Do we even need police?

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

Apprehending criminals.

Which police don't seem to be doing very well- in some countries they fail to do so entirely, while in others they force innocent people to confess to crimes they never committed.

And, admittedly, those are issues. Corruption exists within the police system. I do not seek to deny that.

[Sanghyeok]

Which police don't seem to be doing very well- in some countries they fail to do so entirely, while in others they force innocent people to confess to crimes they never committed.

And, admittedly, those are issues. Corruption exists within the police system. I do not seek to deny that.

The entire system itself is corrupt: this is not a case of some polluted water in a pond but the whole river being made of waste.

[Tornado Queendom]

Police are often seen as something necessary to protect lives, prevent crime, and preserve order. However, in practice this has rarely been the case in countries around the world. Instead, cases abound where police have failed to complete their duties, and instead not only bring harm to their communities through brutalising and terrorising their residents through beatings and sexual assault, continuously place business interests above the common people's, and preserving property instead of lives among others. Instead, some policy makers propose replacing police with solutions we know to be effective, such as rehabilitation of criminals as opposed to punitive punishment, decriminalising non-violent crimes, and spend more on mental health care, housing and education.

What do you think about police abolition entirely (in all nations) ? I support immediate reforms to reduce police power and provide more funding to welfare initiatives that reduce incentives and necessity for crime, with a long term plan of removing police as an institution.

Let's just replace it with Private Police and Public Executions. In fact...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDO6HV6xTmI

[Tornado Queendom]

And, admittedly, those are issues. Corruption exists within the police system. I do not seek to deny that.

The entire system itself is corrupt: this is not a case of some polluted water in a pond but the whole river being made of waste.

OR you could just replace it with Private Security and publicly execute people on TV.
George Carlin had the right idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDO6HV6xTmI

[Kowani]

Police are often seen as something necessary to protect lives, prevent crime, and preserve order. However, in practice this has rarely been the case in countries around the world. Instead, cases abound where police have failed to complete their duties, and instead not only bring harm to their communities through brutalising and terrorising their residents through beatings and sexual assault, continuously place business interests above the common people's, and preserving property instead of lives among others. Instead, some policy makers propose replacing police with solutions we know to be effective, such as rehabilitation of criminals as opposed to punitive punishment, decriminalising non-violent crimes, and spend more on mental health care, housing and education.

What do you think about police abolition entirely (in all nations) ? I support immediate reforms to reduce police power and provide more funding to welfare initiatives that reduce incentives and necessity for crime, with a long term plan of removing police as an institution.

Let's just replace it with Private Police and Public Executions. In fact...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDO6HV6xTmI

10/10 idea, this could never backfire in any way

[The Lone Alliance]

Similarly there is no need to abolish police. The police itself is almost never an actual cause of social issues. Instead look at what’s behind it.

I agree. But, if we solve the issues behind social issues, then what do we need the police for?

For the people who do things simply because they're assholes. Not every crime is done by necessity or because of society issues, some people just do things because they like to make the world worse.

[ImperialRussia]

You can invite the national guard the, UN you name it

[SD_Film Artists]

Apprehending criminals.

Which police don't seem to be doing very well- in some countries they fail to do so entirely, while in others they force innocent people to confess to crimes they never committed.

But generally, in 1st and 2nd world countries, they do catch crims. It's been 34 pages and you've yet to give an alternative.

[Kowani]

Which police don't seem to be doing very well- in some countries they fail to do so entirely, while in others they force innocent people to confess to crimes they never committed.

But generally, in 1st and 2nd world countries, they do catch crims. It's been 34 pages and you've yet to give an alternative.

…Do I have to repost about how they do not, in effect, catch crimes

[SD_Film Artists]

But generally, in 1st and 2nd world countries, they do catch crims. It's been 34 pages and you've yet to give an alternative.

…Do I have to repost about how they do not, in effect, catch crimes

American police stats (or from another country) are still not an alternative.

[Kowani]

…Do I have to repost about how they do not, in effect, catch crimes

American police stats (or from another country) are still not an alternative.

what

[SD_Film Artists]

American police stats (or from another country) are still not an alternative.

what

Please don't make this 35 pages of directionless police-hating. What's the alternative to the police?

[Kowani]

what

Please don't make this 35 pages of directionless police-hating. What's the alternative to the police?

broadly speaking, because it's almost 3:30 in the morning here and i do not have the energy for a large debate
eliminate the incentives to commit crime, let the community protect itself if absolutely necessary
and no, that's not the misguided "community policing" that liberals love
none of this "specialized in only one skill and that is violence in the name of the state" bullshit

[The Oviar Republic]

It will eliminate the existence of policing as a job in which racists and sadists can carry out their will, and the people will no longer have to suffer under the brutality of these servants of capital.

Something tells me this "abolish police" crowd is incredibly America-centric in their arguments, relying on things that seemingly only happen in America.

I haven't heard a single non-American example of police abuse of powers or anything in this thread that would prove that the police absolutely need to be abolished. That's like saying we should abolish China because "well it's all bad right now and historically so it'll never change." It's like you guys forgot about reformism and have just gone to dogmatic revolutionary fervor. It's illogical and irrational.

police=gud

[Vex Aternus]

You’re an absolute idiot if you don’t know the answer to that question. I’m so fucking tired of seeing pOliCe bAD sheep-brains like you acting as if police are the most evil force to exist. I’m willing to bet you never thought twice about this issue prior to 2020, yet now all of a sudden it’s all your angry dim-witted little mind can parrot. Law enforcement is/was present in pretty much every successful society. Why? Because degenerates and defectives enjoy tearing down and destroying structures that keep order, and they tend to wreak havoc on society if they are not detained.

Most of the so-called “unjust” killings made by the police were done towards violent lunatics who would have definitely killed others or caused excessive damage if they weren’t dealt with forcibly. That isn’t to say that there aren’t a few bad apples, but you’re infinitely stupid if you use the small flawed minority to justify getting rid of an entire organization that has served a vital purpose throughout history. No doubt you’re the exact same type of person who’ll scream “dEFUnd dA pOLiCe” in the streets, but then piss your pants and wail for the cops the minute someone triggers your social anxiety. People like you are sickening.

It’s quite amazing how many of you losers think police are bad when many of the largest riots and violent protests were spurned by the same types of people who most hate police. Criminals are more likely to hold liberal and anti-police views as well. Hmm. I wonder why.

Get a fucking clue.

[SD_Film Artists]

Please don't make this 35 pages of directionless police-hating. What's the alternative to the police?

eliminate the incentives to commit crime

Greed and anger will always exist. If the deterrent of jail isn't enough I think there could and should be cultural changes where people are taught to see crime as an immoral option if that's not already there from good parenting. Still, it's not a total alternative to the police.

What-is-the-alternative-to-the-police?

let the community protect itself if absolutely necessary

You know the whole point of why the police were created in the first place was for unarmed citizens to police themselves by consent, rather than relying on the army, private guards or bounty hunters. That's why I'm in favour of de-militarising the police except for when SWAT teams are required.

and no, that's not the misguided "community policing" that liberals love
none of this "specialized in only one skill and that is violence in the name of the state" bullshit

If it's not violent community vigilantes (which I agree would be bad) then what is it?

[New Visayan Islands]

You’re an absolute idiot if you don’t know the answer to that question. I’m so fucking tired of seeing pOliCe bAD sheep-brains like you acting as if police are the most evil force to exist. I’m willing to bet you never thought twice about this issue prior to 2020, yet now all of a sudden it’s all your angry dim-witted little mind can parrot. Law enforcement is/was present in pretty much every successful society. Why? Because degenerates and defectives enjoy tearing down and destroying structures that keep order, and they tend to wreak havoc on society if they are not detained.

Most of the so-called “unjust” killings made by the police were done towards violent lunatics who would have definitely killed others or caused excessive damage if they weren’t dealt with forcibly. That isn’t to say that there aren’t a few bad apples, but you’re infinitely stupid if you use the small flawed minority to justify getting rid of an entire organization that has served a vital purpose throughout history. No doubt you’re the exact same type of person who’ll scream “dEFUnd dA pOLiCe” in the streets, but then piss your pants and wail for the cops the minute someone triggers your social anxiety. People like you are sickening.

It’s quite amazing how many of you losers think police are bad when many of the largest riots and violent protests were spurned by the same types of people who most hate police. Criminals are more likely to hold liberal and anti-police views as well. Hmm. I wonder why.

Get a fucking clue.

Good day!

I see you're new to the forums; this post right here is an example of how not to contribute to a discussion. While you can argue in defense of law enforcement, it is entirely possible to do so without referring to those who call for defunding the same as "absolute idiots," "sheep-brains," and "losers." Were it not for the egregious nature of this post I would have simply loomed; that being said, take this unofficial warning for flaming and trolling as a reminder to read the Rules.

Thanks!
NVI

[Bahia Roja]

You’re an absolute idiot if you don’t know the answer to that question. I’m so fucking tired of seeing pOliCe bAD sheep-brains like you acting as if police are the most evil force to exist. I’m willing to bet you never thought twice about this issue prior to 2020, yet now all of a sudden it’s all your angry dim-witted little mind can parrot. Law enforcement is/was present in pretty much every successful society. Why? Because degenerates and defectives enjoy tearing down and destroying structures that keep order, and they tend to wreak havoc on society if they are not detained.

Most of the so-called “unjust” killings made by the police were done towards violent lunatics who would have definitely killed others or caused excessive damage if they weren’t dealt with forcibly. That isn’t to say that there aren’t a few bad apples, but you’re infinitely stupid if you use the small flawed minority to justify getting rid of an entire organization that has served a vital purpose throughout history. No doubt you’re the exact same type of person who’ll scream “dEFUnd dA pOLiCe” in the streets, but then piss your pants and wail for the cops the minute someone triggers your social anxiety. People like you are sickening.

It’s quite amazing how many of you losers think police are bad when many of the largest riots and violent protests were spurned by the same types of people who most hate police. Criminals are more likely to hold liberal and anti-police views as well. Hmm. I wonder why.

Get a fucking clue.

You want to take five minutes to relax, friend? Sounds like you're not in a good mood.

[My Political Fantasy]

This thread can't really think beyond step one of what society would be like without police. People who have advocated for police abolition dabble in the theoretical but don't advise anything specific and concrete. If the people who advocate for police abolition can't step beyond the realm of the theoretical then police abolition seems kind of pointless in my eyes. If you truly want to have a society without police, then you need to have a close-knit society where everyone knows each other.

[Adamede]

This thread can't really think beyond step one of what society would be like without police. People who have advocated for police abolition dabble in the theoretical but don't advise anything specific and concrete. If the people who advocate for police abolition can't step beyond the realm of the theoretical then police abolition seems kind of pointless in my eyes. If you truly want to have a society without police, then you need to have a close-knit society where everyone knows each other.

And it’s for those reason that as crazy as the ideology and its believers are anarcho primitivism is probably the only really workable anarchist ideology.

[Crilland]

see, we need police but they need extensive training in not using force regularly. and jesus dont use guns when kids are using airsoft guns look for the orange tips

[Freiheit Reich]

Yes, we need the police BUT the USA is turning into a police state. I have ideas to reduce the number of police (but police can't be entirely eliminated):

1) Take away unnecessary laws (such as not being allowed to drink beer in public or being forced to wear a seat belt or a bike helmet) and then the police will only have to focus on serious matters.

2) Greatly reduce illegal immigration and slightly reduce legal immigration which will result in a lower population growth rate (meaning fewer police will need to be hired).

3) Subsidize birth control and abortions which will result in a lower population growth rate (meaning fewer police will need to be hired).

4) Legalize marijuana for consumption in private areas and decriminalize marijuana use in public areas (fines/community service if caught using it in a public park).

5) Make cities more pedestrian friendly reducing the need for traffic police as fewer people will need (or want) to drive.

6) Improve prisons to rehabilitate criminals so they can adapt better to the outside world. Don't treat them like savage animals. Also, seal criminal records once criminals are released so they can get jobs more easily (reducing their odds of being sent to prison again). This goes for ALL criminals-including sex offenders. Do the crime, do the time, and get a fresh start.

7) Bring back caning. I think caning will make criminals know what they did is wrong and reduce the number of repeat offenders. Singapore has a low crime rate and caning might be one reason for this.

These are a few ideas among many possibilities.

[Freiheit Reich]

It's also law enforcement.

Saying police enforce laws is inaccurate in most cases. Do they enforce pollution laws or financial crimes? Do they ensure building standards are followed? Do they consider corruption, wage theft and compensation issues, and workplace safety?

They enforce criminal and traffic laws. There are both civil and criminal courts. However, if you refuse to pay fines for civil violations then the police can get you. Try refusing to pay property tax and refuse to leave 'your' property when the govt. says to and see who comes to force you off the property. White-collar criminals who refuse to turn themselves in are arrested by the police and the police put them in prison as well.

[Page]

I don't think caning would really make a difference, I mean how is a few minutes of pain worse than being in jail? Plus jails and prisons are violent places to begin with, people get the shit beat out of them over nothing, so I don't see how the state doing it as an official punishment would worry any criminals.

[SD_Film Artists]

Yes, we need the police BUT the USA is turning into a police state. I have ideas to reduce the number of police (but police can't be entirely eliminated):

1) Take away unnecessary laws (such as not being allowed to drink beer in public or being forced to wear a seat belt or a bike helmet) and then the police will only have to focus on serious matters.

I agree with the beer but not using seatbelts or motorcycle helmets is an incredibly moronic thing to do. There's just no excuse for it.