The Rise of China

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I can’t decipher if that’s groveling nihilism or what I call “pink haired leftism.”

It's simply the acceptance of reality as opposed to inhaling someone else's legalized marijuana (*cough* Oregon, Canada/other winners who love writing the history books). Don't get started on Denver's "shrooms."

I strongly hate both drugs and China. These two evils are of course related as the latter sells the former.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Abolition of China is a necessity.

[Picairn]

It's simply the acceptance of reality as opposed to inhaling someone else's legalized marijuana (*cough* Oregon, Canada/other winners who love writing the history books). Don't get started on Denver's "shrooms."

What's wrong with legalizing marijuana and ending the War on Drugs? Have China stomped out addiction with their draconian laws yet or are they still spending more money into the pit?

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

It's simply the acceptance of reality as opposed to inhaling someone else's legalized marijuana (*cough* Oregon, Canada/other winners who love writing the history books). Don't get started on Denver's "shrooms."

What's wrong with legalizing marijuana and ending the War on Drugs? Have China stomped out addiction with their draconian laws yet or are they still spending more money into the pit?

You don’t even need to be China to stamp out addiction. Just look at Japan.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

...I thought they already did?

GDP is a stupid metric.

Oh really? Wow. So I‘ve been living in the world’s largest economy this whole time? I just didn’t know? I’m shocked.

Measured by PPP, China is the world's largest economy ahead of the United States and European Union. Interestingly, the US passed the EU in this metric only in 2019, and that remained in 2020.

China's economic growth has declined year by year, and although they'll bounce back from COVID, they aren't going to recover their GDP growth. And that's bad news for China, because they need to start reaping financial rewards from their investments into Africa or their entire economic plan will fall apart.

That’s obviously not going to happen.

You mean China reaping rewards from Africa? In that case, I agree. China making money off of Africa now or in the near future isn't going to happen.

[Prozitia]

Well, at last.

[Recreated Irish Republic]

I’ve just read that China’s economy may overtake the US economy as world number one by 2028.

I am very excited about this and I would hope that China can avoid some of the pitfalls (ex fighting expensive and controversial wars to topple governments oceans away) that other top economic powers have run into. I am hoping for a new century of peace, economic cooperation and global growth. While Chinese economic partnerships in Africa and elsewhere have created some inequality (which in my view is inevitable), they have also objectively brought up the GDPs of those countries by providing capital. I would hope that China continues its trademark policies of encouraging win-win economic solutions and opportunities for everyone.

Sources:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-55454146

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... vertake-us
Uhm I thought China overtook the US in 2020
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... my-earlier

NSG, what do you think the world will look like? I am very optimistic.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

I can’t decipher if that’s groveling nihilism or what I call “pink haired leftism.”

It's simply the acceptance of reality as opposed to inhaling someone else's legalized marijuana (*cough* Oregon, Canada/other winners who love writing the history books). Don't get started on Denver's "shrooms."

History isn't written by the victors, that's just a myth.

Also if you want to get rid of drugs, continuing the War on Drugs isn't the answer. Rehabilitating those people and reconnecting them to society are the answers to this issue.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

It's simply the acceptance of reality as opposed to inhaling someone else's legalized marijuana (*cough* Oregon, Canada/other winners who love writing the history books). Don't get started on Denver's "shrooms."

History isn't written by the victors, that's just a myth.

Also if you want to get rid of drugs, continuing the War on Drugs isn't the answer. Rehabilitating those people and reconnecting them to society are the answers to this issue.

That’s a Sinic belief lol. Rehabilitation definitely worked in removing meth from the nation that invented and mass applied it (Japan). However it does not work when those who abuse it are socially marginalized.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Oh really? Wow. So I‘ve been living in the world’s largest economy this whole time? I just didn’t know? I’m shocked.

Measured by PPP, China is the world's largest economy ahead of the United States and European Union. Interestingly, the US passed the EU in this metric only in 2019, and that remained in 2020.

That’s obviously not going to happen.

You mean China reaping rewards from Africa? In that case, I agree. China making money off of Africa now or in the near future isn't going to happen.

Yup. Everyone needs to get out of Sub-Saharan Africa. Cool thing can only happen from within. Dangote and his peers have actually sustainably developed SSA. China or UK can not sustainably develop it.

[Infected Mushroom]

Oh really? Wow. So I‘ve been living in the world’s largest economy this whole time? I just didn’t know? I’m shocked.

Measured by PPP, China is the world's largest economy ahead of the United States and European Union. Interestingly, the US passed the EU in this metric only in 2019, and that remained in 2020.

Wow that's really amazing

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Measured by PPP, China is the world's largest economy ahead of the United States and European Union. Interestingly, the US passed the EU in this metric only in 2019, and that remained in 2020.

Wow that's really amazing

Nope. It’s bad enough that what needs to be abolished still exists. It is even worse when abolition is hard.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Oh really? Wow. So I‘ve been living in the world’s largest economy this whole time? I just didn’t know? I’m shocked.

Measured by PPP, China is the world's largest economy ahead of the United States and European Union. Interestingly, the US passed the EU in this metric only in 2019, and that remained in 2020.

If you divide GDP by PPP, you will find that the larger the number is,the less developed the country is.So it's not necessarily a good thing that China's PPP is higher
US PPP/GDP = 1
Japan2019 5.45B PPP / 5.082B GDP =1.07
EU 2019 20.7 B PPP /18.292 B GDP =1.13
China 2019 23.4 B PPP /14.34 B GDP =1.63
India 2019 9.61B PPP/2.869 B GDP =3.34

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

History isn't written by the victors, that's just a myth.

Also if you want to get rid of drugs, continuing the War on Drugs isn't the answer. Rehabilitating those people and reconnecting them to society are the answers to this issue.

That’s a Sinic belief lol. Rehabilitation definitely worked in removing meth from the nation that invented and mass applied it (Japan). However it does not work when those who abuse it are socially marginalized.

I have no idea what you're talking about considering China did not pioneer drugs nor rehabilitation.

Why do you keep twisting things to fit your narrative of "China needs to be abolished?"

Measured by PPP, China is the world's largest economy ahead of the United States and European Union. Interestingly, the US passed the EU in this metric only in 2019, and that remained in 2020.

If you divide GDP by PPP, you will find that the larger the number is,the less developed the country is.So it's not necessarily a good thing that China's PPP is higher
US PPP/GDP = 1
Japan2019 5.45B PPP / 5.082B GDP =1.07
EU 2019 20.7 B PPP /18.292 B GDP =1.13
China 2019 23.4 B PPP /14.34 B GDP =1.63
India 2019 9.61B PPP/2.869 B GDP =3.34

I find it hard to believe that the US would be considered the highest developed on this list. Really, the EU should be higher than that.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

If you divide GDP by PPP, you will find that the larger the number is,the less developed the country is.

Considering what PPP is, all this is saying is that prices are higher in more developed nations. Which is completely obvious.

[Engadine Mcdonalds 1997]

Honestly what I'm absolutely dumbfounded about this whole "China are evil warmongers planning to invade the world" that us in Australia get pushed onto us by everyone, who has The CCP invaded since the civil war? Tibet (read Michael Parenti's 'Friendly Feudalism', you'll understand how the CCP were liberators to Tibet), intervened in the Korean war because they felt threatened by the amount of forces rolling back a neighbour who, let's be real, probably would have continued the whole way into Manchuria knowing Americans, Vietnam after the Americans dropped agent orange all over the country, and border skirmishes against the Indians every couple of years. All of these partake around Chinese borders, already more justified than the Americans
Compare that to the Americans who are always at war with someone else across the globe for some bull reason (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (both times) and Cambodia come to mind)

Then there is also the sheer amount of military coups launched by the CIA against innocent nations wanting self determination, such as Bolivia recently, as well as nation like Argentina, Brazil, Indonesia, the Congo, Iran, and the regime changes anyways like here in Australia with Gough Whitlam in the 70's and (potentially) Kevin Rudd in 2010. How many nations have been regime changed by China? I'm guessing if they did any regime changes, they're all across their local area, not a nation that's across the world

Just my 2 cents on China

[Yuzu China]

Honestly what I'm absolutely dumbfounded about this whole "China are evil warmongers planning to invade the world" that us in Australia get pushed onto us by everyone, who has The CCP invaded since the civil war? Tibet (read Michael Parenti's 'Friendly Feudalism', you'll understand how the CCP were liberators to Tibet), intervened in the Korean war because they felt threatened by the amount of forces rolling back a neighbor who, let's be real, probably would have continued the whole way into Manchuria knowing Americans, Vietnam after the Americans dropped agent orange all over the country, and border skirmishes against the Indians every couple of years. All of these partake around Chinese borders, already more justified than the Americans
Compare that to the Americans who are always at war with someone else across the globe for some bull reason (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (both times) and Cambodia come to mind)

Then there is also the sheer amount of military coups launched by the CIA against innocent nations wanting self determination, such as Bolivia recently, as well as nation like Argentina, Brazil, Indonesia, the Congo, Iran, and the regime changes anyways like here in Australia with Gough Whitlam in the 70's and (potentially) Kevin Rudd in 2010. How many nations have been regime changed by China? I'm guessing if they did any regime changes, they're all across their local area, not a nation that's across the world

Just my 2 cents on China

Don't forget Israel and the Congo, of all places. The most improbable/bizarre intervention.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Honestly what I'm absolutely dumbfounded about this whole "China are evil warmongers planning to invade the world" that us in Australia get pushed onto us by everyone, who has The CCP invaded since the civil war? Tibet (read Michael Parenti's 'Friendly Feudalism', you'll understand how the CCP were liberators to Tibet), intervened in the Korean war because they felt threatened by the amount of forces rolling back a neighbour who, let's be real, probably would have continued the whole way into Manchuria knowing Americans, Vietnam after the Americans dropped agent orange all over the country, and border skirmishes against the Indians every couple of years. All of these partake around Chinese borders, already more justified than the Americans
Compare that to the Americans who are always at war with someone else across the globe for some bull reason (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (both times) and Cambodia come to mind)

Then there is also the sheer amount of military coups launched by the CIA against innocent nations wanting self determination, such as Bolivia recently, as well as nation like Argentina, Brazil, Indonesia, the Congo, Iran, and the regime changes anyways like here in Australia with Gough Whitlam in the 70's and (potentially) Kevin Rudd in 2010. How many nations have been regime changed by China? I'm guessing if they did any regime changes, they're all across their local area, not a nation that's across the world

Just my 2 cents on China

No matter what China does or does not do it needs to be abolished. The very existence of China is a source of absence of freedom and absence of human dignity.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Honestly what I'm absolutely dumbfounded about this whole "China are evil warmongers planning to invade the world" that us in Australia get pushed onto us by everyone, who has The CCP invaded since the civil war? Tibet (read Michael Parenti's 'Friendly Feudalism', you'll understand how the CCP were liberators to Tibet), intervened in the Korean war because they felt threatened by the amount of forces rolling back a neighbour who, let's be real, probably would have continued the whole way into Manchuria knowing Americans, Vietnam after the Americans dropped agent orange all over the country, and border skirmishes against the Indians every couple of years. All of these partake around Chinese borders, already more justified than the Americans
Compare that to the Americans who are always at war with someone else across the globe for some bull reason (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (both times) and Cambodia come to mind)

Then there is also the sheer amount of military coups launched by the CIA against innocent nations wanting self determination, such as Bolivia recently, as well as nation like Argentina, Brazil, Indonesia, the Congo, Iran, and the regime changes anyways like here in Australia with Gough Whitlam in the 70's and (potentially) Kevin Rudd in 2010. How many nations have been regime changed by China? I'm guessing if they did any regime changes, they're all across their local area, not a nation that's across the world

Just my 2 cents on China

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Honestly what I'm absolutely dumbfounded about this whole "China are evil warmongers planning to invade the world" that us in Australia get pushed onto us by everyone, who has The CCP invaded since the civil war? Tibet (read Michael Parenti's 'Friendly Feudalism', you'll understand how the CCP were liberators to Tibet), intervened in the Korean war because they felt threatened by the amount of forces rolling back a neighbour who, let's be real, probably would have continued the whole way into Manchuria knowing Americans, Vietnam after the Americans dropped agent orange all over the country, and border skirmishes against the Indians every couple of years. All of these partake around Chinese borders, already more justified than the Americans
Compare that to the Americans who are always at war with someone else across the globe for some bull reason (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (both times) and Cambodia come to mind)

Then there is also the sheer amount of military coups launched by the CIA against innocent nations wanting self determination, such as Bolivia recently, as well as nation like Argentina, Brazil, Indonesia, the Congo, Iran, and the regime changes anyways like here in Australia with Gough Whitlam in the 70's and (potentially) Kevin Rudd in 2010. How many nations have been regime changed by China? I'm guessing if they did any regime changes, they're all across their local area, not a nation that's across the world

Just my 2 cents on China

No matter what China does or does not do it needs to be abolished. The very existence of China is a source of absence of freedom and absence of human dignity.

Reality does not care about your feelings. China objectively sucks and hence has to be abolished.

It's funny how you say "reality does not care about your feelings," but then you say crap like this:

CCP is generally a continuation of the old Chinese empires with the exception of the Deng-Hu period which was a oligarchic republic that could have potentially liberalized. The main reason why it didn’t work is that the social conservative Xi supported by social conservatives (such as the Sinostatists who hate freedom you see here) took power.

So it is obvious that the problem is China existing and the only solution is abolitionism. Abolish China and establish variants of Israel in what used to be China. Problem solved.

This is a completely contradictory post. You say that China could have liberalized but didn't because of social conservatives, then go on to say that the problem is China, disregarding what you just said.

It's blatantly obvious that your ideas are not at all grounded in reality, given how you treat China as if it's the problem and don't think a united Chinese liberal state is even possible. As we've seen with the Republic of China (which I've already explained is actually more Chinese than China is), the Chinese are absolutely capable of democracy, contrary to what your narrative of having to divide China into artificial states suggests. Please, read up on Chinese history before saying crap like this. Chinese history isn't a history of "sinostatism" or whatever BS term you use, it's a history of empire, and only because of the imperial system. After it was abolished, China transformed into a nation-state, with a full set of nationalist and unity-driven ideals. The Xinhai Revolution of 1911 wasn't just a revolution of democracy, but also of Chinese nationalism. An attempt to create a true Chinese nation-state that could resist foreign influence, as opposed to being subjugated to it like you want it to be. Contrary to what you might think, there is now an actual, real, proper sense of Chinese unity and nationalism. This was instilled into the populace back in 1911, and the CCP has sustained it (for good or bad) to the present. You seem to treat China as if it's still in the imperial era, with the same stability issues (that were only related to power) that it used to have. Well guess what Nekostan, it's 2021. China has essentially shifted from an imperial system that encouraged corruption through power-hungry warlords to a proper, fully-fledged, nation-state that can run itself properly without having to collapse into 500 billion warlord states. The only thing holding China back now is the CCP, not China's existence itself. Remove the CCP and you remove the only authoritarian element still in charge of China. Period. You have still, despite my appeals, not properly provided evidence to the contrary, and I won't be taking you seriously until you do.

In conclusion, please try and actually provide evidence that China's existence is inherently a bad thing. You have seemingly avoided that, and I want you to actually come up with a reasoned justification for abolishing China's existence. So far, all you have done is essentially gone in circles pretending like you're actually arguing something. Well that stops now. I want a clear, concise, logical response from you that details why and how China's very existence is bad for China and the world.

Sincerely,
Sicily

P.S, I have no idea what your fantasy of Sangleyia is. The Sangley are apparently a people of mixed Chinese and Filipino ancestry, but that has nothing to do with China proper. So uh, please elaborate.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

No matter what China does or does not do it needs to be abolished. The very existence of China is a source of absence of freedom and absence of human dignity.

It's funny how you say "reality does not care about your feelings," but then you say crap like this:

This is a completely contradictory post. You say that China could have liberalized but didn't because of social conservatives, then go on to say that the problem is China, disregarding what you just said.

It's blatantly obvious that your ideas are not at all grounded in reality, given how you treat China as if it's the problem and don't think a united Chinese liberal state is even possible. As we've seen with the Republic of China (which I've already explained is actually more Chinese than China is), the Chinese are absolutely capable of democracy, contrary to what your narrative of having to divide China into artificial states suggests. Please, read up on Chinese history before saying crap like this. Chinese history isn't a history of "sinostatism" or whatever BS term you use, it's a history of empire, and only because of the imperial system. After it was abolished, China transformed into a nation-state, with a full set of nationalist and unity-driven ideals. The Xinhai Revolution of 1911 wasn't just a revolution of democracy, but also of Chinese nationalism. An attempt to create a true Chinese nation-state that could resist foreign influence, as opposed to being subjugated to it like you want it to be. Contrary to what you might think, there is now an actual, real, proper sense of Chinese unity and nationalism. This was instilled into the populace back in 1911, and the CCP has sustained it (for good or bad) to the present. You seem to treat China as if it's still in the imperial era, with the same stability issues (that were only related to power) that it used to have. Well guess what Nekostan, it's 2021. China has essentially shifted from an imperial system that encouraged corruption through power-hungry warlords to a proper, fully-fledged, nation-state that can run itself properly without having to collapse into 500 billion warlord states. The only thing holding China back now is the CCP, not China's existence itself. Remove the CCP and you remove the only authoritarian element still in charge of China. Period. You have still, despite my appeals, not properly provided evidence to the contrary, and I won't be taking you seriously until you do.

In conclusion, please try and actually provide evidence that China's existence is inherently a bad thing. You have seemingly avoided that, and I want you to actually come up with a reasoned justification for abolishing China's existence. So far, all you have done is essentially gone in circles pretending like you're actually arguing something. Well that stops now. I want a clear, concise, logical response from you that details why and how China's very existence is bad for China and the world.

Sincerely,
Sicily

P.S, I have no idea what your fantasy of Sangleyia is. The Sangley are apparently a people of mixed Chinese and Filipino ancestry, but that has nothing to do with China proper. So uh, please elaborate.

You are right that China is nominally a nation state. However in practice it never functioned like and does not function like one. The sense of unity you mentioned does not actually exist at all as Chinese nationalism is merely a conformist device as opposed to genuine love among Chinese people. The main use case of Chinese nationalism is people reporting on each other for being unpatriotic for personal gain.

[The Marlborough]

I find it hard to believe that the US would be considered the highest developed on this list. Really, the EU should be higher than that.

Why? Huge parts of Europe suffer from similar problems as the US or worse. Even countries like Germany and France have crumbling infrastructure problems. If southern Italy was independent it would be a developing country.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

I find it hard to believe that the US would be considered the highest developed on this list. Really, the EU should be higher than that.

Why? Huge parts of Europe suffer from similar problems as the US or worse. Even countries like Germany and France have crumbling infrastructure problems. If southern Italy was independent it would be a developing country.

That doesn't stop EU countries (outside of Eastern Europe, anyways) from having a higher HDI and comparable or even better infrastructure than the US.

Don't believe me? Here is the HDI, and here is the infrastructure quality rating.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

You are right that China is nominally a nation state. However in practice it never functioned like and does not function like one. The sense of unity you mentioned does not actually exist at all as Chinese nationalism is merely a conformist device as opposed to genuine love among Chinese people. The main use case of Chinese nationalism is people reporting on each other for being unpatriotic for personal gain.

...in 1911? When it was used as a tool to bolster democracy and overthrow the oppressive Qing Dynasty?

Come back when you've read up a little more on history, particularly the Xinhai Revolution.

[Infected Mushroom]

Honestly what I'm absolutely dumbfounded about this whole "China are evil warmongers planning to invade the world" that us in Australia get pushed onto us by everyone, who has The CCP invaded since the civil war? Tibet (read Michael Parenti's 'Friendly Feudalism', you'll understand how the CCP were liberators to Tibet), intervened in the Korean war because they felt threatened by the amount of forces rolling back a neighbour who, let's be real, probably would have continued the whole way into Manchuria knowing Americans, Vietnam after the Americans dropped agent orange all over the country, and border skirmishes against the Indians every couple of years. All of these partake around Chinese borders, already more justified than the Americans
Compare that to the Americans who are always at war with someone else across the globe for some bull reason (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (both times) and Cambodia come to mind)

Then there is also the sheer amount of military coups launched by the CIA against innocent nations wanting self determination, such as Bolivia recently, as well as nation like Argentina, Brazil, Indonesia, the Congo, Iran, and the regime changes anyways like here in Australia with Gough Whitlam in the 70's and (potentially) Kevin Rudd in 2010. How many nations have been regime changed by China? I'm guessing if they did any regime changes, they're all across their local area, not a nation that's across the world

Just my 2 cents on China

This is my thinking as well.