Do we even need police?

[Nilokeras]

By international law and custom, civilians are those who do not carry arms, not those who are part of law enforcement mechanisms. Police bureaucrats and court officials, for example, are still civilians.

ci·vil·ian
/səˈvilyən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person not in the armed services or the police force.\
adjective
of, denoting, or relating to a person not belonging to the armed services or police.

Civilian
In general use, a civilian is "a person who is not a member of the police, the armed forces, or a fire department."

The definition of civilians as persons who are not members of the armed forces is set forth in Article 50 of Additional Protocol I, to which no reservations have been made.[1] It is also contained in numerous military manuals.[2] It is reflected in reported practice.[3] This practice includes that of States not, or not at the time, party to Additional Protocol I.[4]

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

No, they need a warrant first.

Hope the Totally Not Police officer can identify the suspect's ass, because that's all he's going to see when the suspect moons him as he flees...

[Nilokeras]

No, they need a warrant first.

Isn't their committing a violent crime in front of an officer enough?

Sure it is. The public security officer can call up dispatch, speak to a civilian official and receive permission to move from their intervention to prevent harm to an arrest.

[An-Tanwir]

I don't see an end to policing as in any way a fix to the issue. There should be regulated, trained, and accountable bodies to enforce the law. Police should be demilitarized and have racists purged from their ranks tho.

[The Two Jerseys]

Isn't their committing a violent crime in front of an officer enough?

Sure it is. The public security officer can call up dispatch, speak to a civilian official and receive permission to move from their intervention to prevent harm to an arrest.

Congratulations, you've just gotten multiple people killed by an armed gunman.

[Des-Bal]

The definition of civilians as persons who are not members of the armed forces is set forth in Article 50 of Additional Protocol I, to which no reservations have been made.[1] It is also contained in numerous military manuals.[2] It is reflected in reported practice.[3] This practice includes that of States not, or not at the time, party to Additional Protocol I.[4]

That's a specific technical definition for a group dealing with international armed conflict, I could talk in fishing jargon but it would be fucking weird.

But with more red tape.

And more abrogations of rights. If I get stopped by a cop on the highway it's his responsibility not to dawdle because I am not under arrest and you can't just detain people for extended periods, you can't even call for drug dogs that can be there in five minutes. It is unconscionable that someone could be held without cause while five superfluous institutions play telephone.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

Sure it is. The public security officer can call up dispatch, speak to a civilian official and receive permission to move from their intervention to prevent harm to an arrest.

Congratulations, you've just gotten multiple people killed by an armed gunman.

Who mooned the officer before escaping into the night.

[The Two Jerseys]

Congratulations, you've just gotten multiple people killed by an armed gunman.

Who mooned the officer before escaping into the night.

More like teabagged the officer's corpse at this point...

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

Who mooned the officer before escaping into the night.

More like teabagged the officer's corpse at this point...

And crossed into the next town, where he changed his appearance and got a fake ID.

[Adamede]

Isn't their committing a violent crime in front of an officer enough?

Sure it is. The public security officer can call up dispatch, speak to a civilian official and receive permission to move from their intervention to prevent harm to an arrest.

Sounds like an intervention to prevent harm is a scenario that’s likely to end with someone dead or seriously injured.

[Velosia]

More like teabagged the officer's corpse at this point...

And crossed into the next town, where he changed his appearance and got a fake ID.

All in the time it took dispatch to give the go-ahead.

[Sanghyeok]

More like teabagged the officer's corpse at this point...

And crossed into the next town, where he changed his appearance and got a fake ID.

I'm surprised there are so many Don Quixote fans here, with all of these windmills being put up.

[Sanghyeok]

Sure it is. The public security officer can call up dispatch, speak to a civilian official and receive permission to move from their intervention to prevent harm to an arrest.

Sounds like an intervention to prevent harm is a scenario that’s likely to end with someone dead or seriously injured.

I suppose you've never experienced policing in countries? Many countries have police which rarely carry weapons outside of batons, and others have police where traffic police and regular police are separate.

[Adamede]

Sounds like an intervention to prevent harm is a scenario that’s likely to end with someone dead or seriously injured.

I suppose you've never experienced policing in countries? Many countries have police which rarely carry weapons outside of batons, and others have police where traffic police and regular police are separate.

Then maybe that’s better than police abolition.

And in many nations police officers armed.

[Sanghyeok]

No, the public security officer would accompany the social worker in their duties. Again: the key is the subordination of those who are trained to apply violence to civilians.

So the public security officers are like cops except if you see one in a moment of crisis they won't help you because they lack permission. They're more like insecurity officers, the assurance that an arm of the state exists to impotently watch you die.

Public security officers would be able to apply some force to prevent active violence, but even such cases would be rare because crimes are not usually found while they are taking place.

[Sanghyeok]

I suppose you've never experienced policing in countries? Many countries have police which rarely carry weapons outside of batons, and others have police where traffic police and regular police are separate.

Then maybe that’s better than police abolition.

And in many nations police officers armed.

It is an improvement, but there are more steps we can take beyond those positive first reforms.

[Adamede]

Then maybe that’s better than police abolition.

And in many nations police officers armed.

It is an improvement, but there are more steps we can take beyond those positive first reforms.

Such as?

[Sanghyeok]

It is an improvement, but there are more steps we can take beyond those positive first reforms.

Such as?

Abolishment of police as they exist today, and diverting their resources into more useful areas which are shown to be more effective in controlling crime (which we've been mentioning for over forty pages by now).

[Adamede]

Such as?

Abolishment of police as they exist today, and diverting their resources into more useful areas which are shown to be more effective in controlling crime (which we've been mentioning for over forty pages by now).

And people have been repeatedly stating why it wouldn’t be enough.
The lay 40 pages have been a fucking draining tourist bowl of circle jerks.

[Sanghyeok]

Abolishment of police as they exist today, and diverting their resources into more useful areas which are shown to be more effective in controlling crime (which we've been mentioning for over forty pages by now).

And people have been repeatedly stating why it wouldn’t be enough.
The lay 40 pages have been a fucking draining tourist bowl of circle jerks.

Nobody has been saying this would be an instant change. In any case, I have full confidence that our proposal would at least be better than the status quo in many countries.

[Adamede]

And people have been repeatedly stating why it wouldn’t be enough.
The lay 40 pages have been a fucking draining tourist bowl of circle jerks.

Nobody has been saying this would be an instant change. In any case, I have full confidence that our proposal would at least be better than the status quo in many countries.

Doesn’t matter if it’s instantaneous or takes place over a thousand years. Still need to use a stick from time to time.

[Sanghyeok]

Nobody has been saying this would be an instant change. In any case, I have full confidence that our proposal would at least be better than the status quo in many countries.

Doesn’t matter if it’s instantaneous or takes place over a thousand years. Still need to use a stick from time to time.

And none of us have said the stick won't be used (although I would disagree with your claim that we will still need them in a thousand years).

[Adamede]

Doesn’t matter if it’s instantaneous or takes place over a thousand years. Still need to use a stick from time to time.

And none of us have said the stick won't be used (although I would disagree with your claim that we will still need them in a thousand years).

Humanity hasn’t changed in any significant way in at least 80k years. I doubt we’re going to change to any great extent in another thousand either.

Remember, utopia isn’t a real place.

[Cordel One]

And none of us have said the stick won't be used (although I would disagree with your claim that we will still need them in a thousand years).

Humanity hasn’t changed in any significant way in at least 80k years. I doubt we’re going to change to any great extent in another thousand either.

Remember, utopia isn’t a real place.

Just because perfection isn't real doesn't mean things can't significantly improve.

[The Two Jerseys]

And crossed into the next town, where he changed his appearance and got a fake ID.

I'm surprised there are so many Don Quixote fans here, with all of these windmills being put up.

Funny, because the only people tilting at windmills are those who think that abolishing the police is a good idea...