Save the women and the children first

[Major-Tom]

I don't know, I'm simply built different, I could just swim and make it out alive, y'know?

[Ifreann]

What makes you think that men were more likely to survive sea disasters in general?

I’m sure it’s not water tight (lol) so take it as you will.

This would seem to suggest that men were more often saved from maritime disasters than one would suspect from the popular idea of women and children being saved first. Whereas what I was interrogating was the idea that women and children should be saved first because men would have better odds of surviving in the water and thus don't need to be prioritised for space on the lifeboat.

[Dogmeat]

Children first, definitely. They have their whole lives ahead of them, and also conveniently take up less space, and have a strong will to live. So it's a natural priority.

I don't really have an opinion about whether women should go first, other then to say that you probably shouldn't do this if it any way slows down the queuing process. Better to save more people then to stress about what gender they are.

Dogs, of course, will heroically stay behind.

[Ethel mermania]

Children first, definitely. They have their whole lives ahead of them, and also conveniently take up less space, and have a strong will to live. So it's a natural priority.

I don't really have an opinion about whether women should go first, other then to say that you probably shouldn't do this if it any way slows down the queuing process. Better to save more people then to stress about what gender they are.

Dogs, of course, will heroically stay behind.

Some Cats follow the rats into the lifeboats for a sea voyage with fresh food.

Others just sit on the deck, knocking off the chairs into the water.

[Stellar Colonies]

There is the third option.

We could tie Male Disposability to an anvil and jeer at it while it sinks into the water.

[Atheris]

There is the third option.

We could tie Male Disposability to an anvil and jeer at it while it sinks into the water.

I like this option.

[Kanadorika]

Personally, I can't stand the idea of putting my family and loved ones through pain and suffering because I chose to save a stranger's life over my own. It's not fair to those who care for me, even if I personally would rather save the life of someone else by guaranteeing my own demise.

[Teshlon]

Everyone should be guaranteed an escape vessel on a large carriage craft of any type. To do any less is to provide insufficient safety equipment.

The woman and children argument is so worn out and dead.

Look how COVID vaccines are being distributed. That’s how you distribute rescue assets when you can’t otherwise evenly distribute.

Vulnerable people and essential services workers first. Then woman infants and children along with elderly. Then general population.

[El-Sallia]

Everyone should be guaranteed an escape vessel on a large carriage craft of any type. To do any less is to provide insufficient safety equipment.

The woman and children argument is so worn out and dead.

Look how COVID vaccines are being distributed. That’s how you distribute rescue assets when you can’t otherwise evenly distribute.

Vulnerable people and essential services workers first. Then woman infants and children along with elderly. Then general population.

You put it just the way I was thinking.

[Adamede]

Everyone should be guaranteed an escape vessel on a large carriage craft of any type. To do any less is to provide insufficient safety equipment.

The woman and children argument is so worn out and dead.

Look how COVID vaccines are being distributed. That’s how you distribute rescue assets when you can’t otherwise evenly distribute.

Vulnerable people and essential services workers first. Then woman infants and children along with elderly. Then general population.

A sinking ship isn’t exactly a comparable without to a world wide pandemic which has killed millions of people.

[Luziyca]

Children and women first, ofc, then if there's any room, the men can come on board.

[Forsher]

Everyone should be guaranteed an escape vessel on a large carriage craft of any type. To do any less is to provide insufficient safety equipment.

The woman and children argument is so worn out and dead.

Look how COVID vaccines are being distributed. That’s how you distribute rescue assets when you can’t otherwise evenly distribute.

Vulnerable people and essential services workers first. Then woman infants and children along with elderly. Then general population.

A sinking ship isn’t exactly a comparable without to a world wide pandemic which has killed millions of people.

We're... because they are hardly the only one to make this point... not comparing a pandemic with a sinking ship. We're comparing how to allocate rescue assets among a population. These conditions exist both in a time of pandemic (we hope, anyway) and during the sinking of a ship.

Start from the first principle... what are you trying to do in each case? Save people, right? That is true, regardless of situation.

Now the next principle... what are you trying to avoid? Death. Unfairness. Cruelty. Suffering. And so on. Again, the same.

If you're trying to do the same things in both cases, why wouldn't you point out the comparison? I suspect that your point is that the conclusions ought to be different, but there's no problem with using the one to inform your thinking of the other.

Now, as it happens, I don't agree with our friend's conclusion (for either vaccine distribution or a sinking ship) because you're quite right that there are differences in context but the comparison is sound. In the Covid vaccine situation, those countries dealing with community transmission want:

1. healthcare workers
2. vulnerable people (i.e. the elderly, prisoners, in patients, people with respiratory issues)
3. essential workers
4. household contacts of the above
5. groups who are more likely to spread the virus
6. everyone else... probably by lottery

In a country absent community transmission you want something more like:

1. border and MIQ workers and their household contacts
2. healthcare and their household contacts
3. essential workers and their household contacts
4. the elderly and aged care workers and their household contacts
5. the vulnerable and their contacts
6. everyone else

the difference being you'll get a lot bang for the buck with the first step towards protecting everyone than with any other group. In a country that has lost control, considering transmission vectors honestly seems less relevant than making sure those who are particularly exposed face lesser risk. Vulnerability

With the sinking ship what you want are:

1. vulnerable people (i.e. the elderly, those with disabilities, children)
2. the people closest to the lifeboat
3. the crew (i.e. the people managing the evacuation)

As I said before, you really don't explain why you're doing shit in this kind of situation... you take control and follow procedures you know, firmly, calmly and with authority. Thus, you do not get rid of people who know those procedures until the end. And nor should you get rid of their chain of command, either. It might be funny to position the captain of a sinking ship as having to little to do, but you don't want senior management micromanaging the evacuation, you want them managing those micro components (i.e. the trained crew) and delegating responsibility to their officers. Naturally, not all crew have these responsibilities and they ought to be treated merely as passengers.

If I was closer to my cousin I'd ask what they do do here, actually. He used to be, iirc, a third mate on cruise ships... actually spent weeks and weeks stuck on board because of Covid. But we're not that close, and I'm comfortable that I'm correct. And if I'm not, I should be.

[The Republic of Fore]

I'd save myself first, dying to save someone else is pointless, you'll just be forgotten anyway. Classic example for you. Iraq, 2007 two US marines Lcpl Haerter, and Cpl Yale are tasked with guarding a gate to a base along with two iraqi policemen. A truck loaded with explosives comes hurtling towards them, causing the policemen to run. Haerter and Yale stayed behind and opened fire bringing the truck to a stop feet from them. They were killed in the blast after it detonated anyway, but saved over 50 others. Now yes, they're very heroic. But how many of you knew their names before reading this comment? I'd rather not throw my life away at 19 or 21 like they were, just to be forgotten in a week anyway.

[New Mordka]

No I would not save anybody but myself and my family.

[Cordel One]

I'd save myself first, dying to save someone else is pointless, you'll just be forgotten anyway. Classic example for you. Iraq, 2007 two US marines Lcpl Haerter, and Cpl Yale are tasked with guarding a gate to a base along with two iraqi policemen. A truck loaded with explosives comes hurtling towards them, causing the policemen to run. Haerter and Yale stayed behind and opened fire bringing the truck to a stop feet from them. They were killed in the blast after it detonated anyway, but saved over 50 others. Now yes, they're very heroic. But how many of you knew their names before reading this comment? I'd rather not throw my life away at 19 or 21 like they were, just to be forgotten in a week anyway.

How very selfish of you.

[The Republic of Fore]

I'd save myself first, dying to save someone else is pointless, you'll just be forgotten anyway. The classic example for you. Iraq, 2007 two US marines LCpl Haerter, and Cpl Yale are tasked with guarding a gate to a base along with two Iraqi policemen. A truck loaded with explosives comes hurtling towards them, causing the policemen to run. Haerter and Yale stayed behind and opened fire bringing the truck to a stop feet from them. They were killed in the blast after it detonated anyway but saved over 50 others. Now yes, they're very heroic. But how many of you knew their names before reading this comment? I'd rather not throw my life away at 19 or 21 like they were, just to be forgotten in a week anyway.

How very selfish of you.

Oh please, nobody in this thread knows if they'd actually lay down your life to save someone else since they've most likely never been faced with that choice. Anybody who claims they would is just running their mouth to look good because they know they'll never have to back it up. Anyone who claims they'd be brave or heroic in a situation they've never faced is either lying to make themselves look good, or delusional. One of my personal favorite questions to ask people like that. "If you would really run into a burning building to save a child, why aren't you a firefighter?"

[Comerciante]

How very selfish of you.

Oh please, nobody in this thread knows if they'd actually lay down your life to save someone else since they've most likely never been faced with that choice. Anybody who claims they would is just running their mouth to look good because they know they'll never have to back it up. Anyone who claims they'd be brave or heroic in a situation they've never faced is either lying to make themselves look good, or delusional. One of my personal favorite questions to ask people like that. "If you would really run into a burning building to save a child, why aren't you a firefighter?"

Ah, I see.

Been trying to get the cut of your gib. Thought you were like Reich.

But your not a coward. Ye be an edgelord.

[The Republic of Fore]

Oh please, nobody in this thread knows if they'd actually lay down your life to save someone else since they've most likely never been faced with that choice. Anybody who claims they would is just running their mouth to look good because they know they'll never have to back it up. Anyone who claims they'd be brave or heroic in a situation they've never faced is either lying to make themselves look good, or delusional. One of my personal favorite questions to ask people like that. "If you would really run into a burning building to save a child, why aren't you a firefighter?"

Ah, I see.

Been trying to get the cut of your gib. Thought you were like Reich.

But your not a coward. Ye be an edgelord.

I be someone who doesn't have time for pointless posturing by people trying to stroke their own egos. IF you're so brave and moral, then prove it. Stop talking and do something.

[Comerciante]

Ah, I see.

Been trying to get the cut of your gib. Thought you were like Reich.

But your not a coward. Ye be an edgelord.

I be someone who doesn't have time for pointless posturing by people trying to stroke their own egos. IF you're so brave and moral, then prove it. Stop talking and do something.

Ye be asking why people, not all become firefighters if they would be willing to do a good thing.

Perhaps if you consider the fact that not everyone is cut out for the work, because their bodies are very willing to gain fat at the slightest inclination. Perhaps if you consider not every place in the world needs so many firefighters.

If ye don't have time for pointless posturing and such perhaps stop trying to be pointless posturing or asking asinine questions?

[The Republic of Fore]

I be someone who doesn't have time for pointless posturing by people trying to stroke their own egos. IF you're so brave and moral, then prove it. Stop talking and do something.

Ye be asking why people, not all become firefighters if they would be willing to do a good thing.

Perhaps if you consider the fact that not everyone is cut out for the work, because their bodies are very willing to gain fat at the slightest inclination. Perhaps if you consider not every place in the world needs so many firefighters.

If ye don't have time for pointless posturing and such perhaps stop trying to be pointless posturing or asking asinine questions?

If you're not capable of being a firefighter you're most likely not capable of rescuing someone from a burning building. So stop running your mouth to look good. I'll stop asking "asinine questions" when asinine idiots stop spewing hot and fresh bull manure about how brave and moral they are, then never do anything to back it up. Most real heroes don't have time for mouth running, they let their resume speak for itself. Don't say things you aren't willing to prove, I don't see why that's difficult.

[Comerciante]

Ye be asking why people, not all become firefighters if they would be willing to do a good thing.

Perhaps if you consider the fact that not everyone is cut out for the work, because their bodies are very willing to gain fat at the slightest inclination. Perhaps if you consider not every place in the world needs so many firefighters.

If ye don't have time for pointless posturing and such perhaps stop trying to be pointless posturing or asking asinine questions?

If you're not capable of being a firefighter you're most likely not capable of rescuing someone from a burning building. So stop running your mouth to look good. I'll stop asking "asinine questions" when asinine idiots stop spewing hot and fresh bull manure about how brave and moral they are, then never do anything to back it up. Most real heroes don't have time for mouth running, they let their resume speak for itself. Don't say things you aren't willing to prove, I don't see why that's difficult.

Nobody is here saying that mate except for you.

I'm not making me self look good my lad, you are simply making yourself look bad to be appearing smart and all that... or a coward really.

I am not in needing of be proving myself to people on the internet, let alone an edgelord.

[The Untied State]

close your eyes and save people at random. justice is blind.

actual answer: it makes sense to prioritize children, as well as the pregnant since they're technically more than one person (god that sounds weird), but i see no good reason to value saving women above men. you could keep everyone's records of everything they've ever done handy, and calculate who has contributed/will contribute the most to society to save them first, but that's utilitarian and overly complicated. just save all you can regardless of gender or any other irrelevant factors that are beyond their control.

[The Republic of Fore]

If you're not capable of being a firefighter you're most likely not capable of rescuing someone from a burning building. So stop running your mouth to look good. I'll stop asking "asinine questions" when asinine idiots stop spewing hot and fresh bull manure about how brave and moral they are, then never do anything to back it up. Most real heroes don't have time for mouth running, they let their resume speak for itself. Don't say things you aren't willing to prove, I don't see why that's difficult.

Nobody is here saying that mate except for you.

I'm not making me self look good my lad, you are simply making yourself look bad to be appearing smart and all that... or a coward really.

I am not in needing of be proving myself to people on the internet, let alone an edgelord.

That's literally what you're doing when you claim to know how you'd respond to a situation you've never been in.

[The Untied State]

I don't know, I'm simply built different, I could just swim and make it out alive, y'know?

the only right answer tbh

[Comerciante]

Nobody is here saying that mate except for you.

I'm not making me self look good my lad, you are simply making yourself look bad to be appearing smart and all that... or a coward really.

I am not in needing of be proving myself to people on the internet, let alone an edgelord.

That's literally what you're doing when you claim to know how you'd respond to a situation you've never been in.

Perhaps ye be pointing out where it says in the OP that we be deciding how our actions would be during the event?

Instead of ye know be deciding what orders would be given to the armed men in charge of deciding who got on the boats to safety and who wouldn't?