Do we even need police?

[Adamede]

Humanity hasn’t changed in any significant way in at least 80k years. I doubt we’re going to change to any great extent in another thousand either.

Remember, utopia isn’t a real place.

Just because perfection isn't real doesn't mean things can't significantly improve.

And that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that the level of perfection you all are talking about is impossible with this current form of humanity.
A humanity a thousand years form now where no form of policing or any force is required isn’t going to be anything we’d consider truly human.
At that point you start entering the fever dreams of transhumanism, which may or may not be possible.

And even then it’s extremely unlikely.

[Cordel One]

Just because perfection isn't real doesn't mean things can't significantly improve.

And that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that the level of perfection you all are talking about is impossible with this current form of humanity.
A humanity a thousand years form now where no form of policing or any force is required isn’t going to be anything we’d consider truly human.
At that point you start entering the fever dreams of transhumanism, which may or may not be possible.

And even then it’s extremely unlikely.

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

And that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that the level of perfection you all are talking about is impossible with this current form of humanity.
A humanity a thousand years form now where no form of policing or any force is required isn’t going to be anything we’d consider truly human.
At that point you start entering the fever dreams of transhumanism, which may or may not be possible.

And even then it’s extremely unlikely.

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

Your naivety in this is also as bad, you believe in a fantasy utopia as an ideal world. Said utopia is incompatible with the real world, because some people are just bad and to bad things for no particular reason

[Adamede]

And that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that the level of perfection you all are talking about is impossible with this current form of humanity.
A humanity a thousand years form now where no form of policing or any force is required isn’t going to be anything we’d consider truly human.
At that point you start entering the fever dreams of transhumanism, which may or may not be possible.

And even then it’s extremely unlikely.

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

[Cordel One]

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

Your naivety in this is also as bad, you believe in a fantasy utopia as an ideal world. Said utopia is incompatible with the real world, because some people are just bad and to bad things for no particular reason

Not to be rude or anything but considering your ideology you really don't have much credibility on the matter.

[Cordel One]

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

That is verifiably false

[Sanghyeok]

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

Change will occur. At what pace such change will occur is not something you and I can predict, but we can be sure society in 1,000 years will be completely foreign to us. After all 70 years ago our species was confined to Earth's atmosphere, 120 years ago we were confined to land, 200 years ago it took three months to reach Edo from London.

[Sanghyeok]

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

Humans are not perfect yet.

[Cordel One]

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

That is verifiably false

Verify it, then. Hobbes was far from the only one who considered it to be such.

[Adamede]

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s also a bad argument considering there have been dozens of not hundreds of various forms of democracies before the modern age.

I never said people where bad, I said they weren’t perfect. We don’t live in a perfect world,-‘d short of uploading ourselves into a computer we never will. We will never eradicate that which breeds violence, be it nature or nurture, not completely. And so some form of policing body will be required for such situations.

[Sanghyeok]

How cynical of you. You underestimate how much sociology can change society.

Your naivety in this is also as bad, you believe in a fantasy utopia as an ideal world. Said utopia is incompatible with the real world, because some people are just bad and to bad things for no particular reason

Is it not better to dream of what we can achieve instead of settling with what has been achieved thus far? Humanity's evolution will continue regardless of our wishes.

[Adamede]

Says the dreamer.
It’s not cynicism, it’s just acknowledging that humans aren’t perfect.

And I’ve yet to see any evidence about how sociology will make policing of some form obsolete.

Humans are not perfect yet.

They never will be. A perfect being likely isn’t even possible, and even if it was it would be so far removed from what we consider human.

[Sanghyeok]

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s also a bad argument considering there have been dozens of not hundreds of various forms of democracies before the modern age.

I never said people where bad, I said they weren’t perfect. We don’t live in a perfect world,-‘d short of uploading ourselves into a computer we never will. We will never eradicate that which breeds violence, be it nature or nurture, not completely. And so some form of policing body will be required for such situations.

I completely agree with you that we don't live in a perfect world yet, or that we still need some form of policing for the near future. But to say "never" when discussing our future is rather silly, considering how much may be achieved in so little time.

[Cordel One]

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

Change will occur. At what pace such change will occur is not something you and I can predict, but we can be sure society in 1,000 years will be completely foreign to us. After all 70 years ago our species was confined to Earth's atmosphere, 120 years ago we were confined to land, 200 years ago it took three months to reach Edo from London.

One thing that's never changed is the belief that the current society is the pinnacle of advancement.

[Sanghyeok]

Humans are not perfect yet.

They never will be. A perfect being likely isn’t even possible, and even if it was it would be so far removed from what we consider human.

Maybe you're right, maybe I am. Our imperfect minds cannot grasp at the idea of perfection or what that would mean.

[Cordel One]

If you look back in history you can see that people have always doubted that we'd have the ability to advance to different forms of civilization. Under monarchy, for example, it was a commonly held belief that democracy was impossible. The thing is that most people aren't bad, and most atrocities stem from ignorance and/or corruption.

That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s also a bad argument considering there have been dozens of not hundreds of various forms of democracies before the modern age.

I never said people where bad, I said they weren’t perfect. We don’t live in a perfect world,-‘d short of uploading ourselves into a computer we never will. We will never eradicate that which breeds violence, be it nature or nurture, not completely. And so some form of policing body will be required for such situations.

As has been stated previously, there are alternatives to policing.

[ImperialRussia]

Ya national guard is better

[Sanghyeok]

Change will occur. At what pace such change will occur is not something you and I can predict, but we can be sure society in 1,000 years will be completely foreign to us. After all 70 years ago our species was confined to Earth's atmosphere, 120 years ago we were confined to land, 200 years ago it took three months to reach Edo from London.

One thing that's never changed is the belief that the current society is the pinnacle of advancement.

Perhaps one day we'll reach communism, and realise Marx was wrong: communism too is but another step in human advancement. Or perhaps we'll destroy ourselves before achieving it.

[Unikitty]

Probably No Or Yes

[Adamede]

That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s also a bad argument considering there have been dozens of not hundreds of various forms of democracies before the modern age.

I never said people where bad, I said they weren’t perfect. We don’t live in a perfect world,-‘d short of uploading ourselves into a computer we never will. We will never eradicate that which breeds violence, be it nature or nurture, not completely. And so some form of policing body will be required for such situations.

I completely agree with you that we don't live in a perfect world yet, or that we still need some form of policing for the near future. But to say "never" when discussing our future is rather silly, considering how much may be achieved in so little time.

It’s about as silly as saying that we’re unlikely to ever actually expand beyond our solar system as a civilization, possibly species. But even that is more likely than a perfect society.

Perfection just isn’t really something that exists.

Change will occur. At what pace such change will occur is not something you and I can predict, but we can be sure society in 1,000 years will be completely foreign to us. After all 70 years ago our species was confined to Earth's atmosphere, 120 years ago we were confined to land, 200 years ago it took three months to reach Edo from London.

One thing that's never changed is the belief that the current society is the pinnacle of advancement.

Keep on building those strawmen...

That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s also a bad argument considering there have been dozens of not hundreds of various forms of democracies before the modern age.

I never said people where bad, I said they weren’t perfect. We don’t live in a perfect world,-‘d short of uploading ourselves into a computer we never will. We will never eradicate that which breeds violence, be it nature or nurture, not completely. And so some form of policing body will be required for such situations.

As has been stated previously, there are alternatives to policing.

And I keep telling you that they’re not alternatives, they’re preventive measures, just like how putting out your campfire when you leave isn’t an alternative to fire fighting.

[Sanghyeok]

I completely agree with you that we don't live in a perfect world yet, or that we still need some form of policing for the near future. But to say "never" when discussing our future is rather silly, considering how much may be achieved in so little time.

It’s about as silly as saying that we’re unlikely to ever actually expand beyond our solar system as a civilization, possibly species. But even that is more likely than a perfect society.

Perfection just isn’t really something that exists.

One thing that's never changed is the belief that the current society is the pinnacle of advancement.

Keep on building those strawmen...

As has been stated previously, there are alternatives to policing.

And I keep telling you that they’re not alternatives, they’re preventive measures, just like how putting out your campfire when you leave isn’t an alternative to fire fighting.

Cordel and I have proposed both preventative measures and responding measures such as unarmed patrols of either former convicts (already being used in several US cities) or volunteers.

[Unikitty]

Probably Not and yes.

[Adamede]

It’s about as silly as saying that we’re unlikely to ever actually expand beyond our solar system as a civilization, possibly species. But even that is more likely than a perfect society.

Perfection just isn’t really something that exists.

Keep on building those strawmen...

And I keep telling you that they’re not alternatives, they’re preventive measures, just like how putting out your campfire when you leave isn’t an alternative to fire fighting.

Cordel and I have proposed both preventative measures and responding measures such as unarmed patrols of either former convicts (already being used in several US cities) or volunteers.

And that’s not enough. There comes a point where force, or at least an armed response, needs to be used.

And your neighborhood watch isn’t cut out for that, and an armed mob isn’t a good idea either, even if they are a bunch of locals.

[Adamede]

Probably Not and yes.

Don’t repeat yourself please.