Tank Tour Tuition

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

- Did I mention that Iraq was wrong and Bush deserved the Haag for it?

Bush deserved ... an ice-cream?

[Infected Mushroom]

I’m very surprised that so many NS-ers are coming out as being against the Iraq War. I thought that this being a western forum, strong pro democratic tendencies and with the heavy support for a strong US presence in the Pacific, that the Iraq War was largely assumed to be morally justified. I’m surprised and shocked.

I (against the majority) consider the war unjustified but I picked it so the focus would be on an assessment of costs and benefits and not on the morality of the war; since I thought there was consensus there.

[The New California Republic]

I’m very surprised that so many NS-ers are coming out as being against the Iraq War. I thought that this being a western forum, strong pro democratic tendencies and with the heavy support for a strong US presence in the Pacific, that the Iraq War was largely assumed to be morally justified. I’m surprised and shocked.

Seriously? Do you not remember the mass protests against it? It should be no surprise whatsoever.

[Adamede]

I’m very surprised that so many NS-ers are coming out as being against the Iraq War. I thought that this being a western forum, strong pro democratic tendencies and with the heavy support for a strong US presence in the Pacific, that the Iraq War was largely assumed to be morally justified. I’m surprised and shocked.

I (against the majority) consider the war unjustified but I picked it so the focus would be on an assessment of costs and benefits and not on the morality of the war; since I thought there was consensus there.

I’m frankly not surprised that you’re not aware of reality. The Iraq war was incredibly divisive, nor is it comparable to American presence in the Pacific.

[Ifreann]

Plusses: + No US (or few anyway) tanks were destroyed in combat in the Iraq War, so survival chances would be very high.
+ Combat in a tank, by all accounts, was much less stressful than combat in other roles in the US army in Iraq, so comparatively low chance of trauma.
+ I love tanks so would be a neat, consequence-free way of feeding the interest.
+ Benefits afterwards not that bad.

Minusses: - The Iraq War was an illegal, immoral, offensive war that even 8 year old me could see was a bad idea and I couldn't even name the British prime minister back then.
- Even if I'm removed from it all sitting in a box, my actions would still be contributing to killing people. And especially during Desert Storm as a tanker you'd almost certainly kill multiple people.
- Having to relive the 2004 election, where the US, when faced with the choice of a smart centrist or a visibly idiotic right-winger, chose the latter.
- Having to fight the insurgency would not be fun.
- Being generally involved in an illegal, immoral, offensive war that directly has contributed to the stagnation of America would be unconscionable.
- This is just generally military service, except for being teleported to 18 years ago. And, observe, for I am not a soldier, thus clearly it's not an arrangement that entices me anyway.
- Did I mention that Iraq was wrong and Bush deserved the Haag for it?

Dozens of M1s were destroyed and hundreds needed to be shipped back to the US for repairs. When a tank rolls up the street, everyone shoots the tank first.

[Infected Mushroom]

Plusses: + No US (or few anyway) tanks were destroyed in combat in the Iraq War, so survival chances would be very high.
+ Combat in a tank, by all accounts, was much less stressful than combat in other roles in the US army in Iraq, so comparatively low chance of trauma.
+ I love tanks so would be a neat, consequence-free way of feeding the interest.
+ Benefits afterwards not that bad.

Minusses: - The Iraq War was an illegal, immoral, offensive war that even 8 year old me could see was a bad idea and I couldn't even name the British prime minister back then.
- Even if I'm removed from it all sitting in a box, my actions would still be contributing to killing people. And especially during Desert Storm as a tanker you'd almost certainly kill multiple people.
- Having to relive the 2004 election, where the US, when faced with the choice of a smart centrist or a visibly idiotic right-winger, chose the latter.
- Having to fight the insurgency would not be fun.
- Being generally involved in an illegal, immoral, offensive war that directly has contributed to the stagnation of America would be unconscionable.
- This is just generally military service, except for being teleported to 18 years ago. And, observe, for I am not a soldier, thus clearly it's not an arrangement that entices me anyway.
- Did I mention that Iraq was wrong and Bush deserved the Haag for it?

So then in light of all these relevant factors, what’s the determination?

What does the totality amount to?

[Chan Island]

I’m very surprised that so many NS-ers are coming out as being against the Iraq War. I thought that this being a western forum, strong pro democratic tendencies and with the heavy support for a strong US presence in the Pacific, that the Iraq War was largely assumed to be morally justified. I’m surprised and shocked.

I (against the majority) consider the war unjustified but I picked it so the focus would be on an assessment of costs and benefits and not on the morality of the war; since I thought there was consensus there.

The Iraq War was incredibly unpopular and divisive. In London something like 2 million people matched on parliament in opposition. Washington DC saw huge demonstrations that wouldn't be matched for at least a decade.

And a lot of the people who weren't decided got their views cemented a few years later when Bradley Manning leaked thousands of files from the war, including gratuitous killings of civilians and other war crimes.

I'm genuinely surprised you didn't know this.

[Valentine Z]

The thing about the Iraq War, from my limited armchair understanding and reading a few sources here and there, is that it is supposed to be one of those things that US did and to leave. Fight a war, causalities and losses, tragedy, then when it's all resolved, you need to go back and let the people settle and handle things on their own while ensuring an oversight here and there.

"It was catch as catch can, thinking on your feet. Not only me, but my Marines, sailors, and soldiers. I really think I invited in my command the thought that we weren't there as conquerors. We were there to help. I wanted to make sure that Iraq was for Iraqis, not a 51st state." - Lt. Col. David Couvillon, who was there as a Governor in occupied Iraq. More info about Lt. Col. David here.

Addendum: There is a Cracked.com article about the man being interviewed. The comedy listicle site (specifically one journalist named Robert Evans) covered and interviewed the man (title is "8 Things I Learned as an American Governor in Occupied Iraq", you can Google it - I don't want to link it because there's a SFW but risque picture in it), along with them visiting parts that were once ISIL-occupied. Even from a comedy site, it has serious tones and I recommend giving them a read regarding the Iraq War (and its follow-ups).

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I’m very surprised that so many NS-ers are coming out as being against the Iraq War. I thought that this being a western forum, strong pro democratic tendencies and with the heavy support for a strong US presence in the Pacific, that the Iraq War was largely assumed to be morally justified. I’m surprised and shocked.

I (against the majority) consider the war unjustified but I picked it so the focus would be on an assessment of costs and benefits and not on the morality of the war; since I thought there was consensus there.

The Iraq War wasn't pro democratic. You know the United States has been a danger to freedom worldwide since 1953 and the war was just a combination of the desire for oil, war contractors needing more violence, bush wanting revenge for the attempt on daddy Bush's life and Israel's desire to see a major enemy destroyed.

Most people here know Iraq was bullshit. Also there shouldn't be much of an American military presence in the pacific or elsewhere because we shouldn't be the world policeman.

[Ethel mermania]

The thing about the Iraq War, from my limited armchair understanding and reading a few sources here and there, is that it is supposed to be one of those things that US did and to leave. Fight a war, causalities and losses, tragedy, then when it's all resolved, you need to go back and let the people settle and handle things on their own while ensuring an oversight here and there.

"It was catch as catch can, thinking on your feet. Not only me, but my Marines, sailors, and soldiers. I really think I invited in my command the thought that we weren't there as conquerors. We were there to help. I wanted to make sure that Iraq was for Iraqis, not a 51st state." - Lt. Col. David Couvillon, who was there as a Governor in occupied Iraq. More info about Lt. Col. David here.

Addendum: There is a Cracked.com article about the man being interviewed. The comedy listicle site (specifically one journalist named Robert Evans) covered and interviewed the man (title is "8 Things I Learned as an American Governor in Occupied Iraq", you can Google it - I don't want to link it because there's a SFW but risque picture in it), along with them visiting parts that were once ISIL-occupied. Even from a comedy site, it has serious tones and I recommend giving them a read regarding the Iraq War (and its follow-ups).

The Bush administration for some god forsaken reason though they could topple saddam and western style democracy would automagically spring into place with only minor help from the US after the war.

[Chan Island]

- Did I mention that Iraq was wrong and Bush deserved the Haag for it?

Bush deserved ... an ice-cream?

The Hague. For some reason I had the dutch spelling in my head and didn't question it.

Plusses: + No US (or few anyway) tanks were destroyed in combat in the Iraq War, so survival chances would be very high.
+ Combat in a tank, by all accounts, was much less stressful than combat in other roles in the US army in Iraq, so comparatively low chance of trauma.
+ I love tanks so would be a neat, consequence-free way of feeding the interest.
+ Benefits afterwards not that bad.

Minusses: - The Iraq War was an illegal, immoral, offensive war that even 8 year old me could see was a bad idea and I couldn't even name the British prime minister back then.
- Even if I'm removed from it all sitting in a box, my actions would still be contributing to killing people. And especially during Desert Storm as a tanker you'd almost certainly kill multiple people.
- Having to relive the 2004 election, where the US, when faced with the choice of a smart centrist or a visibly idiotic right-winger, chose the latter.
- Having to fight the insurgency would not be fun.
- Being generally involved in an illegal, immoral, offensive war that directly has contributed to the stagnation of America would be unconscionable.
- This is just generally military service, except for being teleported to 18 years ago. And, observe, for I am not a soldier, thus clearly it's not an arrangement that entices me anyway.
- Did I mention that Iraq was wrong and Bush deserved the Haag for it?

Dozens of M1s were destroyed and hundreds needed to be shipped back to the US for repairs. When a tank rolls up the street, everyone shoots the tank first.

A few dozen lost in a war with thousands deployed. And most of those times the crew were getting out OK. No matter what the exact numbers are, the general overall point still remains that tankers had a very high survival rate in the US army in Iraq.

Plusses: + No US (or few anyway) tanks were destroyed in combat in the Iraq War, so survival chances would be very high.
+ Combat in a tank, by all accounts, was much less stressful than combat in other roles in the US army in Iraq, so comparatively low chance of trauma.
+ I love tanks so would be a neat, consequence-free way of feeding the interest.
+ Benefits afterwards not that bad.

Minusses: - The Iraq War was an illegal, immoral, offensive war that even 8 year old me could see was a bad idea and I couldn't even name the British prime minister back then.
- Even if I'm removed from it all sitting in a box, my actions would still be contributing to killing people. And especially during Desert Storm as a tanker you'd almost certainly kill multiple people.
- Having to relive the 2004 election, where the US, when faced with the choice of a smart centrist or a visibly idiotic right-winger, chose the latter.
- Having to fight the insurgency would not be fun.
- Being generally involved in an illegal, immoral, offensive war that directly has contributed to the stagnation of America would be unconscionable.
- This is just generally military service, except for being teleported to 18 years ago. And, observe, for I am not a soldier, thus clearly it's not an arrangement that entices me anyway.
- Did I mention that Iraq was wrong and Bush deserved the Haag for it?

So then in light of all these relevant factors, what’s the determination?

What does the totality amount to?

.... It should be obvious that I'm totally against going. What kind of person would you be if you said you'd fight for a leader who deserves to be tried as a war criminal, in your own opinion? Why would I want to fight in a war I think was completely immoral and self-destructive?

Also didn't you notice I had far more minuses than plusses?