American Politics Impeachment: 2 fast? No, we're 2 furious

[Irona]

I could well be wrong, but I don't think he will for three reasons:

1) Health and age, 2) Looming bankruptcy and indictments and 3) according to most 'inside the white house' exposes (which tbf we should take with salt) he doesn't seem to enjoy being President and would rather go back to being a big reality star - which is exactly what will happen when he launches Trump TV.

Imo he'll act as kingmaker for the GOP, and we're more likely to see one of his family run in 2024 than him.

given how the party has turned on him I don't think they will want anything do with him or his family going forward.

They won't have a choice. A majority of republicans support those who stormed the Capital. The party establishment won't want to work with him, sure, but the members do.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Someone call -Ra- lol

A ten-second clip of police officers removing a barricade and ushering protestors to another area (where they may have thought they would be easier to contain) is not evidence of police collusion lol. I could easily just share this video of rioters attacking police to buttress my point. Ten-second video clips do not count as evidence. You are missing key context that may damn or exonerate the cops. We just don't know yet, so it is irresponsible to speculate.

Tfw when you remove barricades and allow rioters closer to the capitol but you totally aren't colluding.

[San Lumen]

given how the party has turned on him I don't think they will want anything do with him or his family going forward.

They won't have a choice. A majority of republicans support those who stormed the Capital. The party establishment won't want to work with him, sure, but the members do.

They have free will. He only got a plurality in the primary. His base is not enough to win an election. If Republicans consolidate in 2024 they can prevent him from being renominated.

[Wallenburg]

Someone call -Ra- lol

A ten-second clip of police officers removing a barricade and ushering protestors to another area (where they may have thought they would be easier to contain) is not evidence of police collusion lol. I could easily just share this video of rioters attacking police to buttress my point. Ten-second video clips do not count as evidence. You are missing key context that may damn or exonerate the cops. We just don't know yet, so it is irresponsible to speculate.

You know what clearly points to collusion? That there weren't hundreds of dead "protestors", like there would be if BLM or antifa even considered something like this.

[New Rogernomics]

Have to hold back on what I really think about the situation and Trump, as I am certainly angry at his conduct and those who engaged in violence. He shouldn't be President, and in 13 days he won't be regardless of whether he is removed by the 25th amendment before then. I'd have to agree with all those arguing he is unfit to be President though.

[Senkaku]

Nah, my anarchist leanings don't mean I oppose the enforcement of the law. You'll notice that the people who chant ACAB are specifically demanding that the law be enforced on cops, not that laws not be enforced.

I couldn’t care less what they demand, many of the actions taken by BLM and antifa groups are also sedition, including occupying an entire neighborhood and preventing law enforcement from getting in, leading to at least one murder that went unaddressed and allegedly two more. The same people screaming ACAB are now all for law and order, which takes me to the natural conclusion that the BLM ACAB crowd doesn’t care if anything happens to the other side, exposing many people’s true colors

Do you really think we're "now all for law and order," in the same sense you use the term? I'm not happy that people were brutalized by the police as they cleared the building. I'm not pleased that people died. My preference is the same as it was before: that police do their jobs, and apply the correct amount of force in doing so, rather than under or over-serving people depending on their own personal preferences and political leanings.

[Sanghyeok]

I couldn’t care less what they demand, many of the actions taken by BLM and antifa groups are also sedition, including occupying an entire neighborhood and preventing law enforcement from getting in, leading to at least one murder that went unaddressed and allegedly two more. The same people screaming ACAB are now all for law and order, which takes me to the natural conclusion that the BLM ACAB crowd doesn’t care if anything happens to the other side, exposing many people’s true colors

Do you really think we're "now all for law and order," in the same sense you use the term? I'm not happy that people were brutalized by the police as they cleared the building. I'm not pleased that people died. My preference is the same as it was before: that police do their jobs, and apply the correct amount of force in doing so, rather than under or over-serving people depending on their own personal preferences and political leanings.

Exactly. This latest incident doesn't make me any more supportive of police, especially when I know those same police who previously claimed there were no other choices suddenly showed more restraint than expected. I also still wish for reforms that would prevent such incidents from happening in the first place.

[Irona]

They won't have a choice. A majority of republicans support those who stormed the Capital. The party establishment won't want to work with him, sure, but the members do.

They have free will. He only got a plurality in the primary. His base is not enough to win an election. If Republicans consolidate in 2024 they can prevent him from being renominated.

He only got a plurality in the 2016 primary, but the Republican base is far more radical now than it was then. Trump still has something like a 90% approval rating among registered republicans, and 68% think the 2020 election was stolen. They live in a different reality.

EDIT: I do want to make it clear that I agree the most likely outcome is that Trump (any trump) won't be on the 2024 ticket. But I do think that family and allies will continue to have an immense hold over the base of the party for years to come. There is a real chance that Republicans will spend the next four years waging a war against their own establishment, which will end either with it splitting or the party being completely co-opted.

[Kowani]

In December, Congress increased Capitol Police funding by $51 million, bringing the department's budget to $515 million

look at all that useful spending

[-Ra-]

A ten-second clip of police officers removing a barricade and ushering protestors to another area (where they may have thought they would be easier to contain) is not evidence of police collusion lol. I could easily just share this video of rioters attacking police to buttress my point. Ten-second video clips do not count as evidence. You are missing key context that may damn or exonerate the cops. We just don't know yet, so it is irresponsible to speculate.

You know what clearly points to collusion? That there weren't hundreds of dead "protestors", like there would be if BLM or antifa even considered something like this.

Your argument is based on a contrapositive you cannot prove. We don't know how they would have reacted if it were BLM or Antifa. And anyway the charge is not whether or not DC police acted well or poorly; it's whether or not they were colluding. These are two different things.

[Bombadil]

Have to hold back on what I really think about the situation and Trump, as I am certainly angry at his conduct and those who engaged in violence. He shouldn't be President, and in 13 days he won't be regardless of whether he is removed by the 25th amendment before then. I'd have to agree with all those arguing he is unfit to be President though.

To effectively be blocked on Twitter, FB and others yet be running the country, like you're too dangerous to be on social media but you have access to nuclear codes.. it's like NSG making a DOS the next Mod.

[Senkaku]

A ten-second clip of police officers removing a barricade and ushering protestors to another area (where they may have thought they would be easier to contain) is not evidence of police collusion lol. I could easily just share this video of rioters attacking police to buttress my point. Ten-second video clips do not count as evidence. You are missing key context that may damn or exonerate the cops. We just don't know yet, so it is irresponsible to speculate.

Tfw when you remove barricades and allow rioters closer to the capitol but you totally aren't colluding.

Again, here's a run-down of what the Capitol Police did yesterday:

- didn't have enough people to man the barricades
- let rioters through the barricades
- didn't regroup at a more manageable, shorter perimeter
- didn't regroup to seal the building's entrances
- didn't even regroup inside to prevent the House and Senate chambers from being besieged
- shadowed but did not stop rioters breaching the premises
- rejected offers of reinforcement from the feds
- didn't send their own reinforcements
- took selfies with the protesters

Now, any one of those things taken on its own might be evidence of incompetence rather than collusion, maybe even any pair of those things. But taken all together, one gets the distinct sense that perhaps something fishy was afoot.

[Jerzylvania]

Trump loses office in 13 days. There is 0 point.

Sure there is. We can try Trump earlier so he has less time to flee the country.

Or keep him from starting a shooting war with Iran.

[Bombadil]

You know what clearly points to collusion? That there weren't hundreds of dead "protestors", like there would be if BLM or antifa even considered something like this.

Your argument is based on a contrapositive you cannot prove. We don't know how they would have reacted if it were BLM or Antifa. And anyway the charge is not whether or not DC police acted well or poorly; it's whether or not they were colluding. These are two different things.

We do know because we saw it earlier in the year, ranked armed police on the steps of the Capitol.

[Valrifell]

You know what clearly points to collusion? That there weren't hundreds of dead "protestors", like there would be if BLM or antifa even considered something like this.

Your argument is based on a contrapositive you cannot prove. We don't know how they would have reacted if it were BLM or Antifa. And anyway the charge is not whether or not DC police acted well or poorly; it's whether or not they were colluding. These are two different things.

You mean counterfactual.

[Omniabstracta]

Your argument is based on a contrapositive you cannot prove. We don't know how they would have reacted if it were BLM or Antifa. And anyway the charge is not whether or not DC police acted well or poorly; it's whether or not they were colluding. These are two different things.

We do know because we saw it earlier in the year, ranked armed police on the steps of the Capitol.

Even Lindsey fucking Graham pointed out of his own volition that things would have been very different if this was a BLM protest, I don’t know why this is a point of contention for anybody.

[New Rogernomics]

In December, Congress increased Capitol Police funding by $51 million, bringing the department's budget to $515 million

look at all that useful spending

They clearly spent it going after that church in DC a while ago, attacking it with tear gas and attack dogs, so that Trump could set up a propaganda photo with a bible.

[Kowani]

Pelosi is apparently angry, willing to pursue impeachment

[Senkaku]

You know what clearly points to collusion? That there weren't hundreds of dead "protestors", like there would be if BLM or antifa even considered something like this.

Your argument is based on a contrapositive you cannot prove. We don't know how they would have reacted if it were BLM or Antifa. And anyway the charge is not whether or not DC police acted well or poorly; it's whether or not they were colluding. These are two different things.

Yes, it is still speculation at this point, but it seems to be reasonably well-founded speculation given what we know of yesterday's events. This is what I believe to have happened based on an analysis of the facts available to me and I expect my interpretation will be borne out if and when a thorough investigation of the Capitol Police force is done. There is a chance I'm wrong, but based on everything we already know, I really doubt it. I'm not sure why you're on here yelling that no one is allowed to interpret events playing out before their very eyes until we "know everything," if you applied the same standard to any other area of life we'd all just sit on our asses until the stars burned out.

[Senkaku]

Pelosi is apparently angry, willing to pursue impeachment

Nothing riles up old white ladies like a break-in or vandalism lmao

[Dominioan]

Pelosi is apparently angry, willing to pursue impeachment

Is there a point to it though? Or just a symbolic thing at this point

[Bombadil]

Pelosi is apparently angry, willing to pursue impeachment

Good, they can bring it to the floor in two days.. impeachment is the best option really.

Not once but twice, christ what a failure of a presidency.

[Comfed]

In BLM protests peaceful protestors were faced with rows of riot police. Yesterday in the Capitol the police opened gates for an armed mob.

[Omniabstracta]

Pelosi is apparently angry, willing to pursue impeachment

Is there a point to it though? Or just a symbolic thing at this point

If the Senate convicts, he wouldn’t be able to again run for office. Otherwise, it’s just for the distinction of the only man to be impeached by the House twice.

[San Lumen]

They have free will. He only got a plurality in the primary. His base is not enough to win an election. If Republicans consolidate in 2024 they can prevent him from being renominated.

He only got a plurality in the 2016 primary, but the Republican base is far more radical now than it was then. Trump still has something like a 90% approval rating among registered republicans, and 68% think the 2020 election was stolen. They live in a different reality.

EDIT: I do want to make it clear that I agree the most likely outcome is that Trump (any trump) won't be on the 2024 ticket. But I do think that family and allies will continue to have an immense hold over the base of the party for years to come. There is a real chance that Republicans will spend the next four years waging a war against their own establishment, which will end either with it splitting or the party being completely co-opted.

The base isn't enough to win in most places and without him on the ballot they are going to have a hard time winning going forward. I suspect a large number of primary challenges in the next cycle.