kretschmann has done a solid, pragmatist job. The Berlin Greens are definitely insane (but then, so are most Berlin parties).

If I lived in Baden-Württemberg, I'd vote Green on the state- and local level, too. But since I live in NRW, well...

There's a remarkable disconnect between the Greens on the local level, which tend to swerve pretty hard to the left (if with regional divergences, as seen in the contrast between Berlin and BW), and the Greens on the Federal level, which swerve pretty hard to the right (relative to the Green mean, of course). The Greens' right wing, exemplified by the likes of Özdemir (granted, that atlanticism gets on my nerves, but it could be worse) or Kretschmann, is entirely electable for me. The Greens' left wing, uh, not so much.

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Shrillland
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Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:45 pm

We actually have some news, today the Saxony AfD chose their list leader for September, current AfD Bundestag Leader Chrupalla: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundestagswahl-afd-spitzenkandidat-sachsen-chrupalla-100.html

And SPD seems to be making sustainability the central theme of their manifesto later this year: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/spd-vorstandsklausur-oekologie-wahlkampf-100.html
Last edited by Shrillland on Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bienenhalde
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:20 pm

I can't decide whether or not I would fully support the CDU in this election because they haven't announced their chancellor candidate yet. Do we have any idea when that is going to happen? I am not very confident in Laschet, he is not as bad as Merz, but not as good as Röttgen or Söder.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:04 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:I can't decide whether or not I would fully support the CDU in this election because they haven't announced their chancellor candidate yet. Do we have any idea when that is going to happen? I am not very confident in Laschet, he is not as bad as Merz, but not as good as Röttgen or Söder.


Not for some time, I don't think. Right now, though, despite my earlier doubts, I think Söder's more likely, he polls better than Laschet in the chancellery preference polls.
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Kexholm Karelia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1997
Founded: Sep 22, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kexholm Karelia » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:43 pm

CDU Ftw
Right wing conservative
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CCP delenda est
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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34976
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:30 pm

No one can persuade Merkel to stay as party leader? I’m disappointed.

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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:14 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:No one can persuade Merkel to stay as party leader? I’m disappointed.


She wanted to retire five years ago, but she stayed around because of Trump...more specifically because she saw that, at the time, she was the West's sole steady anchor as a lot of other countries were drifting towards populism.
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Wolkenburg
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Feb 08, 2021
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Wolkenburg » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:25 am

Shrillland wrote:I know, I know, this is way out in advance].


No it is not. one of the many things that surprised me, is how short the Election Season is in Germany. I know all the politics are too busy not dealing with the pandemic, but come on, there is an election this year!

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Wolkenburg
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Feb 08, 2021
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Wolkenburg » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:30 am

Shrillland wrote:We actually have some news, today the Saxony AfD chose their list leader for September, current AfD Bundestag Leader Chrupalla: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundestagswahl-afd-spitzenkandidat-sachsen-chrupalla-100.html

And SPD seems to be making sustainability the central theme of their manifesto later this year: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/spd-vorstandsklausur-oekologie-wahlkampf-100.html


Very smart, the SPD will encourage people not to throw out old things. Not that it will work, the SPD is outdated and irrelevant. Of course, their ideas will be recycled though...

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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:47 am

Wolkenburg wrote:
Shrillland wrote:We actually have some news, today the Saxony AfD chose their list leader for September, current AfD Bundestag Leader Chrupalla: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundestagswahl-afd-spitzenkandidat-sachsen-chrupalla-100.html

And SPD seems to be making sustainability the central theme of their manifesto later this year: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/spd-vorstandsklausur-oekologie-wahlkampf-100.html


Very smart, the SPD will encourage people not to throw out old things. Not that it will work, the SPD is outdated and irrelevant. Of course, their ideas will be recycled though...


Well, the Greens are better at the argument anyway, and they're the future.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:53 am

CDU is so fucking strong its mad. Hope the Greens do well at least.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:54 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:CDU is so fucking strong its mad. Hope the Greens do well at least.


They're going to get a decent second place. If it wasn't for Covid, it would be a serious fight between the two, tbh.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:03 am

Shrillland wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:CDU is so fucking strong its mad. Hope the Greens do well at least.


They're going to get a decent second place. If it wasn't for Covid, it would be a serious fight between the two, tbh.

Yeah i saw the CDU/CSU got a big boost in the polls once covid hit and countries began locking down. Makes sense honestly.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:14 am

And of course, the federal vote won't be the only vote in September, Thuringia's finally going to have their rerun on the same day.
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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:37 am

Wolkenburg wrote:
Shrillland wrote:I know, I know, this is way out in advance].


No it is not. one of the many things that surprised me, is how short the Election Season is in Germany. I know all the politics are too busy not dealing with the pandemic, but come on, there is an election this year!


I'd argue that it's the American one that is too long, rather than the german one being too short.
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Anglicora
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Founded: Dec 21, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Anglicora » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:21 pm

CDU/CSU is the least bad option for a European-friendly Germany. But Laschet is far too weak and he is compromised by Erdogan.
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Joohan
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Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:34 pm

I'm not really liking any of these - but I guess AfD? They strike me as being a bit akin to the GOP, another party I have serious issues with.
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Kexholm Karelia
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Founded: Sep 22, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kexholm Karelia » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:41 pm

Joohan wrote:I'm not really liking any of these - but I guess AfD? They strike me as being a bit akin to the GOP, another party I have serious issues with.

While AfDs anti immigration and anti EU stance is good, along with social conservatism, many factions of the party have links to racist organizations so in general the CDU seems better for me even though their government had the worst refugee policies in Europe
Right wing conservative
Media is the enemy of the people
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orange man bad. diversity is our strength. real communism hasn’t been tried yet. the hong kong protestors are paid by the cia. antifa protestors are good, hong kong protestors are american bootlickers. China is a better alternative to America. uyghur genocide isn’t real, and it is western propaganda. Trump should not have killed Soleimani. gender is a social construct invented by white supremacists.

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Joohan
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Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:38 pm

Kexholm Karelia wrote:
Joohan wrote:I'm not really liking any of these - but I guess AfD? They strike me as being a bit akin to the GOP, another party I have serious issues with.

While AfDs anti immigration and anti EU stance is good, along with social conservatism, many factions of the party have links to racist organizations so in general the CDU seems better for me even though their government had the worst refugee policies in Europe


Though I am generally opposed to neoliberalism ( and in turn, the EU ), if I were a German i'd be pro-EU. I mean, they practically run the thing, why on earth would they want to throw that away. CDU, especially since Merkel, has just been another party of neoliberalism as well, and has pretty much stopped even paying lip service to the C in their name. I'm sympathetic to the refugee's, and i've no ill feelings towards Islam, but man I just don't dig anyone in the German election.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:56 pm

AFD is trash.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:29 pm

Laschet continues to dig that hole by showing more scepticism about lockdowns, even though his tenure in NRW showed why that scepticism was so bad in the first place: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/new-head-of-merkel-s-cdu-misfires-with-pandemic-comments/ar-BB1dLo3q?li=BBnbcA1

Does he actively want Soder in charge of CDU/CSU?

On top of this, does he think this will help him in next month's state votes?
Last edited by Shrillland on Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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