American Politics Impeachment: 2 fast? No, we're 2 furious

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Blimey. Nearly hit the 500 page limit already.
Quite some activity.

A violent mob of fascists poorly attempting to overthrow the US government will do that.

*cryptofascists

If they had been real Fascists they probably could've pulled it off. But no, they're Fash-fetishists and LARPers who think they'd be SS material but in reality would've been on the first train to Auschwitz.

[Esalia]

You are using the exact same talking points against immigration now that were used against Irish immigrants then.

A sad pattern among some people, recycling old talking points once they're on the popular side. I've seen it recently with gay people recycling old homophobic talking points to use them against trans people.

It's stale and recycled bigotry should be as hard fought against as the original bigotry.

It's sad how many people use bigoted talking points that would be used against them if they were born further in the past.

Hell, with the gay example, some of them faced that bigotry in their lifetime (and are still facing it) and feel justified in attacking others with what they were attacked with.

[Nakena]

Blimey. Nearly hit the 500 page limit already.
Quite some activity.

A violent mob of fascists poorly attempting to overthrow the US government will do that.

Now we have a mob of posters poorly attempting to overflow the forum software by going beyond 500 pages.

[Spirit of Hope]

Freiheit actually does have a point in regards to Mormon reparations. They were pretty consistently attacked and driven out of civilized society towards the frontier, Smith himself was killed by a mob. If we're doing reparations it makes sense to include them. Natives too, obvs.

Native Americans yes, Mormons I'd have to look more at the data to see. In my mind the point is less, we did evil things, here is money to make us feel less bad. And more we did bad things that are still having major effects, here is money to help out.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

That said, reparations are no. Full stop. There's no one alive to repay; ergo, no reparations. Paying people because their ancestors were enslaved makes about as much sense as taxing people because their ancestors were slave owners. Reparations should've come during Reconstruction.

Unlikely the racists who enslaved people were going to pay them for stolen labor once they freed them, especially since those same racists were quick to make the laws further oppressing their past slaves.

I can have a policy disagreement about moves to help African Americans, and what place reparations, affirmative action, or other policies should take. But if your argument, and Trollzyn I'm not saying it's yours, is that affirmative action or reparations are horrible description against whites we have a bigger problem.

Yeah, that's just bullshit. Reparations aren't racist.

[Heloin]

Fuck, it always makes me feel weird when I agree with a Fascist.

Even broke ass clocks are right twice a day.

I'd argue RFSI's point is still broken seeing that he's calling for forceful, violent assimilation into one singular culture were all others are treated as inferior.

[Valrifell]

Freiheit actually does have a point in regards to Mormon reparations. They were pretty consistently attacked and driven out of civilized society towards the frontier, Smith himself was killed by a mob. If we're doing reparations it makes sense to include them. Natives too, obvs.

Natives deserve way more and it's a shame that native issues aren't picked up by mainstream politics.

But also the mormons are very well-to-do these days ever since we gave them Utah, the situations aren't comparable.

[-Ra-]

Ivanka Trump in 2024? I've been hearing chatter.

[Shrillland]

Third thread, get your third thread!

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=497186

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Even broke ass clocks are right twice a day.

I'd argue RFSI's point is still broken seeing that he's calling for forceful, violent assimilation into one singular culture were all others are treated as inferior.

Yeah, gotta agree, that part was hella cringe.

[Kowani]

A violent mob of fascists poorly attempting to overthrow the US government will do that.

Now we have a mob of posters poorly attempting to overflow the forum software by going beyond 500 pages.

5440 or fight!

[Atheris]

Fuck, it always makes me feel weird when I agree with a Fascist.

Even broke ass clocks are right twice a day.

Yeah, RFSI has some surprisingly based points every now and then. Not very often, mind you, and even then some of the aforementioned based points have a twist, but every now and then I find myself surprised that I'm agreeing with him.

[Omniabstracta]

Ivanka Trump in 2024? I've been hearing chatter.

Please no.

[Senkaku]

There's no one alive to repay; ergo, no reparations.

You don't think slavery had any legacies, either within families or throughout our society, that continued to cause harm after it was abolished and might have affected people alive today?

[Sanghyeok]

We've reached 500 so quickly.

[Herador]

Even broke ass clocks are right twice a day.

I'd argue RFSI's point is still broken seeing that he's calling for forceful, violent assimilation into one singular culture were all others are treated as inferior.

Well sure, the fascist a fascist, I was just responding to Trollzyn.

[The Reformed American Republic]

That said, reparations are no. Full stop.

Exactly.

[Cannot think of a name]

I think that maybe you should focus on the subject and not try and drag unrelated bullshit in. Every time someone bending over backwards to make apologies for the unique position that black people have faced in the United States by invoking cases of Irish discrimination it's fucking embarrassing and you should be embarrassed doing it. Knock it off. It's not comparable and puts people with Irish heritage in the US in a weird position when they have fuckall do to with the discussion. Knock it off.

Yeah, part Scot-Irish myself. Don't like racists using my heritage to justify their thinly-veiled racism.

That said, reparations are no. Full stop. There's no one alive to repay; ergo, no reparations. Paying people because their ancestors were enslaved makes about as much sense as taxing people because their ancestors were slave owners. Reparations should've come during Reconstruction.

Not to get too far in the weeds on this discussion and with the caveat that I'm agnostic on the subject of reparations, the idea isn't so much that you're paying off the actual aggrieved party but doing a few things.

First of all, non-black people have had the opportunity to build and pass down wealth since the founding of the country while black families have not only been barred from owning property but, since they spent a bunch of time as property, were never able to even profit from their own labor. White society, on the other hand, has profited from their labor even if they didn't own slaves. If you bought cotton products, the price they were bought and the labor needed to harvest it to take the most common example is a benefit from slave labor. The taxes paid on the profits of slave labor was a benefit from slave labor.

And yes, clearly, things didn't work out for all the white people who had the opportunities that they had that black people didn't, but they still had those opportunities. In the 'we don't own anything' rant a woman had when she was once again being asked to answer for the destruction at the fringes of a movement instead of the situation that was being protested, she imagined a game of Monopoly where one player is selectively excluded from aspects of the game over and over again and only when the game has been played for 400 years and all the other players have accumulated the board, the player that has been excluded is told to play and that it's fair now.

The other thing it does is create a non-weak symbolic reckoning with what is, essentially, the country's original sin. It was only very recently that there has been a pushback on the idea that the Civil War was about anything other than slavery. While we've played some mealy mouthed lip service to regrets over slavery, only now are we going "You know what, maybe monuments to the people who fought to preserve slavery was a bad idea..." We need some sort of reckoning and even if it's a token, reparations would be a way to do that.

It's that last part that makes me agnostic on reparations. No amount is going to fix that 400 years of holding one group back at the starting block, it's symbolic. If that symbolism rustles people's jimmies, pick something else. But until we come to terms with it, it will be the albatross around our neck.

[The Reformed American Republic]

We've reached 500 so quickly.

American politics are a mess, so no surprise there.

[Gravlen]

We've reached 500 so quickly.

An attempted coup will do that.

[Sanghyeok]

Ivanka Trump in 2024? I've been hearing chatter.

Please no.

I would worry for our planet's future were that to happen.

[The Huskar Social Union]

We've reached 500 so quickly.

An attempted coup will do that.

Storm the thread! Yeoooooooooooooooo!

[Cannot think of a name]

We've reached 500 so quickly.

An attempted self coup by the president will do that.

Ivanka Trump in 2024? I've been hearing chatter.

From what I understand is the Trump clan is looking at getting into Florida politics, challenging for House and Senate seats etc.

Don Jr could probably evoke the rabble rouser element, and Ivanka could be the soft sell Trump, like "Did you like Trump but not like having to make weird excuses for his behavior all the time? Try Trump Lite, Try Ivanka."

But I don't think you can do one without the other. And I don't know that short term history is going to be kind to their legacy.

But who knows. It only took the Republicans two years to turn shit around after riding a massive recession, so...you never know.

[Cannot think of a name]

We've reached 500 so quickly.

An attempted coup will do that.

Ninjas everywhere...

[Sanghyeok]

"That her reign our discussion may last for a myriad ages,
Five hundred ropes pages are spread out."
-Ishikawa

(Am I the only one who hasn't seen our new thread?)