American Politics Impeachment: 2 fast? No, we're 2 furious

[Borderlands of Rojava]

There's so very little news coming out of the WH, what is he doing, what are people around him doing.. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

As much as I hate seeing the shit Trump posts, the silence is admittedly unnerving...

It is.

[Galloism]

Effectively he probably is. He just has the fanciest prison in the country.

There's so very little news coming out of the WH, what is he doing, what are people around him doing.. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

Ok, you can call me a conspiracy nut job, and I wouldn’t even report you for flaming. You could be 100% right.

But...

Pence commanded the troops that ended the capitol siege. Trump has only sent out prerecorded videos, nothing live. His Twitter was taken away (years late, but I digress). He hasn’t gotten any interviews, and no communications of any kind of a live nature of any kind.

My hypothesis is Pence is now in charge, Trump’s people aren’t answering to him, and he’s effectively a prisoner in the White House.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

in a way applicable to the american situation? i don't quite know how myself yet, but as a beginning:

at the moment, even as it pains me to say it as someone who vastly prefers a democracy, the united states may have to be effectively a one-party state for a generation or so

trump has so poisoned the mainstream of american conservatism that trusting them with power is a fool's errand, certain to give them the leg up in initiating an authoritarian regime under a trumplike figure, needed though a sane right-of-center party is in moderating leftist demands

We don't need a one party state. We need more parties.

Maybe. That could lead to openly ethnat major parties though. This is what happens in Europe.

[Nevertopia]

As much as I hate seeing the shit Trump posts, the silence is admittedly unnerving...

It is.

I find it cathartic because I know that orange baby-handed manchild is verbally backed up and cant release his verbal diarrhea into the world.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

There's so very little news coming out of the WH, what is he doing, what are people around him doing.. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

Ok, you can call me a conspiracy nut job, and I wouldn’t even report you for flaming. You could be 100% right.

But...

Pence commanded the troops that ended the capitol siege. Trump has only sent out prerecorded videos, nothing live. His Twitter was taken away (years late, but I digress). He hasn’t gotten any interviews, and no communications of any kind of a live nature of any kind.

My hypothesis is Pence is now in charge, Trump’s people aren’t answering to him, and he’s effectively a prisoner in the White House.

"Look at me, look at me. I'm the captain now." .

-Michael Pence, vice president in theory but president in practice

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Yeah it really just depends on how bad the situation is. People posting on Gab is fine. People start to ethnically cleanse a city is not. The latter does require military response.

But not drones. Drones are messy and it's really a matter of luck whether they only kill their intended targets. Innocent people being drone striked because they happened to be next to the drone's target is how you radicalize people.

I agree. When it is still possible to use the police and NG there is no need to call in troops.

[Bahia Roja]

My hypothesis is Pence is now in charge, Trump’s people aren’t answering to him, and he’s effectively a prisoner in the White House.

At this point, this is a totally valid theory.

[Diahon]

in a way applicable to the american situation? i don't quite know how myself yet, but as a beginning:

at the moment, even as it pains me to say it as someone who vastly prefers a democracy, the united states may have to be effectively a one-party state for a generation or so

trump has so poisoned the mainstream of american conservatism that trusting them with power is a fool's errand, certain to give them the leg up in initiating an authoritarian regime under a trumplike figure, needed though a sane right-of-center party is in moderating leftist demands

We don't need a one party state. We need more parties.

more parties at this critical juncture means having people whose commitment to a continued democracy is at best in doubt join in

no, that's too high a risk, unless the libertarians shape up at long last

[Valrifell]

There's so very little news coming out of the WH, what is he doing, what are people around him doing.. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

Ok, you can call me a conspiracy nut job, and I wouldn’t even report you for flaming. You could be 100% right.

But...

Pence commanded the troops that ended the capitol siege. Trump has only sent out prerecorded videos, nothing live. His Twitter was taken away (years late, but I digress). He hasn’t gotten any interviews, and no communications of any kind of a live nature of any kind.

My hypothesis is Pence is now in charge, Trump’s people aren’t answering to him, and he’s effectively a prisoner in the White House.

Heck, I'd buy that

[Borderlands of Rojava]

We don't need a one party state. We need more parties.

more parties at this critical juncture means having people whose commitment to a continued democracy is at best in doubt join in

no, that's too high a risk, unless the libertarians shape up at long last

Smaller parties have less of a chance of staging a coup though. Trump co opted a large political party with many members.

[Bahia Roja]

Smaller parties have less of a chance of staging a coup though. Trump co opted a large political party with many members.

Unless everyone gets cool about a lot of stuff really quickly, we ain't having a multi-party state anytime soon.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Ideally how would we fix this? How do you stop people from becoming bitter, ignorant and entitled?

in a way applicable to the american situation? i don't quite know how myself yet, but as a beginning:

at the moment, even as it pains me to say it as someone who vastly prefers a democracy, the united states may have to be effectively a one-party state for a generation or so

trump has so poisoned the mainstream of american conservatism that trusting them with power is a fool's errand, certain to give them the leg up in initiating an authoritarian regime under a trumplike figure, needed though a sane right-of-center party is in moderating leftist demands

Your treatment is even worse than the disease.

[Diahon]

more parties at this critical juncture means having people whose commitment to a continued democracy is at best in doubt join in

no, that's too high a risk, unless the libertarians shape up at long last

Smaller parties have less of a chance of staging a coup though. Trump co opted a large political party with many members.

a sufficiently charismatic demagogue can attract the fealty of small parties and stage a coup, especially if the latter are not absolutely committed to the democratic process

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Smaller parties have less of a chance of staging a coup though. Trump co opted a large political party with many members.

Unless everyone gets cool about a lot of stuff really quickly, we ain't having a multi-party state anytime soon.

Well then I guess we need a 2 party state. I do not wanna live in a one party nation.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Smaller parties have less of a chance of staging a coup though. Trump co opted a large political party with many members.

a sufficiently charismatic demagogue can attract the fealty of small parties and stage a coup, especially if the latter are not absolutely committed to the democratic process

Ok and what happens if in your one party state a Trump like figure co opts the party? Who will oppose them?

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Unless everyone gets cool about a lot of stuff really quickly, we ain't having a multi-party state anytime soon.

Well then I guess we need a 2 party state. I do not wanna live in a one party nation.

Yup.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

a sufficiently charismatic demagogue can attract the fealty of small parties and stage a coup, especially if the latter are not absolutely committed to the democratic process

Ok and what happens if in your one party state a Trump like figure co opts the party? Who will oppose them?

Yeah! That can lead to America becoming China.

[Diahon]

in a way applicable to the american situation? i don't quite know how myself yet, but as a beginning:

at the moment, even as it pains me to say it as someone who vastly prefers a democracy, the united states may have to be effectively a one-party state for a generation or so

trump has so poisoned the mainstream of american conservatism that trusting them with power is a fool's errand, certain to give them the leg up in initiating an authoritarian regime under a trumplike figure, needed though a sane right-of-center party is in moderating leftist demands

Your treatment is even worse than the disease.

the democrats at least really are democratic and can be trusted to yield power when the time comes, as obama did when trump was elected

the gop has undergone a transmogrification under trump, and can no longer be trusted with power

neither the libertarians nor the greens are serious political parties at this point, though they can replace the gop eventually

[Nevertopia]

Smaller parties have less of a chance of staging a coup though. Trump co opted a large political party with many members.

Unless everyone gets cool about a lot of stuff really quickly, we ain't having a multi-party state anytime soon.

no doubt, the PM of Canada had an easier time legalizing weed than he did implementing run-off voting.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Your treatment is even worse than the disease.

the democrats at least really are democratic and can be trusted to yield power when the time comes, as obama did when trump was elected

the gop has undergone a transmogrification under trump, and can no longer be trusted with power

Neither is good now.

[Salus Maior]

Yes, as were pretty much all Republicans.

I think essentially sacking the Capitol with an angry mob is a line that a lot of Republicans don't want to cross. I'd say Shapiro is one of those people, even with all his flaws.

People like Qanon and Alex Jones, however, I'd say they would have been on board all the way if the authorities weren't clamping down right now.

Just to clarify why I'm slightly ranting about this; his words were along the lines of "the election was stolen, it definitely was" and "the right needs to become more radical". Now his narrative is "there is no evidence at all of election fraud" and "the right is going to far". Equal frothiness and now this glaring unblinking hypocrisy.

Ahhhh, ok I get what you mean.

I don't really listen to any political commentators.

[UniversalCommons]

There are some assumptions here. There are indications that the police have been compromised. The police were instructed to not fire on the protestors. They were not carrying proper nonlethals, tasers, etc. and the protesters were using chemical irritants. Some of the police were photographed acting with the rioters. In this situation the police were compromised. The national guard did not deploy quickly. The national guard has to be called in if the police are compromised. There needs to be a large scale use of nonlethals-- water cannons, irritants, and riot gear, not police who cannot act. There has to be a ready group who can use nonlethal force on a large scale to prevent rioting and arrest people in a proper fashion.

[Bahia Roja]

the democrats at least really are democratic and can be trusted to yield power when the time comes, as obama did when trump was elected

The problem with giving all the power to the Democrats is that the DNC is run by moderates paid by big corporations. We wouldn't be changing anything, we would just make it easier for black people and LGBTQ+ people to be in positions of power and keep exploiting the middle class.

[Diahon]

a sufficiently charismatic demagogue can attract the fealty of small parties and stage a coup, especially if the latter are not absolutely committed to the democratic process

Ok and what happens if in your one party state a Trump like figure co opts the party? Who will oppose them?

a nonzero chance of it happening, but at the very least the experiences of the past four years should keep the possibility of cooptation alive among party elites

a lot of this prescription runs on trust, yes, and i can why you'd be skeptical

[Bahia Roja]

There are some assumptions here. There are indications that the police have been compromised. The police were instructed to not fire on the protestors. They were not carrying proper nonlethals, tasers, etc. and the protesters were using chemical irritants. Some of the police were photographed acting with the rioters. In this situation the police were compromised. The national guard did not deploy quickly. The national guard has to be called in if the police are compromised. There needs to be a large scale use of nonlethals-- water cannons, irritants, and riot gear, not police who cannot act. There has to be a ready group who can use nonlethal force on a large scale to prevent rioting and arrest people in a proper fashion.

That could be the police, but, you know... There's a certain group that's vehemently against the reform and demilitarization of the police.