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The Rise of China

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:19 pm
by Infected Mushroom
I’ve just read that China’s economy may overtake the US economy as world number one by 2028.

I am very excited about this and I would hope that China can avoid some of the pitfalls (ex fighting expensive and controversial wars to topple governments oceans away) that other top economic powers have run into. I am hoping for a new century of peace, economic cooperation and global growth. While Chinese economic partnerships in Africa and elsewhere have created some inequality (which in my view is inevitable), they have also objectively brought up the GDPs of those countries by providing capital. I would hope that China continues its trademark policies of encouraging win-win economic solutions and opportunities for everyone.

Sources:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-55454146

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... vertake-us

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... my-earlier

NSG, what do you think the world will look like? I am very optimistic.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:23 pm
by Jershaland
China is an authoritarian state arguably currently committing genocide against its Muslim population. It is also imperialistic. So if your looking for peace they aren't the ones that are going to bring it.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:26 pm
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
Jershaland wrote:China is an authoritarian state arguably currently committing genocide against its Muslim population. It is also imperialistic. So if your looking for peace they aren't the ones that are going to bring it.

Don't forget their active suppression of any dissent (as well as their ridiculous censorship of calling Xi Jinping "Winnie the Pooh"). China's rise to global power will only lead to the rise of authoritarianism.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:28 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
Jershaland wrote:China is an authoritarian state arguably currently committing genocide against its Muslim population. It is also imperialistic. So if your looking for peace they aren't the ones that are going to bring it.

Yeah, not to mention their continued funding of horrible regimes like Iran and North Korea. They also wish to keep being a superpower, and: THE ONLY ONE. Now, I hate that the US isn’t going to be in it’s current position anymore, but I don’t want only one superpower, I at least want 3, as the polarization during the Cold War (not counting ideological/political reasons) was BECAUSE there was only 2 superpowers! Yes of course there is always the non-aligned nations.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:29 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:
Jershaland wrote:China is an authoritarian state arguably currently committing genocide against its Muslim population. It is also imperialistic. So if your looking for peace they aren't the ones that are going to bring it.

Don't forget their active suppression of any dissent (as well as their ridiculous censorship of calling Xi Jinping "Winnie the Pooh"). China's rise to global power will only lead to the rise of authoritarianism.

I feel the same way, buddy

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm
by Khoronzon
westerners may cope as hard as they like but china will continue to advance :bow: :bow: president xi jinping will usher in the new chinese century for global prosperity :D deng gang stay winning

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:37 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
Khoronzon wrote:westerners may cope as hard as they like but china will continue to advance :bow: :bow: president xi jinping will usher in the new chinese century for global prosperity :D deng gang stay winning

And what exactly is prosperous about an authoritarian (arguably) nation? What about censorship and religious and ethnic cleansing?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:37 pm
by Nekostan-e Gharbi
Khoronzon wrote:westerners may cope as hard as they like but china will continue to advance :bow: :bow: president xi jinping will usher in the new chinese century for global prosperity :D deng gang stay winning


I hope it won’t.

I keep saying that China has to be abolished since its very existence just like the existence of slavery has very serious socioeconomic consequences worldwide.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:37 pm
by The Lone Alliance
China can only sustain itself when the rest of the world allows it and the rest of the world has started to realize the costs of sustaining China.

Eventually it'll come to a head and violence will happen.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:38 pm
by Aeritai
Oh wonderful... Another China thread. Yeah something tells me this is going to end the same way as other threads about China.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:40 pm
by Nekostan-e Gharbi
The Lone Alliance wrote:China can only sustain itself when the rest of the world allows it and the rest of the world has started to realize the costs of sustaining China.

Eventually it'll come to a head and violence will happen.


It has to happen.

We should ponder why slavery had to be abolished. The existence of slavery anywhere threatens free labor everywhere and that slavery as an institution inherently increases the amount of authoritarianism even among non-slaves.

Now we can talk about why China must be abolished. The 2,200-year-old Sinostatist tradition starting from Qin and the infamous Machiavellian “reformer”, Shang Yang, treats human lives as having zero value. As long as China exists dictators worldwide are emboldened and every ruler feels like they could get away with being an asshole as long as they are strong enough. In this sense the difference between liberal democracies and China is comparable to the difference between law-abiding people and organized crime.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:41 pm
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
Aeritai wrote:Oh wonderful... Another China thread. Yeah something tells me this is going to end the same way as other threads about China.

Pro-CCP communists clashing with moderates clashing with those wanting China to be fractured?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:44 pm
by Aeritai
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:
Aeritai wrote:Oh wonderful... Another China thread. Yeah something tells me this is going to end the same way as other threads about China.

Pro-CCP communists clashing with moderates clashing with those wanting China to be fractured?


Yep

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:45 pm
by Khoronzon
Aeritai wrote:Yeah something tells me this is going to end the same way as other threads about China.

with coping westerners? yeah sounds about right they're perpetually jealous and afraid of deng gang 8) the proud chinese dragon will eat the fat obese uncle sam :bow: :bow:

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:45 pm
by Nekostan-e Gharbi
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:
Aeritai wrote:Oh wonderful... Another China thread. Yeah something tells me this is going to end the same way as other threads about China.

Pro-CCP communists clashing with moderates clashing with those wanting China to be fractured?


Sinostatists are actually usually not really communist. In fact they are closer to fascist than communist just like China itself.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:46 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
The Lone Alliance wrote:China can only sustain itself when the rest of the world allows it and the rest of the world has started to realize the costs of sustaining China.

Eventually it'll come to a head and violence will happen.

The real question is not IF, but WHEN. Which is... I guess you never know when violence will happen. You never know when someone is going to try and murder you, right? (Not saying China is trying to murder us, just an example)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:48 pm
by Nekostan-e Gharbi
GermanNationalRepublic wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:China can only sustain itself when the rest of the world allows it and the rest of the world has started to realize the costs of sustaining China.

Eventually it'll come to a head and violence will happen.

The real question is not IF, but WHEN. Which is... I guess you never know when violence will happen. You never know when someone is going to try and murder you, right? (Not saying China is trying to murder us, just an example)


It’s probably not going to be a hot war. However when China develops world class surveillance & censorship tech and export it to other countries the world will look more and more like China. Neither the auth left nor the auth right has qualms about censorship and mass surveillance. They just want to use it for very different purposes. Hence both will import these dangerous tech from China. Eventually freedom will die worldwide. That’s analogous to the mafia penetrating and corrupting the entire society and even creating a mafia state.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:48 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
Khoronzon wrote:
Aeritai wrote:Yeah something tells me this is going to end the same way as other threads about China.

with coping westerners? yeah sounds about right they're perpetually jealous and afraid of deng gang 8) the proud chinese dragon will eat the fat obese uncle sam :bow: :bow:

Well, hopefully the future generations will put up a fight against China, an oppressive nation.

If violence does break out, hopefully there is less nukes than I expect

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:55 pm
by Luziyca
The rise of China is a good thing for Canada, given that while China will influence us as it continues to rise, particularly if the Canadian government aligns itself with it, the degree of Chinese influence over Canada will never reach the point of American influence over Canada by the simple facet of geography.

It would be better for the EU to get their shit together, but alas, you have to make do with what you have right now, and like it or not, China is the only viable alternative to America out there.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:57 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
Luziyca wrote:The rise of China is a good thing for Canada, given that while China will influence us as it continues to rise, particularly if the Canadian government aligns itself with it, the degree of Chinese influence over Canada will never reach the point of American influence over Canada by the simple facet of geography.

It would be better for the EU to get their shit together, but alas, you have to make do with what you have right now, and like it or not, China is the only viable alternative to America out there.

Not even Russia? India?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:57 pm
by Nekostan-e Gharbi
Luziyca wrote:The rise of China is a good thing for Canada, given that while China will influence us as it continues to rise, particularly if the Canadian government aligns itself with it, the degree of Chinese influence over Canada will never reach the point of American influence over Canada by the simple facet of geography.

It would be better for the EU to get their shit together, but alas, you have to make do with what you have right now, and like it or not, China is the only viable alternative to America out there.


China believes that no lives matter and has no principle. It isn’t even Soviet Union 2.0 while Soviets oppressive as they were did have some principles. Please be very careful about what you want.

America, EU, India etc are normal countries analogous to different groups of law-abiding people. Nazi Germany is analogous to something like Los Zetas. China is analogous to something like the Italian mafia. These things should have no place on Planet Earth.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:58 pm
by Nekostan-e Gharbi
GermanNationalRepublic wrote:
Luziyca wrote:The rise of China is a good thing for Canada, given that while China will influence us as it continues to rise, particularly if the Canadian government aligns itself with it, the degree of Chinese influence over Canada will never reach the point of American influence over Canada by the simple facet of geography.

It would be better for the EU to get their shit together, but alas, you have to make do with what you have right now, and like it or not, China is the only viable alternative to America out there.

Not even Russia? India?


India and EU are.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:59 pm
by Luziyca
GermanNationalRepublic wrote:
Luziyca wrote:The rise of China is a good thing for Canada, given that while China will influence us as it continues to rise, particularly if the Canadian government aligns itself with it, the degree of Chinese influence over Canada will never reach the point of American influence over Canada by the simple facet of geography.

It would be better for the EU to get their shit together, but alas, you have to make do with what you have right now, and like it or not, China is the only viable alternative to America out there.

Not even Russia? India?

If this were thirty years ago, the Soviets would have by far been a serious contender. But despite Putin's efforts, Russia doesn't quite pack the same punch as the Soviets once did.

And, well, India may have a bit of soft power, but there's no chance in hell that they're going to be projecting power beyond the Indian Ocean anytime soon.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:00 pm
by GermanNationalRepublic
Luziyca wrote:
GermanNationalRepublic wrote:Not even Russia? India?

If this were thirty years ago, the Soviets would have by far been a serious contender. But despite Putin's efforts, Russia doesn't quite pack the same punch as the Soviets once did.

And, well, India may have a bit of soft power, but there's no chance in hell that they're going to be projecting power beyond the Indian Ocean anytime soon.

I guess you are right, but India and Russia (not combined) can still pack some serious punches (at least to China).

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:01 pm
by Punished UMN
It already has overtaken it by Purchasing Power Parity and really by any reasonable metric. GDP (nominal) is a stupid metric.