Is chivalry good

[Insaanistan]

what

Yah I don’t see why my sexual orientation matters or not. I guess you can’t criticize benevolent sexism without being gay.

Welp, guess I’m gay.

[Ethel mermania]

How is it sexism? It’s designed to benefit both men and women and is nothing to do with either lacking equal worth and intelligence.

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

And that is the easiest way to look up their skirts.

[Insaanistan]

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

And that is the easiest way to look up their skirts.

...
I did not need this visual.

[Ethel mermania]

And that is the easiest way to look up their skirts.

...
I did not need this visual.

Then you probably should foes list me. That is the perfect answer to the question.

[Zul-ar]

Then you’re completely missing the fucking point. Which seems to be a theme here recently.

That’s a bullshit excuse. There’s no need for antiquated sexist nonsense. If you want to people to be nice to each other, come up with a better ideology.

Lol spoken like a true modern. Why so hostile lmao? This is what we get for doing away with chivalry

The point is, it hasn't been replaced with a better ideology, has it? Nowadays people think like you do: we don't need to help those who are weaker than ourselves because everyone's equal

or, more often, and more perniciously, everyone should be equal so I will treat everyone equally--as though our platitudes were fact

Have you actually read through this thread? Tons of people have said that we should treat others with courtesy and respect, and give the extra assistance to anyone who is in need of it.

Chivalry, as defined by OP, is giving extra help to women on the basis that they are women. You can't just redefine something bad as something good, and then pretend everyone's being unreasonable. This discussion is about chivalry as defined by OP, not your definition. If you'd read through the thread, you'd have seen that a conversation about definitions has already been had.

What you're calling chivalry is actually called basic human decency, and the people you're debating are already agree that having basic human decency is, in fact, a good thing. Seems like there's no actual disagreement here. Congratulations, you may now pack your bags and go sue the school you went to for failing to teach you how to read.

[Geneviev]

I don't think it's a bad thing, really, but it can be a little unnecessary and some people are offended by it.

I think if a man just casually holds open a door for a woman even the most feminist ones don't get offended provided the gesture seems natural and he doesn't do it in such a way where body language and facial expressions or words indicate that he has really thought about this and is desperate for credit for being a gentleman.

That might be true. I've never really paid much attention, but I definitely remember people seeming offended by it in theory. I don't think anyone takes it so seriously in practice.

[Uan aa Boa]

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

And nobody feels threatened by statues.

[Thanatttynia]

Dumb ideas should be identified as sickness

Again, a bunch of bullshit.

Alright you've convinced me, wtf I hate chivalry now?

Have you actually read through this thread? Tons of people have said that we should treat others with courtesy and respect, and give the extra assistance to anyone who is in need of it.

Chivalry, as defined by OP, is giving extra help to women on the basis that they are women. You can't just redefine something bad as something good, and then pretend everyone's being unreasonable. This discussion is about chivalry as defined by OP, not your definition. If you'd read through the thread, you'd have seen that a conversation about definitions has already been had.

You miss my point. I am saying that the fashionable drive against chivalry is cover for a drive against decency. Chivalry is harder to defend because it is obviously unfairly gendered. People won't bother and then all talk of kindness to the weak goes out the window.

What you're calling chivalry is actually called basic human decency, and the people you're debating are already agree that having basic human decency is, in fact, a good thing. Seems like there's no actual disagreement here. Congratulations, you may now pack your bags and go sue the school you went to for failing to teach you how to read.

Also, bro who pissed in your cornflakes? Someone needs to teach you and this other one some manners. Don't be so rude if you expect a response, you're coming at me aggressively for literally 0 reason

Not that it matters but you are both very much proving my point

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

And that is the easiest way to look up their skirts.

I dont think the nookie is worth doing this all for.

[Ethel mermania]

And that is the easiest way to look up their skirts.

I dont think the nookie is worth doing this all for.

I am not so sure I agree. I certainly would have a lot more money if I did agree.

[New haven america]

Chivalry here means men protecting women in a way that involves treating them differently to other men.
My opinion

I think chivalry is good because it follows natural law and Islamic law, because it benefits both men and women and because women have a harder time in some areas (due to a range of factors ranging from patriarchy to biology)

No, it's not.

It's a code of behavior and ethics for European Knights to follow including: Cleanliness, weapon management, land ownership and acquisition, looting rules, meal requirements, training regimes, how to train squires, how to act around your lord, dueling and tourney rules, etc...

[Adamede]

Chivalry here means men protecting women in a way that involves treating them differently to other men.
My opinion

I think chivalry is good because it follows natural law and Islamic law, because it benefits both men and women and because women have a harder time in some areas (due to a range of factors ranging from patriarchy to biology)

No, it's not.

It's a code of behavior and ethics for European Knights to follow including: Cleanliness, weapon management, land ownership and acquisition, looting rules, meal requirements, training regimes, how to train squires, how to act around your lord, dueling and tourney rules, etc...

Also to follow the teachings and authority of the Church.

[Atheris]

Mutual respect > chivalry.

If a woman doesn't respect me, I'm not gonna respect her. Why should someone who insults me to my face be deserving of having a door held open for them? That being said, I hold the door open to most people, but if they disrespect me I'd gladly shut it in their face.

[Infected Mushroom]

I’m confused by the direction of this dialogue

I associate chivalry with honor, loyalty, heroism and courage. Why is the OP redefining it as a type of sexism? That’s not real chivalry. I’m sure a chivalrous knight would save someone if they are good, innocent, and in trouble, regardless of gender.

[The Free Joy State]

How is it sexism? It’s designed to benefit both men and women and is nothing to do with either lacking equal worth and intelligence.

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

It degrades both sexes.

It implies women are too weak and so -- for men inclined (which I thank god that far from all are) to gain advantage by "being nice" -- offers the chance to create an unequal situation where the woman (helpless and pathetic as chivalry sees her) may be made to see herself as the perennial "damsel in distress" -- unable to do anything for herself.

As for the men, chivalry implies they are not important enough to be worth helping and are for throwing away in pointless wars.

[Stahllicht]

I'll settle for treating everyone with courtesy, fairness and kindness. Just follow the Golden Rule, treat everyone as you would like others to treat you.

Simple as that.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

It degrades both sexes.

It implies women are too weak and so -- for men inclined (which I thank god that far from all are) to gain advantage by "being nice" -- offers the chance to create an unequal situation where the woman (helpless and pathetic as chivalry sees her) may be made to see herself as the perennial "damsel in distress" -- unable to do anything for herself.

As for the men, chivalry implies they are not important enough to be worth helping and are for throwing away in pointless wars.

Chivalry is when men die for bullshit and the more men who die for nothing, the chilvary-er it is.

Don't lose your life over a woman. There's better things to die for than toxic gender roles.

[Atheris]

It degrades both sexes.

It implies women are too weak and so -- for men inclined (which I thank god that far from all are) to gain advantage by "being nice" -- offers the chance to create an unequal situation where the woman (helpless and pathetic as chivalry sees her) may be made to see herself as the perennial "damsel in distress" -- unable to do anything for herself.

As for the men, chivalry implies they are not important enough to be worth helping and are for throwing away in pointless wars.

Chivalry is when men die for bullshit and the more men who die for nothing, the chilvary-er it is.

Don't lose your life over a woman. There's better things to die for than toxic gender roles.

Like candy, or bad sports opinions!

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I know a guy who believes in chivalry and he got mad when I called two girls "a couple of washed up two faced stupid bitches."

What, so I can call out individual men for being no good pieces of shit but I call out a woman for being a lowlife and now it's wrong? I'm just being honest with him. I see two manipulative toxically feminine wastes of space who use their beauty to manipulate the CEO of toxic masculinity (the guy they're mooching off of) into giving them the protection one gets from a big foreign guy with violence issues. Like sorry I dont respect them but there's nothing to respect and their private parts don't give them a respect card men don't get.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Chivalry is when men die for bullshit and the more men who die for nothing, the chilvary-er it is.

Don't lose your life over a woman. There's better things to die for than toxic gender roles.

Like candy, or bad sports opinions!

Real men die over a sporting game. Whether it's soccer, football, hockey or basketball, no one is more of a chad than guys who go into battle over a game. Fuck I'll start a fight over a game of chess. If you lose the game, just wack the other guy with the board.

[Cordel One]

Helping people is good, trying to be a knight in shining armor for women because they're women is weird.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Then you’re completely missing the fucking point. Which seems to be a theme here recently.

Why are you more offended by chivalry than by sexual harassment?

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Chivalry benefits men in what way? It literally involves putting women on a pedestal.

It degrades both sexes.

It implies women are too weak and so -- for men inclined (which I thank god that far from all are) to gain advantage by "being nice" -- offers the chance to create an unequal situation where the woman (helpless and pathetic as chivalry sees her) may be made to see herself as the perennial "damsel in distress" -- unable to do anything for herself.

As for the men, chivalry implies they are not important enough to be worth helping and are for throwing away in pointless wars.

Why are you assuming both that the reason is men are “unimportant” and that women are “weak”, do you have any evidence for your assertion?

[The Free Joy State]

Then you’re completely missing the fucking point. Which seems to be a theme here recently.

Why are you more offended by chivalry than by sexual harassment?

WTF? That was nowhere in Adamede's (unlinked) post. Here, for your convenience:

I'm ambivalent about chivalry itself as a concept but I think the rush to disparage it is typical of modern selfishness.

Then you’re completely missing the fucking point. Which seems to be a theme here recently.

The idea behind chivalry is that the strong and powerful should protect the weak and powerless, not out of self-interest but because it is conducive to the common good.

We lose that entirely with our 'fuck you, got mine' or 'everything must be equal' attitudes. It is ultimately better that such ideas are kept around even if they are unfairly gendered.

That’s a bullshit excuse. There’s no need for antiquated sexist nonsense. If you want to people to be nice to each other, come up with a better ideology.

Nowhere do they say they prefer sexual harassment to chivalry.

That's so far out of left field, it's somewhere near Mars.

It degrades both sexes.

It implies women are too weak and so -- for men inclined (which I thank god that far from all are) to gain advantage by "being nice" -- offers the chance to create an unequal situation where the woman (helpless and pathetic as chivalry sees her) may be made to see herself as the perennial "damsel in distress" -- unable to do anything for herself.

As for the men, chivalry implies they are not important enough to be worth helping and are for throwing away in pointless wars.

Why are you assuming both that the reason is men are “unimportant” and that women are “weak”, do you have any evidence for your assertion?

Chivalry is the medieval idea that men should be sent off to die in battle (which treats them as pointless cannon fodder) and that women need protecting -- purely because they're women -- and thus must be somehow incompetent.

And, yes, I do have research that "chivalry" often masks chauvinism. Benevolent sexism -- i.e. chivalry still reinforces the subjugation of women, but through the belief that women are "pure and warm yet helpless and incompetent beings in need of cherished protection from men.". Hostile sexists work through degradation. Benevolent sexists work through elevating a woman by "putting her on a pedestal".

A woman on a pedestal is still trapped and unable to move. Benevolent sexism is still demeaning.

EDIT: And, in case you can't properly access the SpringerLink, this contains a summary of the study.

[Deacarsia]

Yea, chivalry is good.