American Politics Impeachment: 2 fast? No, we're 2 furious

[Kannap]

Because many Republicans in congress are hacks and cowards.

I did try to employ empathy in my reasoning. Say I'm Thom Tillis in NC, and I have to defend a 2% margin two years from now. I'm only going to join the other anti-Trump Republicans if they've already got 17. I simply can't afford to be on the losing side if that's for impeachment.

Sure, there's a partisan element. What's wrong with that? I can do better for my (R) party by holding the NC Senate seat, than handing it to a Democrat for the sake of signalling my rejection of FORMER President Trump.

Maybe I was a bit dismissive. It's a nothingburger with spicy sauce, and a shit sandwich on the side.

Thom Tillis isn't up for election in two years.

[Kannap]

I did try to employ empathy in my reasoning. Say I'm Thom Tillis in NC, and I have to defend a 2% margin two years from now. I'm only going to join the other anti-Trump Republicans if they've already got 17. I simply can't afford to be on the losing side if that's for impeachment.

Sure, there's a partisan element. What's wrong with that? I can do better for my (R) party by holding the NC Senate seat, than handing it to a Democrat for the sake of signalling my rejection of FORMER President Trump.

Maybe I was a bit dismissive. It's a nothingburger with spicy sauce, and a shit sandwich on the side.

I mean, he could just decide to do the right thing....

Thom Tillis? Ha hahaha hahahahahaha

[Senkaku]

Just ignore Cash and Carry, Lend Lease and FDR sending the American Navy out to directly provoke the Japanese and Germans...

Because a neutral country can't sell to anyone, apparently.

Sending the Navy out to where? Pearl Harbor? Shipping lanes to Britain? Which were fully within US' right?

Well, we did get a little spicy in the Atlantic, but the Japanese were just mad we wouldn't keep selling them oil to fuel their bombers for air raids against Chinese civilians lol

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I did try to employ empathy in my reasoning. Say I'm Thom Tillis in NC, and I have to defend a 2% margin two years from now. I'm only going to join the other anti-Trump Republicans if they've already got 17. I simply can't afford to be on the losing side if that's for impeachment.

Sure, there's a partisan element. What's wrong with that? I can do better for my (R) party by holding the NC Senate seat, than handing it to a Democrat for the sake of signalling my rejection of FORMER President Trump.

Maybe I was a bit dismissive. It's a nothingburger with spicy sauce, and a shit sandwich on the side.

One fundamental miscalculation I think you make is in the effect that pissing off Trump Republicans will have in red states versus swing states. The real threat doesn’t come from the statewide elections, because regardless of the rhetoric, most Trump Republicans would rather have a Republican than a Democrat. The threat is in the primary, and it’s in the ruby read states that the Trumpers are liable to strike and primary a Senate candidate who didn’t conform, as opposed to a swing state where the moderates have a far greater say in the primary process.

Not a fundamental miscalculation, so much as skipped step. Certainly the threat to individual incumbent Republicans begins in the primaries. However, they will count the best and worst outcomes for the party, the general election result, as more important and as determinative.

"I'm the best Republican available in Oklahoma, and I know that because I've been elected by Oklahoma. Therefore a primary challenge succeeding means we lose Oklahoma. My interests are by definition the interests of the party."

The reasoning is suspect, and a bit crazy, but I think that is how anyone with a big enough ego to be a Senator really thinks.

We also have to account for states with open or semi-open primaries. If an incumbent Republican stands up against Trump, then Trumpist carpet-baggers descent on their state, it's quite plausible that Democrat voters would support them in the Republican primary. Even if that means giving up their vote in the Democratic primary.

No it's not crazy. I don't have to show a precedent (though weak precedents do exist). Dems know that after the General election, their Senator is going to be a Republican. It would matter more to them that it be the incumbent who stood up to Trump, than a Trumpist stooge. It would matter more than which Democrat is going to run against the Republican and lose.

A different dynamic applies in a more purple state. Because the Trumpist primary pirate might actually lose the seat, Dems might support them in the primary. Or more likely avoid that moral dilemma and stay in their own primary.

(I might add, as evidenced by Georgia, pandering to Trump voters isn’t very likely to win you a seat when he’s not on the ballot.)

Georgia was a surprise. You probably shouldn't use an outlier to try to illustrate a pattern.

[Flarbinia]

I would take you on that bet, I suspect he will be impeached properly.. specifically in that he did nothing to stop it for 3 hours, 3 hours as all those Senators hid, as that settles in and the footage is clear in their mind, I suspect there will be enough votes.

Whether he's thrown in jail as he should be is another thing.

Wrong. Most Republicans still support Trump and any Republican Senator that doesn't want to get voted out come the Primaries will not vote in favor of conviction. Also, Trump told the people who stormed the Capitol to go home and leave peacefully and sent in the National Guard to clear them out. What's that? You think that Mike Pence called in the Nation Guard? Newsflash! The President is the Commander-In-Chief, not the Vice President.

You say with no evidence. It's funny how the trump movement is all but based in an alternate universe and when asked for evidence they just resort to the usual "LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF"

There was no rigging. Trump was just a washed up grade F president who probably will end up in an orange jump suit in two weeks time thank god.

If there was no rigging, then why was the Texan woman in the Project Veritas video arrested and charged, Mister "I use the Epoch Times as toilet paper because it doesn't say what I want to hear"? If the Democrats didn't stuff the ballot box, then why did Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, all states where Trump had the lead, went to Biden at 3 AM? If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud, then why did the forensic audits discover that Trump votes were changed or removed? The answer is simple: the Election was stolen. Now that Trump has exhausted all legal avenues and conceded, the Democrats, who spent most of 2020 championing BLM and ANTIFA as they destroyed over a billion dollars in public and private property, are Impeaching Trump for "inciting violence". Spoiler Alert! Calling for a peaceful protest is not inciting Violence. You would know that if you watched the actual speech. As for Impeachment, it's a Nothing Burger. No Republican looking to get reelected would want the albatross of voting in favor of convicting Trump hanging around their neck come the Primaries.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I did try to employ empathy in my reasoning. Say I'm Thom Tillis in NC, and I have to defend a 2% margin two years from now. I'm only going to join the other anti-Trump Republicans if they've already got 17. I simply can't afford to be on the losing side if that's for impeachment.

Sure, there's a partisan element. What's wrong with that? I can do better for my (R) party by holding the NC Senate seat, than handing it to a Democrat for the sake of signalling my rejection of FORMER President Trump.

Maybe I was a bit dismissive. It's a nothingburger with spicy sauce, and a shit sandwich on the side.

Thom Tillis isn't up for election in two years.

Yeah I goofed, that was last year. Should have followed the link instead of just reading it from the Google search.

It's just an example. I chose it because of the narrow margin.

[Galloism]

I mean, he could just decide to do the right thing....

Thom Tillis? Ha hahaha hahahahahaha

It’s a radical idea, but that might be why it works.

[Picairn]

If there was no rigging, then why was the Texan woman in the Project Veritas video arrested and charged, Mister "I use the Epoch Times as toilet paper because it doesn't say what I want to hear"? If the Democrats didn't stuff the ballot box, then why did Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, all states where Trump had the lead, went to Biden at 3 AM? If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud, then why did the forensic audits discover that Trump votes were changed or removed? The answer is simple: the Election was stolen. Now that Trump has exhausted all legal avenues and conceded, the Democrats, who spent most of 2020 championing BLM and ANTIFA as they destroyed over a billion dollars in public and private property, are Impeaching Trump for "inciting violence". Spoiler Alert! Calling for a peaceful protest is not inciting Violence. You would know that if you watched the actual speech. As for Impeachment, it's a Nothing Burger. No Republican looking to get reelected would want the albatross of voting in favor of convicting Trump hanging around their neck come the Primaries.

> The election was stolen

Mate, election officials, intelligence agencies and judges on both sides have refuted your nonsense a long time ago. Imagine repeating the same lies that have been continually debunked.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I would take you on that bet, I suspect he will be impeached properly.. specifically in that he did nothing to stop it for 3 hours, 3 hours as all those Senators hid, as that settles in and the footage is clear in their mind, I suspect there will be enough votes.

Whether he's thrown in jail as he should be is another thing.

Wrong. Most Republicans still support Trump and any Republican Senator that doesn't want to get voted out come the Primaries will not vote in favor of conviction. Also, Trump told the people who stormed the Capitol to go home and leave peacefully and sent in the National Guard to clear them out. What's that? You think that Mike Pence called in the Nation Guard? Newsflash! The President is the Commander-In-Chief, not the Vice President.

His support amongst Republicans has plummeted to 60% and a majority of Americans support removing him from office entirely. Any Republicans who want the party to survive will convict and immediately try to move on from him.

[Senkaku]

If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud

I am once again asking that you stop using such tired and absurd lies

[Kannap]

Thom Tillis isn't up for election in two years.

Yeah I goofed, that was last year. Should have followed the link instead of just reading it from the Google search.

It's just an example. I chose it because of the narrow margin.

The narrow margin is good news for the Democrats, I assume. He won that narrowly against a guy who cheated on his wife during the campaign season. Imagine if the Dems ran an actual good candidate against Tillis in 2026. Or against whoever the Republicans nominate in 2022 for Burr's open seat.

[Omniabstracta]

Wrong. Most Republicans still support Trump and any Republican Senator that doesn't want to get voted out come the Primaries will not vote in favor of conviction.

I mean, there are dozens of Republican Senators not up for re-election until 2024 or 2026, who are already labeled as traitors for overturning electoral college objections, who would love an opportunity to get Trump’s influence out of the party so he can’t hurt them that political eternity later. Among them, as you well know the de facto leader of the Republican Party once Trump leaves office.

Also, Trump told the people who stormed the Capitol to go home and leave peacefully and sent in the National Guard to clear them out. What's that? You think that Mike Pence called in the Nation Guard? Newsflash! The President is the Commander-In-Chief, not the Vice President.

As is a matter of public, governmental record, the Secretary of Defense, who can legally exercise unilateral control over the D.C. National Guard, was the one that activated the DCNG. The other National Guard units that were there were sent by the governors of Virginia and Maryland. Trump retroactively saying he did something doesn’t make it true.

If there was no rigging, then why was the Texan woman in the Project Veritas video arrested and charged, Mister "I use the Epoch Times as toilet paper because it doesn't say what I want to hear"? If the Democrats didn't stuff the ballot box, then why did Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, all states where Trump had the lead, went to Biden at 3 AM? If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud, then why did the forensic audits discover that Trump votes were changed or removed? The answer is simple: the Election was stolen. Now that Trump has exhausted all legal avenues and conceded, the Democrats, who spent most of 2020 championing BLM and ANTIFA as they destroyed over a billion dollars in public and private property, are Impeaching Trump for "inciting violence". Spoiler Alert! Calling for a peaceful protest is not inciting Violence. You would know that if you watched the actual speech. As for Impeachment, it's a Nothing Burger. No Republican looking to get reelected would want the albatross of voting in favor of convicting Trump hanging around their neck come the Primaries.

Quick question. If any of what you just said was coherent or evidence, why did none of those legal avenues work for Trump? Why was such evidence never actually brought up or successfully used in a court of law? Why were 64 out of 65 lawsuits lost, many not on standing, but on the merits of the case? I’m sure you can explain why the entire U.S. legal system, Trump appointed judges and all, are wrong, and you are right about a stolen election.

[No State Here]

If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud

I doubt Hugo Chavez was smart enough to engineer machines that will rig an American election years after his death when he couldn’t even manage basic economic problems and turned his country into a hellhole reminiscent of Sahelian Africa or Middle Eastern Warzones

[Eahland]

History nor the constitution does not agree with your assessment. Sorry bud, Trump is shit out of luck this time.

You can't Impeach a private citizen, which is what President Trump will be come the 20th. Also, only ten Republicans have voted in favor of Impeachment. Nancy Pelosi needs seventeen to avoid an acquittal.

Okay, a little Civics 101 here, because you clearly need it:

The U.S. Congress has two chambers: The House of Representatives, which has 435 voting members; each state getting a number of representatives based on population, ranging from 1 for small states like Vermont or Wyoming to 53 for California; and the Senate, which has 100 voting members, two from each state.

The Democrats currently have a 222-212 majority in the House (one seat in Louisiana is vacant, because the Congressman elected in November died from COVID-19 before the new Congress was seated, and the special election to replace him isn't until March). Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) is Speaker of the House.

At the moment, the Republicans have a 51-48 majority in the Senate, because the winners of the runoffs for the two races in Georgia haven't been seated yet. Because it was a regular election, Perdue's (R-GA) term ended on January 4th, when the new Congress was seated, so that seat is vacant until Ossoff (D-GA) is seated. The other seat's term doesn't end until 2023, though, so Loeffler (R-GA), who was appointed to fill it, keeps her job until Warnock (D-GA) is actually seated to replace her. So at the moment there are only 99 Senators, with Ossoff's seat technically empty, and Loeffler still occupying Warnock's. After the two new Georgia Senators are seated, probably on the 19th, though, the Senate will be split 50-50. That means the Vice President gets to cast the tie-breaking vote. Until noon on the 20th, that's Mike Pence (R-IN), so Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is Senate majority leader. After noon on the 20th, however, new VP Kamala Harris (D-CA) gets the tie-breaking vote, so the majority flips to the Democrats, and Chuck Schumer (D-NY), currently the Senate minority leader, will become the majority leader.

Now, both chambers of Congress are involved in the impeachment process. The actual impeachment is done by the House, and requires only a simple majority vote. On Wednesday the House voted 232-197 to impeach Trump for inciting insurrection, with all 222 Democrats and 10 Republicans voting to impeach. That means that, as of last Wednesday, Trump has been impeached for the second time. It's a done deal. Pelosi is not looking for any more votes. She didn't even need the 10 Republicans that she got, because she only needed a simple majority, and the Democrats hold a majority in the House.

Impeachment is only the indictment, the formal bringing of charges against Trump, though. From here it goes to the Senate to try him and vote whether or not to convict him. (Trump's previous impeachment also passed the House, but the Senate failed to convict on a party-line vote.) The Senate is certainly not going to get around to addressing it until after the inauguration, so it'll be a split 50-50 Senate with Chuck Schumer running the show as majority leader. This also means that Trump will already be out of office when the trial starts, but it's not meaningless, because in addition to removing him from office, an impeachment conviction can also bar him from ever again holding any office in the United States. (And there is historical precedent for impeaching an official who had already left office.) Conviction requires a 2/3rds majority in the Senate, so assuming that all 50 Democrats (well, 48 Democrats and 2 independents who caucus with them, technically) vote to convict, Schumer will still need 17 Republicans. There are three or four Republican Senators already making noises like they're going to vote to convict, and the other dozen or so might be there... I think it probably depends on which way McConnell flips.

An interesting fact, though: Conviction requires only 2/3rds of the Senators present. If McConnell wants to make sure that Trump can't come back to annoy him, but doesn't want his caucus to have to deal with the fallout of having voted to convict a traitor beloved by the base that they rely on for re-election, he could just convince half of the Republican caucus to boycott the vote, giving the Democrats their 2/3rds majority without any Republicans having to actually take a principled stand against treason, insurrection, and domestic terrorism.

(I just discovered that Wikipedia now has a disambiguation page for "Impeachment of Donald Trump".)

[Myrensis]

If there was no rigging, then why was the Texan woman in the Project Veritas video arrested and charged, Mister "I use the Epoch Times as toilet paper because it doesn't say what I want to hear"? If the Democrats didn't stuff the ballot box, then why did Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, all states where Trump had the lead, went to Biden at 3 AM? If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud, then why did the forensic audits discover that Trump votes were changed or removed? The answer is simple: the Election was stolen. Now that Trump has exhausted all legal avenues and conceded, the Democrats, who spent most of 2020 championing BLM and ANTIFA as they destroyed over a billion dollars in public and private property, are Impeaching Trump for "inciting violence". Spoiler Alert! Calling for a peaceful protest is not inciting Violence. You would know that if you watched the actual speech. As for Impeachment, it's a Nothing Burger. No Republican looking to get reelected would want the albatross of voting in favor of convicting Trump hanging around their neck come the Primaries.

Quick question. If any of what you just said was coherent or evidence, why did none of those legal avenues work for Trump? Why was such evidence never actually brought up or successfully used in a court of law? Why were 64 out of 65 lawsuits lost, many not on standing, but on the merits of the case? I’m sure you can explain why the entire U.S. legal system, Trump appointed judges and all, are wrong, and you are right about a stolen election.

It was a very stable genius plan by Trump: He deliberately appointed a bunch of radical deep state communists to the Federal bench, so that when they ruled against him and caused him to lose the election, they would totally be exposed!

Classic 34th Dimensional Chess move by a true master.

[Bombadil]

I would take you on that bet, I suspect he will be impeached properly.. specifically in that he did nothing to stop it for 3 hours, 3 hours as all those Senators hid, as that settles in and the footage is clear in their mind, I suspect there will be enough votes.

Whether he's thrown in jail as he should be is another thing.

Wrong. Most Republicans still support Trump and any Republican Senator that doesn't want to get voted out come the Primaries will not vote in favor of conviction. Also, Trump told the people who stormed the Capitol to go home and leave peacefully and sent in the National Guard to clear them out. What's that? You think that Mike Pence called in the Nation Guard? Newsflash! The President is the Commander-In-Chief, not the Vice President.

Well, reality will catch up with you at some point.

[San Lumen]

I would take you on that bet, I suspect he will be impeached properly.. specifically in that he did nothing to stop it for 3 hours, 3 hours as all those Senators hid, as that settles in and the footage is clear in their mind, I suspect there will be enough votes.

Whether he's thrown in jail as he should be is another thing.

Wrong. Most Republicans still support Trump and any Republican Senator that doesn't want to get voted out come the Primaries will not vote in favor of conviction. Also, Trump told the people who stormed the Capitol to go home and leave peacefully and sent in the National Guard to clear them out. What's that? You think that Mike Pence called in the Nation Guard? Newsflash! The President is the Commander-In-Chief, not the Vice President.

You say with no evidence. It's funny how the trump movement is all but based in an alternate universe and when asked for evidence they just resort to the usual "LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF"

There was no rigging. Trump was just a washed up grade F president who probably will end up in an orange jump suit in two weeks time thank god.

If there was no rigging, then why was the Texan woman in the Project Veritas video arrested and charged, Mister "I use the Epoch Times as toilet paper because it doesn't say what I want to hear"? If the Democrats didn't stuff the ballot box, then why did Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, all states where Trump had the lead, went to Biden at 3 AM? If Dominion Voting Machines weren't used to commit Election Fraud, then why did the forensic audits discover that Trump votes were changed or removed? The answer is simple: the Election was stolen. Now that Trump has exhausted all legal avenues and conceded, the Democrats, who spent most of 2020 championing BLM and ANTIFA as they destroyed over a billion dollars in public and private property, are Impeaching Trump for "inciting violence". Spoiler Alert! Calling for a peaceful protest is not inciting Violence. You would know that if you watched the actual speech. As for Impeachment, it's a Nothing Burger. No Republican looking to get reelected would want the albatross of voting in favor of convicting Trump hanging around their neck come the Primaries.

If there was such massive fraud how did it miss every other election? Why wasn't any of this evidence you allege presented in court? Where the judges all in on the conspiracy?

[Comerciante]

Not only the judges were in on it, the police, the international observers, the neighbor's cat, the neighbor's other cat! my auntie Elsie! and even Jesus!

Edit: I almost forgot Venezuela!

[San Lumen]

Not only the judges were in on it, the police, the international observers, the neighbor's cat, the neighbor's other cat! my auntie Elsie! and even Jesus!

Edit: I almost forgot Venezuela!

So where poll workers like me but the Men In Black and Illuminati told me I could only rig the presidential election. It would expose their scheme if all the elections were rigged.

[Freiheit Reich]

Ahh ok, the US shouldn't stop terrorists until the terrorists attack the US, or anyone else for that matter. Guess the US shouldn't have declared war on Nazi Germany.

No, honestly. There was no reason for American involvement in WWII, or World War I for that matter.

World War I-no. WWII-Yes. We were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. We had reason to attack Japan. I don't think we had justification to attack Germany though.

[Kannap]

No, honestly. There was no reason for American involvement in WWII, or World War I for that matter.

World War I-no. WWII-Yes. We were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. We had reason to attack Japan. I don't think we had justification to attack Germany though.

Germany declared war on us, that was the only justification we needed really. There's a discussion to be had on whether or not America would have gotten involved in Europe if Germany hadn't declared war on us, but that's for another thread.

[Cordel One]

No, honestly. There was no reason for American involvement in WWII, or World War I for that matter.

World War I-no. WWII-Yes. We were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. We had reason to attack Japan. I don't think we had justification to attack Germany though.

In WWI? Not so much. In WWII? The Nazis were the foot soldiers of a Jew-hatin', mass murderin' maniac and they needed to be dee-stroyed.

[Senkaku]

No, honestly. There was no reason for American involvement in WWII, or World War I for that matter.

World War I-no. WWII-Yes. We were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. We had reason to attack Japan. I don't think we had justification to attack Germany though.

mfw their ally launches a surprise attack on us and they also declare war on us and they're committing genocide but we still don't have a justification to attack

[Cordel One]

Giuliani's working on Trump's impeachment defense

[Kannap]

World War I-no. WWII-Yes. We were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. We had reason to attack Japan. I don't think we had justification to attack Germany though.

mfw their ally launches a surprise attack on us and they also declare war on us and they're committing genocide but we still don't have a justification to attack

Really puts the Reich in Freiheit Reich.