Nilokeras wrote:
Circular definitions are non-idiotic now? News to me.
Fishermen are those who fish, pilots are those who pilot, and police are those who police. That is a straight line. I am shocked you don't know what a circle is.
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by Des-Bal » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 pm
Nilokeras wrote:
Circular definitions are non-idiotic now? News to me.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Dorylaeumnia » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:37 pm
by Labbos » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:41 am
Nilokeras wrote:Labbos wrote:What if while they're arresting the mugger they come across somebody building a bomb to carry out an imminent terrorist attack, do they wish that person a nice day and fill out form 73C when they get back to the office to let the prosecutorial service know?
What is there's something similar to what happened at Capital Hill. Who takes action there, and who decides what action they should take?
I encourage you to read the rest of the thread and piece together yourself based on what I've said what you think the answer is.
by SD_Film Artists » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:53 am
Labbos wrote:
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=police+definition
"the civil force of a state, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order"Nilokeras wrote:
I encourage you to read the rest of the thread and piece together yourself based on what I've said what you think the answer is.
Is this where there's a special force of not-police, who turn up with their weapons to do police-like things, but call for someone else to do the arresting afterwards? That special force are police.
by Kubra » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:48 am
because this "militarised police" that was not called police was based out of an aspiration to abolish police, *as I said*. Police abolition became policing but worse. You're *really* committed to this non-topic, are you?Labbos wrote:Kubra wrote:We could talk historical forms of police abolition. The USSR's secret police aside, they decided not to call their regular police "police" for obvious reasons, which ironically worked out to something more structurally militarised than what we expect of civilian police (well, apart from the American kind am I right), a not-police that may have been in some way worse than regular ol' police. Isn't that a much more fun and much more *substantial* topic, and one that arguably supports your own views?
Having different people work as police isn't abolishing the police, even if they're called something else.
And why do you think that a militarised police being worse than regular police supports my views? Sure, that's going to be better than no police, but I live in the UK and am very happy that the police I see don't regularly carry guns and that judges are the ones who sign arrest warrants. But also that the police can also arrest you on the spot rather than waiting for somebody else to make the decision if they catch you doing something. And then the decision to prosecute or decide how long a suspect is held is once more in the hands of judges.
Sometimes this thread reads as though it's from a US perspective, with the assumption that the US system is the best, and so any problems should be solved with radical solutions rather than looking for best practices from around the planet.
by Des-Bal » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:10 am
Treciene wrote:I mean we need it for safety. There could be a pledge not to be racist toward others
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Labbos » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:44 am
Kubra wrote:because this "militarised police" that was not called police was based out of an aspiration to abolish police, *as I said*. Police abolition became policing but worse. You're *really* committed to this non-topic, are you?
by Galloism » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:46 am
by Des-Bal » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:02 pm
Galloism wrote:Yeah. Sexism is a way bigger factor than racism.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Sanghyeok » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:45 am
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Sanghyeok » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:47 am
Des-Bal wrote:Galloism wrote:Yeah. Sexism is a way bigger factor than racism.
I don't think the biggest issues are bias. My biggest concern is that there are issues with police procedure and police culture that result in unnecessary incidents occurring and being mishandled or even covered up. Many inexcusable lapses occur in high pressure situations, like trying to safely restrain an uncooperative man and keep him out of traffic, being shot at by an unseen assailant, or seeing a man with a weapon make a sudden move to disarm himself.
I think we should approach the issue by looking at what circumstances inspire panic and focus more training on how to handle them. Isolating a group and deciding hatred of that group is the problem doesn't seem like a viable strategy.
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by SD_Film Artists » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:19 pm
Sanghyeok wrote:Des-Bal wrote:I don't think the biggest issues are bias. My biggest concern is that there are issues with police procedure and police culture that result in unnecessary incidents occurring and being mishandled or even covered up. Many inexcusable lapses occur in high pressure situations, like trying to safely restrain an uncooperative man and keep him out of traffic, being shot at by an unseen assailant, or seeing a man with a weapon make a sudden move to disarm himself.
I think we should approach the issue by looking at what circumstances inspire panic and focus more training on how to handle them. Isolating a group and deciding hatred of that group is the problem doesn't seem like a viable strategy.
We recognise that good police are often forced into bad behaviours by their system.
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:30 am
Sanghyeok wrote:
I would argue the greatest factor is class, since all police systems around the world are classist. However racism remains a major issue in many nations. I am not sure about sexism between police and civilians, but I do know there is significant sexism within police themselves.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
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by Sanghyeok » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:39 am
Des-Bal wrote:Sanghyeok wrote:
I would argue the greatest factor is class, since all police systems around the world are classist. However racism remains a major issue in many nations. I am not sure about sexism between police and civilians, but I do know there is significant sexism within police themselves.
This really shows your bias, police must be classist and they're probably racist but we can't be sure about sexism even though over 90% of people killed by the police are male. You're not motivated by facts or evidence because your every opinion on this issue is just some facet of a broader mishmosh of communist bullshit.
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:57 am
Sanghyeok wrote:
Most of my research and reading on the subject has to do with class or (in some contexts) race. I said I'm unsure about sexism in interactions between police and civilians not because my opinions are a "mishmosh of communist bullshit", but rather because I'm not informed enough on that issue to make a conclusion. You're more than welcome to send me reading on why you believe that is an issue, and I'll read it.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Sanghyeok » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 am
Des-Bal wrote:Sanghyeok wrote:
Most of my research and reading on the subject has to do with class or (in some contexts) race. I said I'm unsure about sexism in interactions between police and civilians not because my opinions are a "mishmosh of communist bullshit", but rather because I'm not informed enough on that issue to make a conclusion. You're more than welcome to send me reading on why you believe that is an issue, and I'll read it.
I don't believe it's a major issue I think that when you start looking at numbers it's striking how well they all fit together and where people choose to focus their attention comes down to what they would like to be outraged by and it's a game that people play at every point on the political compass. If you want to be outraged by the resources wasted dealing with the innately criminal minority of your choice you can, if you want to seethe about how the cops don't get held accountable you can.
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:49 am
Sanghyeok wrote:So you believe police are not discriminatory in any way?
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Page » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:09 am
Des-Bal wrote:Sanghyeok wrote:So you believe police are not discriminatory in any way?
If people were arguing police give leeway to recidivists, issue tickets, or initiate Terry stops in a discriminatory way I'd agree that's likely the case. The issue is when we get into talking about the police being a racist cabal beating and murdering targets of opportunity. I don't think that incidents like the kind which have ignited nationwide protests are generally caused or even especially influenced by racism.
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:12 am
Page wrote:
The police uphold white supremacy, this is true whether the individual cops are or are not white supremacists themselves. When the federal government implemented extreme sentencing for crack cocaine and made the felony quantity so small that people were treated like drug dealers for possessing a personal supply that would last them less than a day, this was a deliberate act of oppression against the black community intended to fill up the prisons, a policy of white supremacy. That is just one example.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Sanghyeok » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:25 am
Des-Bal wrote:Page wrote:
The police uphold white supremacy, this is true whether the individual cops are or are not white supremacists themselves. When the federal government implemented extreme sentencing for crack cocaine and made the felony quantity so small that people were treated like drug dealers for possessing a personal supply that would last them less than a day, this was a deliberate act of oppression against the black community intended to fill up the prisons, a policy of white supremacy. That is just one example.
The police uphold the law, if you want to bitch about the law do it to lawmakers.
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:32 am
Sanghyeok wrote:
You would make a good point, except in theory we are all treated the same under the law.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Kowani » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:35 am
Des-Bal wrote:Sanghyeok wrote:So you believe police are not discriminatory in any way?
If people were arguing police give leeway to recidivists, issue tickets, or initiate Terry stops in a discriminatory way I'd agree that's likely the case. The issue is when we get into talking about the police being a racist cabal beating and murdering targets of opportunity. I don't think that incidents like the kind which have ignited nationwide protests are generally caused or even especially influenced by racism.
by Page » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:42 am
Des-Bal wrote:Page wrote:
The police uphold white supremacy, this is true whether the individual cops are or are not white supremacists themselves. When the federal government implemented extreme sentencing for crack cocaine and made the felony quantity so small that people were treated like drug dealers for possessing a personal supply that would last them less than a day, this was a deliberate act of oppression against the black community intended to fill up the prisons, a policy of white supremacy. That is just one example.
The police uphold the law, if you want to bitch about the law do it to lawmakers.
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