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by Neutraligon » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:45 pm
by The Alma Mater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:49 pm
Freiheit Reich wrote:Picairn wrote:Except their death tolls are far lower than the US. The UK, which has the highest death toll out of all countries in Europe, has 83k deaths as of January 13, 2021. That's not even half the US' deaths, which sit at nearly 390k. https://www.statista.com/statistics/109 ... y-country/
We blame Trump for his inept preparations for the virus and his neglect that leads to over 300k American deaths. This mantra of "Don't blame Trump for the virus" is so boring and tiresome, it has been debunked repeatedly but some people still won't get it.
Oh and in absolute numbers, the US still ranks first in Covid deaths.
You need to go by per-capita rates. The USA also has a much bigger population than Belgium or the UK.
by The Alma Mater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:50 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Freiheit Reich wrote:
Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).
A week before Biden is sworn in and he's already criticized for not genie blinking away a year of Trump's incompetent and destructive response to the pandemic.
by Comerciante » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:51 pm
by Bombadil » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:52 pm
by Bombadil » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:53 pm
by The Alma Mater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:53 pm
Zurkerx wrote:Yeah, there's no saving the Republican voter base: GOP voters choose Trump. However, Trump does poorly enough with "traditional Republicans" that while it would be enough for him to win the nomination in 2024, they wouldn't be enough to carry him to victory, especially since Independents support his removal and oppose him as a nominee.
Yet, while Republicans appear united, it's the Trump Type Republicans that are very united: Just 1% of Trump Republicans — versus about one-in-four traditional Republicans — think Trump should be removed from office. The Trump Republicans are still large enough of a group to either stay and dominate primary politics or walk away if Trump is cast out, which would weaken the GOP's force posture against Democrats.
That said, I still think McConnell and others will take the short term pain over the long term gains they can make.
by Eahland » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:57 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:Removing Trump after the 20th you mean, so he can never run again ?
A pity that that would still make him an ex-president with all the associated rights and benefits - to be denied those you need to be removed before your term ends.
by Freiheit Reich » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:06 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Freiheit Reich wrote:
Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).
A week before Biden is sworn in and he's already criticized for not genie blinking away a year of Trump's incompetent and destructive response to the pandemic.
by Kowani » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:07 pm
by The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:08 pm
Freiheit Reich wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:A week before Biden is sworn in and he's already criticized for not genie blinking away a year of Trump's incompetent and destructive response to the pandemic.
The only things that Trump failed to do is to encourage people to wash their hands more, social distance, reduce visits to elderly people, and establish a national health care program. Many (including me) are afraid to go to hospitals in the USA due to high costs which means people will delay or not get treatment and show up to work until they physically are passing out. He should have been more like Dr. Ron Paul and admit the virus was serious (Dr. Paul mentioned that it killed people) but that people should be allowed to make choices after having the facts. I believe Trump wanted to show that he was cool under fire and tough. He is an old-school leader that doesn't believe in showing softness or fear because that could be implied as weakness.
Many companies lack sick days at work, so if workers feel sick, they still go. One place I worked at required a doctor's note to get a sick day so I usually showed up when sick (even when I could barely speak). If I am forced to leave my home anyways, I might as well get paid for it instead of paying to see a doctor and not getting my work pay. I would be happy to call in and not get paid but the issue is having to leave home and go to a doctor when bed rest and cold & flu medicine are sometimes enough. These dumb policies encourage people to spread diseases (and this is a worldwide situation). Trump is not to blame for dumb policies like this.
by Salus Maior » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:09 pm
by Comerciante » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:09 pm
Freiheit Reich wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:A week before Biden is sworn in and he's already criticized for not genie blinking away a year of Trump's incompetent and destructive response to the pandemic.
The only things that Trump failed to do is to encourage people to wash their hands more, social distance, reduce visits to elderly people, and establish a national health care program. Many (including me) are afraid to go to hospitals in the USA due to high costs which means people will delay or not get treatment and show up to work until they physically are passing out. He should have been more like Dr. Ron Paul and admit the virus was serious (Dr. Paul mentioned that it killed people) but that people should be allowed to make choices after having the facts. I believe Trump wanted to show that he was cool under fire and tough. He is an old-school leader that doesn't believe in showing softness or fear because that could be implied as weakness.
by Omniabstracta » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:11 pm
by Bombadil » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:12 pm
by Cannot think of a name » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:14 pm
Freiheit Reich wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:A week before Biden is sworn in and he's already criticized for not genie blinking away a year of Trump's incompetent and destructive response to the pandemic.
The only things that Trump failed to do is to encourage people to wash their hands more, social distance, reduce visits to elderly people, and establish a national health care program.
Freiheit Reich wrote: Many (including me) are afraid to go to hospitals in the USA due to high costs which means people will delay or not get treatment and show up to work until they physically are passing out.
Freiheit Reich wrote: He should have been more like Dr. Ron Paul and admit the virus was serious (Dr. Paul mentioned that it killed people) but that people should be allowed to make choices after having the facts. I believe Trump wanted to show that he was cool under fire and tough. He is an old-school leader that doesn't believe in showing softness or fear because that could be implied as weakness.
Freiheit Reich wrote:Many companies lack sick days at work, so if workers feel sick, they still go. One place I worked at required a doctor's note to get a sick day so I usually showed up when sick (even when I could barely speak). If I am forced to leave my home anyways, I might as well get paid for it instead of paying to see a doctor and not getting my work pay. I would be happy to call in and not get paid but the issue is having to leave home and go to a doctor when bed rest and cold & flu medicine are sometimes enough. These dumb policies encourage people to spread diseases (and this is a worldwide situation). Trump is not to blame for dumb policies like this.
by Cannot think of a name » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:16 pm
by The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:17 pm
by Cannot think of a name » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:18 pm
Comerciante wrote:Freiheit Reich wrote:
The only things that Trump failed to do is to encourage people to wash their hands more, social distance, reduce visits to elderly people, and establish a national health care program. Many (including me) are afraid to go to hospitals in the USA due to high costs which means people will delay or not get treatment and show up to work until they physically are passing out. He should have been more like Dr. Ron Paul and admit the virus was serious (Dr. Paul mentioned that it killed people) but that people should be allowed to make choices after having the facts. I believe Trump wanted to show that he was cool under fire and tough. He is an old-school leader that doesn't believe in showing softness or fear because that could be implied as weakness.
So in other words he's a relic from another era that has no business running a modern nation and failed to do the bare minimum to keep people safe?
Boy, who could have seen that coming?
by Kowani » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:18 pm
by Bombadil » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:19 pm
by Salus Maior » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:19 pm
by Rusozak » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:22 pm
by Salus Maior » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:22 pm
by Freiheit Reich » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:24 pm
Bombadil wrote:Freiheit Reich wrote:Peru and Mexico and Brazil also had high death rates and they are mostly non-white.
Personally, I would rather have a higher death rate and not bend towards dictator like tactics. New Zealand and Australia behaved eerily like China with their trampling of human rights to stop the virus. Short-term, it looks great that they solved the issue. Long-term, it may cause their country to become an authoritarian nation because leaders know that they can trample rights in the name of 'safety.'
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" We must not forget these words.
I'm afraid the events of last week showed that America is far closer to becoming an authoritarian hellhole than Australia or NZ.. at this point you're really just talking unsubstantiated idealistic bullshit. Being sensible is not the same as being authoritarian. Taking due precautions in a pandemic given near 3M deaths worldwide is not sliding into authoritarianism. Listening to medical advice given a viral disease is not restricting freedom.
It's amazing the claims people make when their very own are doing exactly those claims.
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