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Save the women and the children first

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How do you feel about being in a situation like this?

Save the women and the children first
66
58%
First come, first serve
48
42%
 
Total votes : 114

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Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5450
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:36 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Nejii wrote:As a gentleman and someone who sees children as precious and fragile, my wife and child would go before me in the lifeboat. But that’s just me.


My own wife and children are a different matter. I am not against sacrificing myself for them.

But random women and children, I don't hold the same standard.

Same here. I don't have a wife or kids and I won't, but if I have to die in order to save my family (biological or otherwise) I'll gladly take that bullet.
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Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13676
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:39 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Hristoros Islands wrote:Well, at the end of the day, at a purely biological level, eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap. On a more human level, even in a very lefty place like where I live, when I worked at one of my jobs, the really heavy duty grinding work was all done by men. Not because women couldn't apply or were discouraged under the table, but because none ever bothered to. In most situations, generally men are going to gravitate to more muscular and dangerous tasks. To some extent, men should embrace this.

I'd say save the women and children first. I think most of us would if we were really pressed against the wall in a dangerous situation, ideology be damned.

Unless human existence itself was on the line, I do not consider a woman's life to be any more valuable than a man's life.

And we are far from that.

It just is not a factor which we should care about, lest we go down some real ugly roads.
The Blaatschapen wrote:
Men who think that way should board last.

Indeed.


If we are in a situation where human existence is on the line, there should be more women saved than men but there should be more adult males saved than children of either sex, because a population that predominantly consists of children cannot take care of itself.

If we were facing human extinction and I had to make an ark, I would choose people between the ages of 16 - 30, 7 out of 10 being female.
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Arisyan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 174
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:42 am

Save the weak first (injured, disabled, pregnant etc.) along with children. Don't separate families as much as possible. And remember to bring lifeboats.
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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:49 am

Page wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Unless human existence itself was on the line, I do not consider a woman's life to be any more valuable than a man's life.

And we are far from that.

It just is not a factor which we should care about, lest we go down some real ugly roads.

Indeed.


If we are in a situation where human existence is on the line, there should be more women saved than men but there should be more adult males saved than children of either sex, because a population that predominantly consists of children cannot take care of itself.

If we were facing human extinction and I had to make an ark, I would choose people between the ages of 16 - 30, 7 out of 10 being female.


You need sheep on that boat.

Just making sure.
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Stellar Colonies
Minister
 
Posts: 2403
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 am

Page wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Unless human existence itself was on the line, I do not consider a woman's life to be any more valuable than a man's life.

And we are far from that.

It just is not a factor which we should care about, lest we go down some real ugly roads.

Indeed.


If we are in a situation where human existence is on the line, there should be more women saved than men but there should be more adult males saved than children of either sex, because a population that predominantly consists of children cannot take care of itself.

If we were facing human extinction and I had to make an ark, I would choose people between the ages of 16 - 30, 7 out of 10 being female.

Sadly, yes.

Unless we can fix that glaring defect in our reproductive patterns, male lives will be inherently less valuable on a biological basis, which has leaked into our culture and politics since before history itself.

Rather disturbing, really.
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32748
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:53 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Page wrote:
If we are in a situation where human existence is on the line, there should be more women saved than men but there should be more adult males saved than children of either sex, because a population that predominantly consists of children cannot take care of itself.

If we were facing human extinction and I had to make an ark, I would choose people between the ages of 16 - 30, 7 out of 10 being female.


You need sheep on that boat.

Just making sure.

You guys can float, right?

*Googles "sheep floating in water" and the only image is a dead one floating upside-down in the water*

...oh. Alright. You can get in the boat.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Stellar Colonies
Minister
 
Posts: 2403
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:54 am

The New California Republic wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
You need sheep on that boat.

Just making sure.

You guys can float, right?

*Googles "sheep floating in water" and the only image is a dead one floating upside-down in the water*

...oh. Alright. You can get in the boat.

*Ducks out*

*Returns*

Oh, those are gruesome.
357 days since local 'stay-at-home order' was announced

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California


Stellar Colonies is a loose confederacy comprised from most of the human-settled parts of the galaxy.

Ida Station is the only Confederate member state permitted to join the WA.
An Incomplete List of Ida's Interpretations of WA Resolutions

Add 3000 years for the date I use.
If you want a mental image of me: Straight(?), white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

I don't think the political compass is
fully accurate, but here are my results:

X-Axis: -5.38
Y-Axis: -2.62

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 58096
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:54 am

The New California Republic wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
You need sheep on that boat.

Just making sure.

You guys can float, right?

*Googles "sheep floating in water" and the only image is a dead one floating upside-down in the water*

...oh. Alright. You can get in the boat.


Wet wool smells.

And we're not fat, so we don't float.
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A-Series-Of-Tubes
Minister
 
Posts: 2181
Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby A-Series-Of-Tubes » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:25 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Page wrote:
If we are in a situation where human existence is on the line, there should be more women saved than men but there should be more adult males saved than children of either sex, because a population that predominantly consists of children cannot take care of itself.

If we were facing human extinction and I had to make an ark, I would choose people between the ages of 16 - 30, 7 out of 10 being female.

Sadly, yes.

Unless we can fix that glaring defect in our reproductive patterns, male lives will be inherently less valuable on a biological basis, which has leaked into our culture and politics since before history itself.

Rather disturbing, really.


Men are equal in the fertilization stage, and more dispensable in the incubation stage. Then suckling stage: in the scenario of all human things as well as all other humans being destroyed, suckling babies is an absolutely indispensable role of the woman. However, in incubation and suckling, the woman needs extra food and that makes the man quite useful.

Even now, babies with two parents tend to do better than those with only one. Take away the benefits of human civilization, and there would likely be a quite stark difference in survival-to-breeding-age. Also remember, that with a poor diet breeding age might be 20 or older.

If the optimal ratio was extreme (20 women to 1 man for example) then evolution would have broken the gender balance, wouldn't it? A tribe of women who all give birth to one boy, then nothing but girls, could outbreed a half-girls-half-boys tribe ... IF the ability to grow their tribe quickly was a significant advantage.

If evolution favored the way we have now, then evolution is presumably correct. This scenario we commonly start with, of unlimited resources which we have to grow as quickly as possible to the limit of resources, is apparently quite insignificant. Surviving many generations within the limits of the available resources, is apparently the dominant selection pressure in our past.

On the unlimited-resources, small group to re-establish humanity scenario, it probably is best to favor women. But not very much. Among the threats to their survival will be social disharmony leading to conflict of arms. Not just the obvious, fighting among the men, but unforeseen disharmony as the small society with no outside influences mutates rapidly. Actually, I've changed my mind. Rapid growth of population is less important than social harmony. We should stick with the 1:1 ratio and aim for monogamy with or without nuclear families, lest dumb men lured by the prospect of so much sex, allow the development of a matriarchy, their own enslavement, then segregation. "Never have to work, but all the sex you can handle" might sound OK, but it could mean extinction. When one tribe ruled by women realizes the best way to get the better of another tribe, permanently, is to kill their men ...

If we're talking survival of the species, I think it would be rash to choose any ratio but the one we know works.
Last edited by A-Series-Of-Tubes on Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Socialist States of Ludistan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 483
Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Socialist States of Ludistan » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:44 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Socialist States of Ludistan wrote:A harsh look on life, but a true one.


!!!!!!!!!!

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You’ll learn when you get older.
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Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5450
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:16 pm

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Socialist States of Ludistan wrote:A harsh look on life, but a true one.


!!!!!!!!!!

Fun to replace? What do you mean?

Gross.
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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 58096
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:54 pm

A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Sadly, yes.

Unless we can fix that glaring defect in our reproductive patterns, male lives will be inherently less valuable on a biological basis, which has leaked into our culture and politics since before history itself.

Rather disturbing, really.


Men are equal in the fertilization stage, and more dispensable in the incubation stage. Then suckling stage: in the scenario of all human things as well as all other humans being destroyed, suckling babies is an absolutely indispensable role of the woman. However, in incubation and suckling, the woman needs extra food and that makes the man quite useful.

Even now, babies with two parents tend to do better than those with only one. Take away the benefits of human civilization, and there would likely be a quite stark difference in survival-to-breeding-age. Also remember, that with a poor diet breeding age might be 20 or older.

If the optimal ratio was extreme (20 women to 1 man for example) then evolution would have broken the gender balance, wouldn't it? A tribe of women who all give birth to one boy, then nothing but girls, could outbreed a half-girls-half-boys tribe ... IF the ability to grow their tribe quickly was a significant advantage.

If evolution favored the way we have now, then evolution is presumably correct. This scenario we commonly start with, of unlimited resources which we have to grow as quickly as possible to the limit of resources, is apparently quite insignificant. Surviving many generations within the limits of the available resources, is apparently the dominant selection pressure in our past.

On the unlimited-resources, small group to re-establish humanity scenario, it probably is best to favor women. But not very much. Among the threats to their survival will be social disharmony leading to conflict of arms. Not just the obvious, fighting among the men, but unforeseen disharmony as the small society with no outside influences mutates rapidly. Actually, I've changed my mind. Rapid growth of population is less important than social harmony. We should stick with the 1:1 ratio and aim for monogamy with or without nuclear families, lest dumb men lured by the prospect of so much sex, allow the development of a matriarchy, their own enslavement, then segregation. "Never have to work, but all the sex you can handle" might sound OK, but it could mean extinction. When one tribe ruled by women realizes the best way to get the better of another tribe, permanently, is to kill their men ...

If we're talking survival of the species, I think it would be rash to choose any ratio but the one we know works.


Keep in mind, that women die in childbirth on a fairly regular basis in a society that lacks the facilities to mitigate it. If women were to become a dime a dozen, why invest in that?

This is getting bleak, and not at all the situation described in the OP though :meh: We're not talking about a survival of the species, nor about a massive gender imbalance in terms of quantity in the world.
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Ethel mermania
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Posts: 112002
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:37 pm

Risottia wrote:
New haven america wrote:Well, no they're not.

Most women don't find 9 months of gestation enjoyable.

As if we MENTM were supposed to care for the opinion of walking gestation chambers/sandwich makers. Seesh. Enough with this toxic femininity.

Heh, you haven't had a kid yet. never send out in the middle of a cold snowy night, ordered to bring back a blueberry cheese cake or not come back at all.

You weren't there man, you weren't there.


<==== cries
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:53 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Risottia wrote:As if we MENTM were supposed to care for the opinion of walking gestation chambers/sandwich makers. Seesh. Enough with this toxic femininity.

Heh, you haven't had a kid yet. never send out in the middle of a cold snowy night, ordered to bring back a blueberry cheese cake or not come back at all.

You weren't there man, you weren't there.


<==== cries


Did you get the blueberry cheesecake?
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Ethel mermania
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Posts: 112002
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:30 pm

Kannap wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Heh, you haven't had a kid yet. never send out in the middle of a cold snowy night, ordered to bring back a blueberry cheese cake or not come back at all.

You weren't there man, you weren't there.


<==== cries


Did you get the blueberry cheesecake?

I am still married, so yes.
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Atheris
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Posts: 5450
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:35 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Risottia wrote:As if we MENTM were supposed to care for the opinion of walking gestation chambers/sandwich makers. Seesh. Enough with this toxic femininity.

Heh, you haven't had a kid yet. never send out in the middle of a cold snowy night, ordered to bring back a blueberry cheese cake or not come back at all.

You weren't there man, you weren't there.


<==== cries

All the more reason for me to never have children.

...Wait, what do you mean I vowed to be the cool uncle? Are you sure about that? Gimme the tape.

...

Oh, dammit.
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Valentine Z wrote:**a m b i e n c e**
Kick cancer's ass for me, Owlograd!
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The Blaatschapen
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Posts: 58096
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:53 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Risottia wrote:As if we MENTM were supposed to care for the opinion of walking gestation chambers/sandwich makers. Seesh. Enough with this toxic femininity.

Heh, you haven't had a kid yet. never send out in the middle of a cold snowy night, ordered to bring back a blueberry cheese cake or not come back at all.

You weren't there man, you weren't there.


<==== cries


So I never came back at all.

Easiest way to break up with someone :)
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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:56 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Heh, you haven't had a kid yet. never send out in the middle of a cold snowy night, ordered to bring back a blueberry cheese cake or not come back at all.

You weren't there man, you weren't there.


<==== cries


So I never came back at all.

Easiest way to break up with someone :)

As Mr. Taylor tells us,,

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-w_IKGRFM
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The Republic of Fore
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1295
Founded: Apr 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Republic of Fore » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:40 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:I'd save myself first, dying to save someone else is pointless,

The point is for the other person to be alive.
you'll just be forgotten anyway.

Who cares?

Who cares if the other person is alive? They haven't done anything to deserve your sacrifice.

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Xeralaversian
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Jan 19, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Xeralaversian » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:05 pm

I would like to think the idea of men being left behind isn't with the intent of dying but with the intent of ingenuity, helping people, and the ability to possibly stay alive longer than the weak while waiting on help to arrive. We are speaking of 1911 with the Titanic, women and children were not the same as women and children now. Men on Titanic were in charge and could have filled boats better, controlled the chaos, so on and so forth.

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32748
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:07 pm

Xeralaversian wrote:We are speaking of 1911 with the Titanic

No, we aren't.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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The Blaatschapen
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Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:12 pm

Xeralaversian wrote:I would like to think the idea of men being left behind isn't with the intent of dying but with the intent of ingenuity, helping people, and the ability to possibly stay alive longer than the weak while waiting on help to arrive. We are speaking of 1911 with the Titanic, women and children were not the same as women and children now. Men on Titanic were in charge and could have filled boats better, controlled the chaos, so on and so forth.


Not just any men were in charge. Crew.

So male passengers should be discriminated against because some crew members happen to have the same gender?
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Destyntine
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Posts: 207
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Destyntine » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:37 pm

Wait, this whole thing gets me thinking, where would transgender, gender fluid, and non-binary people fall in this situation if women were prioritized over men?
Last edited by Destyntine on Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:38 pm

Destyntine wrote:Wait, this whole thing gets me thinking, where would transgender, gender fluid, and non-binary people fall in this situation if women were prioritized over men?


If history is anything to go by.... back of the line. Or not even in the line :(
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Zul-ar
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Posts: 254
Founded: Dec 18, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Zul-ar » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:02 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Destyntine wrote:Wait, this whole thing gets me thinking, where would transgender, gender fluid, and non-binary people fall in this situation if women were prioritized over men?


If history is anything to go by.... back of the line. Or not even in the line :(


I suppose if they passed as female they'd go with women, and if they passed as men they'd go with men. If they were unconventional looking, or out of the closet, I'd suspect they'd be at the back.
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