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Who is the biggest threat to America in your opinion?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which country is the biggest threat to America?

China
108
70%
Russia
16
10%
Israel
18
12%
Iran
5
3%
North Korea
4
3%
ISIS
4
3%
 
Total votes : 155

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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Posts: 4401
Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:How about Russian and Chinese imperialism? America is not the only imperialist nation.

This veers into whataboutism because I doubt that you are prepared to accept that America is imperialist.

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:Heck, in 2014, Russia invaded Crimea!

Imperialism is not "one country goes to another to do things".

I just said that it wasn't the only imperialist nation. Not that it wasn't.
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Thialrer
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Postby Thialrer » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:48 pm

The enemy within. America itself.
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Feyrisshire
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Posts: 268
Founded: Nov 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Feyrisshire » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:48 pm

The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:Chinese and Russian f###ery is nearly guaranteed to be magnitudes worse than anything the US has ever done.


People in Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba, and those Middle Eastern kids killed by US drone strikes tend to differ.
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Romextly
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Romextly » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:49 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:Chinese and Russian f###ery is nearly guaranteed to be magnitudes worse than anything the US has ever done.


People in Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba, and those Middle Eastern kids killed by US drone strikes tend to differ.

What did the US do in Venezuela?

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Feyrisshire
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Posts: 268
Founded: Nov 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Feyrisshire » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:50 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:I just said that it wasn't the only imperialist nation. Not that it wasn't.


In all of history perhaps.

But today, America is the most prominent one.
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The Federal Government of Iowa
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Posts: 671
Founded: Oct 17, 2017
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Postby The Federal Government of Iowa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:50 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:Chinese and Russian f###ery is nearly guaranteed to be magnitudes worse than anything the US has ever done.


People in Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba, and those Middle Eastern kids killed by drone strikes tend to differ.

I'm not saying that the US hasn't done anything bad. this is also whataboutism. also feel the need to mention that they weren't the intended targets of those strikes.
China is a greater threat to the world, period.
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Dangine
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Posts: 332
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Dangine » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm

The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:
Feyrisshire wrote:
Generally true.

But imperialism had a tendency to weaken when faced with inter-power competition - something that America is experiencing only now, and increased Russian and Chinese strength would be welcome as a bulwark against American imperialism and reduce its tendency to screw around the Third World.

Chinese and Russian f###ery is nearly guaranteed to be magnitudes worse than anything the US has ever done.

Last time I checked, Russia and China weren't the ones that fucked up in Iraq and led to the rise of ISIS. Hmmmmm, I wonder who that was.
Last edited by Dangine on Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Federal Government of Iowa
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Founded: Oct 17, 2017
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Postby The Federal Government of Iowa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:I just said that it wasn't the only imperialist nation. Not that it wasn't.


In all of history perhaps.

But today, America is the most prominent one.

lol
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The Federal Government of Iowa
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Posts: 671
Founded: Oct 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Federal Government of Iowa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:52 pm

Dangine wrote:
The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:Chinese and Russian f###ery is nearly guaranteed to be magnitudes worse than anything the US has ever done.

Last time I checked, Russia and China weren't the ones that fucked up in Iraq and lead to the rise of ISIS. Hmmmmm, I wonder who that was.

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Romextly
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Posts: 9577
Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Romextly » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:52 pm

I think that the biggest enemy is China. While I do know that the US has been doing horrible acts in the name of "Freedom", they have a possibility to change. The US semi-follows the vote of the people while the CCP rules with rigged elections to save some face as being Democratic

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Feyrisshire
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Posts: 268
Founded: Nov 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Feyrisshire » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

Romextly wrote:What did the US do in Venezuela?


They made trade sanctions that made living standards poor for people. They refused to support the leader that they elected. The US sent men to assassinate their President.

This is a contrast to China and Russia, which isn't trying to screw Venezuela by another trade sanctions.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

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Romextly
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Romextly » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
Romextly wrote:What did the US do in Venezuela?


They made trade sanctions that made living standards poor for people. They refused to support the leader that they elected. The US sent men to assassinate their President.

This is a contrast to China and Russia, which isn't trying to screw Venezuela by another trade sanctions.

So the US is the reason why Venezuala has failed?

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The Federal Government of Iowa
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Posts: 671
Founded: Oct 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Federal Government of Iowa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 pm

Romextly wrote:
Feyrisshire wrote:
They made trade sanctions that made living standards poor for people. They refused to support the leader that they elected. The US sent men to assassinate their President.

This is a contrast to China and Russia, which isn't trying to screw Venezuela by another trade sanctions.

So the US is the reason why Venezuala has failed?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Super Cool Florida
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Dec 18, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Super Cool Florida » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
Romextly wrote:What did the US do in Venezuela?


They made trade sanctions that made living standards poor for people. They refused to support the leader that they elected. The US sent men to assassinate their President.

This is a contrast to China and Russia, which isn't trying to screw Venezuela by another trade sanctions.


The U.S did contribute but it wasn’t the main problem. Venezuela’s economy pre-crisis depended on oil. Loads of oil. And the Venezuelan oil industry was very corrupt. Corruption and oil is like oil and water; it doesn’t mix well.
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Romextly
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
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Postby Romextly » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:57 pm

Super Cool Florida wrote:
Feyrisshire wrote:
They made trade sanctions that made living standards poor for people. They refused to support the leader that they elected. The US sent men to assassinate their President.

This is a contrast to China and Russia, which isn't trying to screw Venezuela by another trade sanctions.


The U.S did contribute but it wasn’t the main problem. Venezuela’s economy pre-crisis depended on oil. Loads of oil. And the Venezuelan oil industry was very corrupt. Corruption and oil is like oil and water; it doesn’t mix well.

That and the state-directed managers of the oil industry were inept

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Feyrisshire
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Posts: 268
Founded: Nov 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Feyrisshire » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:57 pm

The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:also feel the need to mention that they weren't the intended targets of those strikes.


Then if they weren't the intended target, why is it that 90% of those targeted by UAV strikes always tend to be civilians and children?

This was reported in 2015, the Pentagon has time to change these and maybe hit more accurately, no?

The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:China is a greater threat to the world, period.


hmm.... those children hit by drone strikes aren't seems so convinced

The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:Obama. Don't blame the mistakes of one person on the whole nation geez


Correct!

But Obama didn't start that. Nor did Trump stop that neither.
Last edited by Feyrisshire on Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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National Capitalist United States
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Founded: Dec 07, 2020
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Postby National Capitalist United States » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:57 pm

Super Cool Florida wrote:
Feyrisshire wrote:
They made trade sanctions that made living standards poor for people. They refused to support the leader that they elected. The US sent men to assassinate their President.

This is a contrast to China and Russia, which isn't trying to screw Venezuela by another trade sanctions.


The U.S did contribute but it wasn’t the main problem. Venezuela’s economy pre-crisis depended on oil. Loads of oil. And the Venezuelan oil industry was very corrupt. Corruption and oil is like oil and water; it doesn’t mix well.

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 pm

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Dangine
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Founded: Nov 02, 2018
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Postby Dangine » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:02 pm

The Federal Government of Iowa wrote:
Dangine wrote:Last time I checked, Russia and China weren't the ones that fucked up in Iraq and lead to the rise of ISIS. Hmmmmm, I wonder who that was.

Obama. Don't blame the mistakes of one person on the whole nation geez

Obama was the one who invaded Iraq?
The media and Congress were complicit in the invasion, so no, it was not one person.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:03 pm

Ourselves, currently. We are the reason we're vulnerable to countries such as China and Russia. It's like that terrible 90s pop punk song, "My Worst Enemy." That is us.
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Intaglio
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Postby Intaglio » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:05 pm

Japan and Pacific States wrote:America's biggest threat is an internal one. Atleast, in my own opinion it is.

The Democrats. I have reasoning for this, this is no troll, no sort of gas lighting, it's just in my own opinion. Trump won the 2016 election. Throughout his tenure as president, the democrats with support from media such as CNN and all forged a campaign belittling his supporters with name calling, from acclaims to them being nothing more than "Russian bots" or outright, as Hilary Clinton put them. Deplorables. From there, they pursued an investigation which factually did not get the result they wanted, and merely wasted US taxpayer dollars with the claim this investigation would oust trump(Yes, I am referring to the "Russiagate" investigation). For the whole time of his tenure they acclaimed he won the election only due in part to election fraud and other means with interference, which they screamed endlessly about for the whole of the four years he was president.

Now with multiple mathematical anomalies being outright dismissed as "nonsense" and even those who claimed the 2016 election was meddled with or that there was election fraud at the time. They say "The 2020 election was the most secure election in the nation's history" or alternatively(ironically), that there was no possibility of election fraud or meddling. Ultimately they're outright gas lighting anyone who says otherwise while preaching "unity", only to people they turn to and essentially spit in the faces of for eluding to the possibility that the 2020 election may not have been as sound as they(the democrats) acclaim, and dare to ask for investigations to ensure it is secure. Now with Big tech joining in the mix with booting off what they claim to be nothing more than lunatics who refuse to accept the election or alternatively, conspiracy theorists of the same calibre.

It is only further deepening the divide between the two political camps in the United States. And from my perspective as an Brit looking inwards into the US, the democrats as well as blatantly aligned media and big tech are causing this. It's not an outside force the US at this moment needs to worry about, it is it's own political tribes, which I dare to say, tribes is at this moment the most accurate description of either side. There's been a couple attempts at reaching out from one side in good faith while the other has "tried" while acclaiming a couple politicians on the otherside are the equivalent of Joseph Goebbles.

In my own opinion, as the above has been and merely is. The "great experiment" that was the American Republic is coming to an end unless there is a radical change is both parties where they atleast make the attempt to be entirely cordial to one and another, if not then the experiment that was America will be guaranteed to come to a close, how it does, I have no clue. But I do know that the best example to draw on for comparison at this moment is Yugoslavia, after the death of Tito.

Even then it's quite easy to see. Neither side is seeking to reconcile with the other, and is only escalating quite... Unnerving talks against one another, this leads no where productive.

You act as if there isn't a conservative side of the media that was heavily aligned with Trump.

And also, what anomalies are you talking about and where is your source of these alleged anomalies? And exactly what is it you want to be investigated and why should it be investigated? The DOJ, which was headed by one of Trump's ow people, said twice that they've found no evidence of voter fraud. Trump and his legal team took multiple cases to court and not one of them worked out.And just for the record, the person who said it was the most secure election ever was Trump's own election chief, who was fired because he refused to repeat Trump's claims of voter fraud.
Last edited by Intaglio on Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:06 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:You're also using double standards - apparently the last act of imperialism by US is Spanish-American War, yet Russia and China has no formal colonies today. Why would they be considered "imperialist" from your POV?


Where exactly were you when the Russians illegally invaded and occupied Crimea, formally integrating it into their territory as a permanent addition or when the Chinese illegally built military bases in the Spratleys to solidify their bogus claim to the area (and it's oil) by ensuring all the militarily weaker claimants couldn't contest it?

But of course because these are eastern nations I guess they get a free pass, huh? :roll:

Why Leftists bother to defend Russia and China anymore is beyond me. They're not on your side anymore, dude. You can condemn their imperialism and still condemn America's interventionism. No one is saying you can't. It doesn't make you a traitor to the revolution.

I have already stated a coherent POV earlier that inter-power conflict tends to weaken imperialism - meaning that if Russia and China are both imperialists - competition with the United States would weaken them all.


And as history tells us: that's bullshit. When imperialist powers weaken each other it just means new imperialist powers swoop in to fill the void left by the crumbling empires that came before them. This has been happening since before recorded history. Empire rises, conquers all opposition, faces it's greatest rival, then gets beaten either by said rival or by some new upstart empire. This is human history 101. What, do you think all the Third World will unite when all the superpowers beat each other up too much to interfere in their politics? No. The regional powers will expand their influence and territory now that there are no superpowers to keep them in check, and then they'll become the new superpowers. This is the way it's always been.

With the U.S. as the undisputed sole superpower the world is arguably better off because if China or Russia (or, God forbid, both) rise up to challenge that dominance then all you'll be seeing is a repeat of the Cold War: proxy wars in the Third World overthrowing governments left and right, stirring up violent revolutions and blood civil wars, propping up genocidal dictators, etc. creating massive global instability that the Third World really doesn't need.

Unless you're some kind of accelerationist I don't see how you could believe this would be a good thing. Power vacuums are inevitably going to be filled no matter what you try to do, and usually the ones filling the power vacuum are worse than the last guy. Imagine if China overtook the U.S. The world would undoubtedly be in an even worse position.

I would also argue that Russia and China's imperialist tendencies are still emergent - compared to the United States, which is fully developed.


As evidenced by the former's violent seizure of territory within the last 20 years whereas the last time the U.S. expanded it's territory was in 1898. Yes, clearly the U.S. is the bigger threat. :roll:
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:19 pm

As a cartoon character once stated.


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Japan and Pacific States
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Postby Japan and Pacific States » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:21 pm

Intaglio wrote:
Japan and Pacific States wrote:America's biggest threat is an internal one. Atleast, in my own opinion it is.

The Democrats. I have reasoning for this, this is no troll, no sort of gas lighting, it's just in my own opinion. Trump won the 2016 election. Throughout his tenure as president, the democrats with support from media such as CNN and all forged a campaign belittling his supporters with name calling, from acclaims to them being nothing more than "Russian bots" or outright, as Hilary Clinton put them. Deplorables. From there, they pursued an investigation which factually did not get the result they wanted, and merely wasted US taxpayer dollars with the claim this investigation would oust trump(Yes, I am referring to the "Russiagate" investigation). For the whole time of his tenure they acclaimed he won the election only due in part to election fraud and other means with interference, which they screamed endlessly about for the whole of the four years he was president.

Now with multiple mathematical anomalies being outright dismissed as "nonsense" and even those who claimed the 2016 election was meddled with or that there was election fraud at the time. They say "The 2020 election was the most secure election in the nation's history" or alternatively(ironically), that there was no possibility of election fraud or meddling. Ultimately they're outright gas lighting anyone who says otherwise while preaching "unity", only to people they turn to and essentially spit in the faces of for eluding to the possibility that the 2020 election may not have been as sound as they(the democrats) acclaim, and dare to ask for investigations to ensure it is secure. Now with Big tech joining in the mix with booting off what they claim to be nothing more than lunatics who refuse to accept the election or alternatively, conspiracy theorists of the same calibre.

It is only further deepening the divide between the two political camps in the United States. And from my perspective as an Brit looking inwards into the US, the democrats as well as blatantly aligned media and big tech are causing this. It's not an outside force the US at this moment needs to worry about, it is it's own political tribes, which I dare to say, tribes is at this moment the most accurate description of either side. There's been a couple attempts at reaching out from one side in good faith while the other has "tried" while acclaiming a couple politicians on the otherside are the equivalent of Joseph Goebbles.

In my own opinion, as the above has been and merely is. The "great experiment" that was the American Republic is coming to an end unless there is a radical change is both parties where they atleast make the attempt to be entirely cordial to one and another, if not then the experiment that was America will be guaranteed to come to a close, how it does, I have no clue. But I do know that the best example to draw on for comparison at this moment is Yugoslavia, after the death of Tito.

Even then it's quite easy to see. Neither side is seeking to reconcile with the other, and is only escalating quite... Unnerving talks against one another, this leads no where productive.

You act as if there isn't a conservative side of the media that was heavily aligned with Trump. And also, what anomalies are you talking about and where is your source of these alleged anomalies? And exactly what is it you want to be investigated and why should it be investigated?


I never said there wasn't a conservative side of the media, however they did not partake and do not currently to my knowledge, call the otherside, the ever so overtly used insult of "nazis". As for the anomalies. I'm referring to Biden winning 477 counties across the United States(while in contrast his predecessor, Obama won 873.

Yet taking into consideration the counties which were mostly won were part of what one may call "big cities", which saw an as yet to my knowledge large scale exodus of population due to the lockdowns in these areas. In comparison, Trump had won just mildly over 2,000 counties. As well as 18, what the yanks call. "Bellweather" towns or what have you..
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