NationStates

Freiheit Reich wrote:Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).

Corrian wrote:

Kowani wrote:BIden's director of National Intelligence (Avril Haines) will get her confirmation hearing on Friday

But...the Senate doesn't reconvene until the 19th?

Picairn wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).

If Biden actually puts in a massive effort to combat the virus then I'll cheer him on. Trump's inept preparation and downplaying of the virus led the US to this mess.

Freiheit Reich wrote:

Postauthoritarian America wrote:It needs to be said: this worst administration in the history of the nation is checked out while every day more people die from COVID than died on 9/11/01. If for nothing more than that Trump needs to go.

Plenty of socialist nations in Europe (which are mostly led by liberal leaders) have high death tolls as well. If they are liberal and have harsh restrictions on civil liberties, why do they also have high death tolls?

I hope you are not blaming Trump for the virus deaths. Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the UK have similar death rates to the USA.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of January 13, 2021, by country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

Bombadil wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Plenty of socialist nations in Europe (which are mostly led by liberal leaders) have high death tolls as well. If they are liberal and have harsh restrictions on civil liberties, why do they also have high death tolls?

I hope you are not blaming Trump for the virus deaths. Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the UK have similar death rates to the USA.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of January 13, 2021, by country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

Basically Anglo-Saxon men have come out looking very irresponsible and irrational this past year. As far as I can tell the main topic in the UK around Covid is 'yes but can we go to the pub', getting down to the ridiculous debate as to whether a scotch egg is a substantial meal.

Between white people's attitude to the virus and the white supremacists who stormed the Capitol and overwhelmingly support Trump, let's just say Brand White Man took a beating.

Near all of Asia including Australia and NZ are pretty ok with things, and we probably have harsher restrictions as well.

Having said that, having a leader so stupid as to downplay, mix message and even fucking catch it themselves - hello Trump and Boris Johnson - is appalling lack of leadership.

It may well have been bad but it didn't have to be so very bad.

Zurkerx wrote:Yeah, there's no saving the Republican voter base: GOP voters choose Trump. However, Trump does poorly enough with "traditional Republicans" that while it would be enough for him to win the nomination in 2024, they wouldn't be enough to carry him to victory, especially since Independents support his removal and oppose him as a nominee.

Yet, while Republicans appear united, it's the Trump Type Republicans that are very united: Just 1% of Trump Republicans — versus about one-in-four traditional Republicans — think Trump should be removed from office. The Trump Republicans are still large enough of a group to either stay and dominate primary politics or walk away if Trump is cast out, which would weaken the GOP's force posture against Democrats.

That said, I still think McConnell and others will take the short term pain over the long term gains they can make.

Kowani wrote:

Zurkerx wrote:Yeah, there's no saving the Republican voter base: GOP voters choose Trump. However, Trump does poorly enough with "traditional Republicans" that while it would be enough for him to win the nomination in 2024, they wouldn't be enough to carry him to victory, especially since Independents support his removal and oppose him as a nominee.

Yet, while Republicans appear united, it's the Trump Type Republicans that are very united: Just 1% of Trump Republicans — versus about one-in-four traditional Republicans — think Trump should be removed from office. The Trump Republicans are still large enough of a group to either stay and dominate primary politics or walk away if Trump is cast out, which would weaken the GOP's force posture against Democrats.

That said, I still think McConnell and others will take the short term pain over the long term gains they can make.

Josh Hawley, though, got fucked

Kowani wrote:

Zurkerx wrote:Yeah, there's no saving the Republican voter base: GOP voters choose Trump. However, Trump does poorly enough with "traditional Republicans" that while it would be enough for him to win the nomination in 2024, they wouldn't be enough to carry him to victory, especially since Independents support his removal and oppose him as a nominee.

Yet, while Republicans appear united, it's the Trump Type Republicans that are very united: Just 1% of Trump Republicans — versus about one-in-four traditional Republicans — think Trump should be removed from office. The Trump Republicans are still large enough of a group to either stay and dominate primary politics or walk away if Trump is cast out, which would weaken the GOP's force posture against Democrats.

That said, I still think McConnell and others will take the short term pain over the long term gains they can make.

Josh Hawley, though, got fucked

Sanghyeok wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
Basically Anglo-Saxon men have come out looking very irresponsible and irrational this past year. As far as I can tell the main topic in the UK around Covid is 'yes but can we go to the pub', getting down to the ridiculous debate as to whether a scotch egg is a substantial meal.

Between white people's attitude to the virus and the white supremacists who stormed the Capitol and overwhelmingly support Trump, let's just say Brand White Man took a beating.

Near all of Asia including Australia and NZ are pretty ok with things, and we probably have harsher restrictions as well.

Having said that, having a leader so stupid as to downplay, mix message and even fucking catch it themselves - hello Trump and Boris Johnson - is appalling lack of leadership.

It may well have been bad but it didn't have to be so very bad.

I don't think Johnson ever downplayed the virus, even if he did mishandle it.

Freiheit Reich wrote:

Eahland wrote:There were more American deaths from COVID-19 yesterday than there were in the Iraq War.

At current rates, we'll reach "more American deaths from COVID-19 than from World War II" before Trump leaves office. We're already at more than three World War Is.

Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).

Freiheit Reich wrote:

Eahland wrote:There were more American deaths from COVID-19 yesterday than there were in the Iraq War.

At current rates, we'll reach "more American deaths from COVID-19 than from World War II" before Trump leaves office. We're already at more than three World War Is.

Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).

Bombadil wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Plenty of socialist nations in Europe (which are mostly led by liberal leaders) have high death tolls as well. If they are liberal and have harsh restrictions on civil liberties, why do they also have high death tolls?

I hope you are not blaming Trump for the virus deaths. Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the UK have similar death rates to the USA.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of January 13, 2021, by country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

Basically Anglo-Saxon men have come out looking very irresponsible and irrational this past year. As far as I can tell the main topic in the UK around Covid is 'yes but can we go to the pub', getting down to the ridiculous debate as to whether a scotch egg is a substantial meal.

Between white people's attitude to the virus and the white supremacists who stormed the Capitol and overwhelmingly support Trump, let's just say Brand White Man took a beating.

Near all of Asia including Australia and NZ are pretty ok with things, and we probably have harsher restrictions as well.

Having said that, having a leader so stupid as to downplay, mix message and even fucking catch it themselves - hello Trump and Boris Johnson - is appalling lack of leadership.

It may well have been bad but it didn't have to be so very bad.

Picairn wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:Who will you blame in a couple weeks when Biden is in charge if people keep dying? Trump is not God (despite what a few enthusiastic people might believe).

If Biden actually puts in a massive effort to combat the virus then I'll cheer him on. Trump's inept preparation and downplaying of the virus led the US to this mess.

Corrian wrote:

Kowani wrote:BIden's director of National Intelligence (Avril Haines) will get her confirmation hearing on Friday

But...the Senate doesn't reconvene until the 19th?

Corrian wrote:Republican who voted to impeach Trump wanted 7 minutes to make an argument of why he was, only got 1

While I get the rules, I kinda agree here that it was a missed opportunity for a Republican to make their case for impeachment. Would it have made any more go over? I don't know, but it'd be worth a shot.

Freiheit Reich wrote:Peru and Mexico and Brazil also had high death rates and they are mostly non-white.

Personally, I would rather have a higher death rate and not bend towards dictator like tactics. New Zealand and Australia behaved eerily like China with their trampling of human rights to stop the virus. Short-term, it looks great that they solved the issue. Long-term, it may cause their country to become an authoritarian nation because leaders know that they can trample rights in the name of 'safety.'

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" We must not forget these words.

Freiheit Reich wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
Basically Anglo-Saxon men have come out looking very irresponsible and irrational this past year. As far as I can tell the main topic in the UK around Covid is 'yes but can we go to the pub', getting down to the ridiculous debate as to whether a scotch egg is a substantial meal.

Between white people's attitude to the virus and the white supremacists who stormed the Capitol and overwhelmingly support Trump, let's just say Brand White Man took a beating.

Near all of Asia including Australia and NZ are pretty ok with things, and we probably have harsher restrictions as well.

Having said that, having a leader so stupid as to downplay, mix message and even fucking catch it themselves - hello Trump and Boris Johnson - is appalling lack of leadership.

It may well have been bad but it didn't have to be so very bad.

Peru and Mexico and Brazil also had high death rates and they are mostly non-white.

Personally, I would rather have a higher death rate and not bend towards dictator like tactics. New Zealand and Australia behaved eerily like China with their trampling of human rights to stop the virus. Short-term, it looks great that they solved the issue. Long-term, it may cause their country to become an authoritarian nation because leaders know that they can trample rights in the name of 'safety.'

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" We must not forget these words.

Postauthoritarian America wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Peru and Mexico and Brazil also had high death rates and they are mostly non-white.

Personally, I would rather have a higher death rate and not bend towards dictator like tactics. New Zealand and Australia behaved eerily like China with their trampling of human rights to stop the virus. Short-term, it looks great that they solved the issue. Long-term, it may cause their country to become an authoritarian nation because leaders know that they can trample rights in the name of 'safety.'

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" We must not forget these words.

We're talking about basic, basic public health measures to stem the spread of a virulent respiratory disease for which there was no vaccine until recently and still no cure. Refusing to wear masks in public, fighting against social distancing and closures of public places and making political points off actual political leaders who actually try to save peoples' lives is not "give me Liberty or give me death," it's "I'll do as I damn well please and to hell with my neighbors."

Freiheit Reich wrote:Peru and Mexico and Brazil also had high death rates and they are mostly non-white.

Personally, I would rather have a higher death rate and not bend towards dictator like tactics. New Zealand and Australia behaved eerily like China with their trampling of human rights to stop the virus. Short-term, it looks great that they solved the issue. Long-term, it may cause their country to become an authoritarian nation because leaders know that they can trample rights in the name of 'safety.'

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" We must not forget these words.

Bombadil wrote:

Postauthoritarian America wrote:
We're talking about basic, basic public health measures to stem the spread of a virulent respiratory disease for which there was no vaccine until recently and still no cure. Refusing to wear masks in public, fighting against social distancing and closures of public places and making political points off actual political leaders who actually try to save peoples' lives is not "give me Liberty or give me death," it's "I'll do as I damn well please and to hell with my neighbors."

It's the mind state of the 14 year old kid slamming the door shouting 'you can't tell me what to do!'.

It's juvenile.

Picairn wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:Peru and Mexico and Brazil also had high death rates and they are mostly non-white.

Personally, I would rather have a higher death rate and not bend towards dictator like tactics. New Zealand and Australia behaved eerily like China with their trampling of human rights to stop the virus. Short-term, it looks great that they solved the issue. Long-term, it may cause their country to become an authoritarian nation because leaders know that they can trample rights in the name of 'safety.'

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" We must not forget these words.

Ah yes, the good old "freedom" spiel. Freedom to what? To infect other people at will because of your recklessness and ignorance? Might as well have a "Right to murder" if you so desire "freedom".

Cannot think of a name wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
It's the mind state of the 14 year old kid slamming the door shouting 'you can't tell me what to do!'.

It's juvenile.

It is remarkable how many times I've wanted to shout "Are you fucking 12?" in 2020.

Picairn wrote:

Freiheit Reich wrote:Plenty of socialist nations in Europe (which are mostly led by liberal leaders) have high death tolls as well. If they are liberal and have harsh restrictions on civil liberties, why do they also have high death tolls?

Except their death tolls are far lower than the US. The UK, which has the highest death toll out of all countries in Europe, has 83k deaths as of January 13, 2021. That's not even half the US' deaths, which sit at nearly 390k. https://www.statista.com/statistics/109 ... y-country/

I hope you are not blaming Trump for the virus deaths. Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the UK have similar death rates to the USA.

We blame Trump for his inept preparations for the virus and his neglect that leads to over 300k American deaths. This mantra of "Don't blame Trump for the virus" is so boring and tiresome, it has been debunked repeatedly but some people still won't get it.

Oh and in absolute numbers, the US still ranks first in Covid deaths.