The Rise of China

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Swap China for Israel and re-read.

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

Israel is a PRC'ian ally in all but name. PRC is in fact their second plan should America ever dump them.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

It is true that ethnic Chinese merchants dominate trade in places such as Thailand..however these places are all outside China. China often prevents heathy trade from normally taking place with its insane policies.

There was once a time when Continental merchants speaking Low German dominated Scandinavian trade, to the point where the garrisons in Scandinavian cities swore oaths to be loyal to Low Germans and Low German merchants massacred Scandinavian natives in the streets of Stockholm and Bergen.

The German people have not been destroyed, and yet the German domination of Scandinavian trade has. Funny, that. Turns out it's not necessary to destroy a nation to change its nature, after all.

Culture is malleable.

It is. However changes in some directions are easier than changes in others. In a culture used to informants for thousands of years (the Qin started it) social trust does not exist and can not be rebuilt unless a radically different environment is imposed (e.g. Anglo or Japanese rule).

To make China a Germany-style ethnostate it needs at least minimum social trust among the Han. To make it a multiethnic democracy like Switzerland or Australia it further needs minimum social trust among all subjects-to-be-citizens. Such trust does not exist and can not be created out of thin air.

The social environment of China is not yet ready for a civic society. The persistence of CCP of course makes the problem even worse. This is why China needs to be abolished once and for all. Later if social trust can be rebuilt something else will rise from its corpse.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

Israel is a PRC'ian ally in all but name. PRC is in fact their second plan should America ever dump them.

It does not affect the nature of either Israel or China. Israel is still the safe haven for the Jewish people and China is still the unsafe anti-haven for the Chinese people. When Jewish people are threatened elsewhere they flee into Israel. When Chinese people are threatened by China we flee from China.

[Raioge]

Well.....Just a "Democracy Revoloution" can rise China.
It means Chinese people will get their Right and Political Freedom. Like they can use Youtube, Facebook, Line ...or the others without VPN.
And Uighurs will escape from CCP's "Labor Camp".
No one will DIE FROM The Dictatorship
Three Principle of People will In China
BEFORE:
COMMUNIST FACIST
AFTER REVOLOUTION:
FREE CHINA

[Miternet]

Israel is a PRC'ian ally in all but name. PRC is in fact their second plan should America ever dump them.

It does not affect the nature of either Israel or China. Israel is still the safe haven for the Jewish people and China is still the unsafe anti-haven for the Chinese people. When Jewish people are threatened elsewhere they flee into Israel. When Chinese people are threatened by China we flee from China.

Israel is still fucked up though.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

You're miscounting. I counted 9 EU members having a higher HDI than the US, and 5 EU members having better infrastructure.

A lot of EU members in both lists also aren't too far behind. Of course we're getting off topic here, since PPP is a measure of absolute purchasing power and so saying that it measures development is entirely irrelevant to the conversation (and plus it doesn't really measure development).

Either way, China's economy is the largest in the world when adjusted for its ability to buy stuff.

Only proves that the US and EU are comparable.

Revolutions don't happen without popular support. The Qing Dynasty had proven to be unpopular thanks to being the world's punching bag for a century, which is why the Qing were inevitably going to be ousted from power.

In my experience it's the other way around. Urban infrastructure is actually pretty good, but rural infrastructure pretty much sucks. I agree that suburban trumps both though, urban areas are a bit more compact and look like they get slightly less maintenance while rural areas usually have roads that look like they haven't been paved in decades lol

Your Sinostatist reasoning is indeed quite funny. China lost about 5 wars and it was supposedly the world’s punch bag for a century. I wonder what exactly are places that have actually become colonies such as the Philippines and Somalia. Countries such as Poland outright ceased to exist so what exactly were them?

Sinostatism indeed does wonders. The status of China and the status of the Chinese are so different that it is insane.

Sinostatism = anything I don't like. Congratulations, you just played yourself.

More to the point, China's lost wars were incredibly embarrassing defeats, and shattered their way of thinking that they were the "middle kingdom." They lost to the British in the First Opium War. Thousands of miles away. With many opportunities in the 1700s and early 1800s to get modern technology from them. The Chinese didn't think they needed it, and were absolutely humiliated when said technology was used against them. Then the Qing were embarrassed by the Taiping (Chinese Christians) who were beating the Qing so badly that they had to ask for French and British assistance in putting down such a revolt. Then the Second Opium War happened at a time when India was in full-scale revolt, and when the British would be weaker. Yet the Qing still lost, apparently not having learned the first time. Then the French invaded and that went nowhere, then the Japanese invaded and embarrassed the Qing for the fourth time. When you lose three major wars and one massive rebellion against a minority group in your own country, you know that state is weak and ripe for the taking. After Japan defeated China, Europe carved it up into spheres of influence (which is especially why this period was so horrifying to China). Finally at the turn of the century the Qing were obliterated by Europe, because they still had refused to modernize themselves.

So yeah, the number of wars isn't what matters. It's their size and significance to China. Europe was allowed free reign over China for nearly a century, that is how you become unpopular.

Also, just to refute your last points, you can't be a punching bag if you're already owned by someone. Colonies in Asia and Africa unfortunately didn't get the chance to fight back, and more importantly: they weren't historically major global superpowers like China was. That was the only reason why China maintained their belief in being the so-called "middle kingdom" for so long.

You're miscounting. I counted 9 EU members having a higher HDI than the US, and 5 EU members having better infrastructure.

A lot of EU members in both lists also aren't too far behind. Of course we're getting off topic here, since PPP is a measure of absolute purchasing power and so saying that it measures development is entirely irrelevant to the conversation (and plus it doesn't really measure development).

HDI:
- Ireland
- Germany
- Sweden
- Netherlands
- Denmark
- Finland
- Belgium
That is 7. Iceland, the UK, Norway and Switzerland are not part of the European Union.

Infrastructure:
- Austria
- Germany
- Sweden
- Netherlands
That's 4.

Quite a number of them are quite behind. The European Union as a whole isn't more developed than the United States and just focusing on non-EE states, it's still not that much more developed than the United States. People just aren't given images of all the decaying places in Europe because then Europe would have to admit to itself it's not super superior to everyone else.

Wait, whoops. I accidentally counted Norway and Iceland and excluded Austria. I keep mixing up the EU with NATO. :/

So here's my recount:
HDI:
-Ireland
-Germany
-Sweden
-Netherlands
-Denmark
-Finland
-Belgium

Infrastructure:
-Germany
-Sweden
-Belgium
-Austria
-Netherlands
-Denmark
-Finland

So both actually have the same 7 countries, just in a slightly different order. The only ones that are different are Austria and Ireland.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm more so arguing how the argument that "China are warmongers" is completely null and void. Oh no, China is expanding into... the South China sea, where the Americans already have their fingers in the pie, just like everywhere else. Do I want China to be my overlords? No, I just want to dispel some of the bull around it, and point out that our current overlord, Uncle Sam, is far more destructive but we just let it slide because of... reasons

Because America's a centrist (ew) neoliberal democracy while China is a state capitalist regime.

Warmongering by anyone for any reason is not ok regardless.

Swap China for Israel and re-read.

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

You'd be lying to yourself if you claim that China getting rid of their ethnic minorities is bad but Israel getting rid of their ethnic minorities is good.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

It does not affect the nature of either Israel or China. Israel is still the safe haven for the Jewish people and China is still the unsafe anti-haven for the Chinese people. When Jewish people are threatened elsewhere they flee into Israel. When Chinese people are threatened by China we flee from China.

Israel is still fucked up though.

No, it isn’t unless you are talking about the fact that Netanyahu is still in power. Israel rocks. If anything there are too few Israelis on this planet and Israel is way too small. If Israel obtains a part of Antarctica or purchases some land from some other country it will make the world a better place.

For example the entire world including China is facing desertification. Israel on the other hand not only doesn’t desertify but actually de-desertify over time. Even in this aspect China is the sheer opposite of Israel. Israel rocks and China sucks.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Your Sinostatist reasoning is indeed quite funny. China lost about 5 wars and it was supposedly the world’s punch bag for a century. I wonder what exactly are places that have actually become colonies such as the Philippines and Somalia. Countries such as Poland outright ceased to exist so what exactly were them?

Sinostatism indeed does wonders. The status of China and the status of the Chinese are so different that it is insane.

Sinostatism = anything I don't like. Congratulations, you just played yourself.

More to the point, China's lost wars were incredibly embarrassing defeats, and shattered their way of thinking that they were the "middle kingdom." They lost to the British in the First Opium War. Thousands of miles away. With many opportunities in the 1700s and early 1800s to get modern technology from them. The Chinese didn't think they needed it, and were absolutely humiliated when said technology was used against them. Then the Qing were embarrassed by the Taiping (Chinese Christians) who were beating the Qing so badly that they had to ask for French and British assistance in putting down such a revolt. Then the Second Opium War happened at a time when India was in full-scale revolt, and when the British would be weaker. Yet the Qing still lost, apparently not having learned the first time. Then the French invaded and that went nowhere, then the Japanese invaded and embarrassed the Qing for the fourth time. When you lose three major wars and one massive rebellion against a minority group in your own country, you know that state is weak and ripe for the taking. After Japan defeated China, Europe carved it up into spheres of influence (which is especially why this period was so horrifying to China). Finally at the turn of the century the Qing were obliterated by Europe, because they still had refused to modernize themselves.

So yeah, the number of wars isn't what matters. It's their size and significance to China. Europe was allowed free reign over China for nearly a century, that is how you become unpopular.

Also, just to refute your last points, you can't be a punching bag if you're already owned by someone. Colonies in Asia and Africa unfortunately didn't get the chance to fight back, and more importantly: they weren't historically major global superpowers like China was. That was the only reason why China maintained their belief in being the so-called "middle kingdom" for so long.

HDI:
- Ireland
- Germany
- Sweden
- Netherlands
- Denmark
- Finland
- Belgium
That is 7. Iceland, the UK, Norway and Switzerland are not part of the European Union.

Infrastructure:
- Austria
- Germany
- Sweden
- Netherlands
That's 4.

Quite a number of them are quite behind. The European Union as a whole isn't more developed than the United States and just focusing on non-EE states, it's still not that much more developed than the United States. People just aren't given images of all the decaying places in Europe because then Europe would have to admit to itself it's not super superior to everyone else.

Wait, whoops. I accidentally counted Norway and Iceland and excluded Austria. I keep mixing up the EU with NATO. :/

So here's my recount:
HDI:
-Ireland
-Germany
-Sweden
-Netherlands
-Denmark
-Finland
-Belgium

Infrastructure:
-Germany
-Sweden
-Belgium
-Austria
-Netherlands
-Denmark
-Finland

So both actually have the same 7 countries, just in a slightly different order. The only ones that are different are Austria and Ireland.

I'm more so arguing how the argument that "China are warmongers" is completely null and void. Oh no, China is expanding into... the South China sea, where the Americans already have their fingers in the pie, just like everywhere else. Do I want China to be my overlords? No, I just want to dispel some of the bull around it, and point out that our current overlord, Uncle Sam, is far more destructive but we just let it slide because of... reasons

Because America's a centrist (ew) neoliberal democracy while China is a state capitalist regime.

Warmongering by anyone for any reason is not ok regardless.

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

You'd be lying to yourself if you claim that China getting rid of their ethnic minorities is bad but Israel getting rid of their ethnic minorities is good.

Your views here are essentially the opposite of the views of both white supremacists and black supremacists (who both believe that European domination of the entire world is real) and are equally biased as theirs. The surge of West European colonization almost never resulted in loss of sovereignty, territories or ethnic cleansing in Northeast Asia while its effects everywhere else, even in Turkey, was much stronger. If we compare what happened in China between 1840 and 1945 to the loss of even ethnic Turks and Iranians who themselves were never under colonialism we can easily see that it’s almost nothing. Even compare that to earlier nomadic invasions of China it was still nothing. It’s both absurdly self-humiliating and hypocritical for anyone who is of agricultural NE Asian origins to claim to be a victim of colonialism since European flags almost never flew on our lands except in Hong Kong, Macau, Spanish & Dutch Formosa (which was ended by Koxinga), a few concessions less than 1% the area of China, embassies and consulates. Period. Even the Qing did much better than Ottomans, Qajars, Mughals and Marathas. We the people of agricultural NE Asia were almost entirely immune to European colonialism and in fact modernized and produced a major colonial power (Japan). It takes a high dose of NE Asia-centrism to claim that Opium Wars were very important while total conquest of Indian regimes by East India Company and numerous Indian famines under British Raj are irrelevant.

To be honest I’m also guilty of NE Asia-centrism. To me events that take place there (e.g. China and North Korea existing, covid in Taiwan and South Korea, tech in Japan etc) are way more important than events elsewhere (except in Israel) which I often ignore. Just like Eurocentrists of the both WN and anti-white kinds I attribute a lot of events, both awesome and awful, to actors in NE Asia. China, not Trump, Proud Boyz or BLM, is responsible for COVID and South Korea did and still does pretty well in containing it.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Okay. I have to ask at this point: define “Sinostatism”.

A clear, unambiguous definition is the precondition for any intellectually honest discussion.

[Uae Visa]

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

Israel is a PRC'ian ally in all but name. PRC is in fact their second plan should America ever dump them.

[Cordel One]

Swap China for Israel and re-read.

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

Tell that to the Palestinians.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

That’s of course nonsense since Israel is the opposite of China. The effects of Israel on the world is also the opposite of the effects of China on the world. Israel is a pretty normal developed ethnostate that is more humane than its peers. China on the other hand is an inverted empire. A typical empire conquerors with an ethnic core and transfers resources from conquered provinces to the ruling tribe. China on the other hand, while not run by ethnic minorities, profits from oppressing its core.

Tell that to the Palestinians.

Tell that to descendants of Algerian survivors of French “pacification” campaigns, Serbs & Croats & Bosniaks or Armenians & Azeris fighting over Nagorno-Karabakh. Israel is the most humane power that has ever existed.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Sinostatism = anything I don't like. Congratulations, you just played yourself.

More to the point, China's lost wars were incredibly embarrassing defeats, and shattered their way of thinking that they were the "middle kingdom." They lost to the British in the First Opium War. Thousands of miles away. With many opportunities in the 1700s and early 1800s to get modern technology from them. The Chinese didn't think they needed it, and were absolutely humiliated when said technology was used against them. Then the Qing were embarrassed by the Taiping (Chinese Christians) who were beating the Qing so badly that they had to ask for French and British assistance in putting down such a revolt. Then the Second Opium War happened at a time when India was in full-scale revolt, and when the British would be weaker. Yet the Qing still lost, apparently not having learned the first time. Then the French invaded and that went nowhere, then the Japanese invaded and embarrassed the Qing for the fourth time. When you lose three major wars and one massive rebellion against a minority group in your own country, you know that state is weak and ripe for the taking. After Japan defeated China, Europe carved it up into spheres of influence (which is especially why this period was so horrifying to China). Finally at the turn of the century the Qing were obliterated by Europe, because they still had refused to modernize themselves.

So yeah, the number of wars isn't what matters. It's their size and significance to China. Europe was allowed free reign over China for nearly a century, that is how you become unpopular.

Also, just to refute your last points, you can't be a punching bag if you're already owned by someone. Colonies in Asia and Africa unfortunately didn't get the chance to fight back, and more importantly: they weren't historically major global superpowers like China was. That was the only reason why China maintained their belief in being the so-called "middle kingdom" for so long.

Wait, whoops. I accidentally counted Norway and Iceland and excluded Austria. I keep mixing up the EU with NATO. :/

So here's my recount:
HDI:
-Ireland
-Germany
-Sweden
-Netherlands
-Denmark
-Finland
-Belgium

Infrastructure:
-Germany
-Sweden
-Belgium
-Austria
-Netherlands
-Denmark
-Finland

So both actually have the same 7 countries, just in a slightly different order. The only ones that are different are Austria and Ireland.

Because America's a centrist (ew) neoliberal democracy while China is a state capitalist regime.

Warmongering by anyone for any reason is not ok regardless.

You'd be lying to yourself if you claim that China getting rid of their ethnic minorities is bad but Israel getting rid of their ethnic minorities is good.

Your views here are essentially the opposite of the views of both white supremacists and black supremacists (who both believe that European domination of the entire world is real) and are equally biased as theirs. The surge of West European colonization almost never resulted in loss of sovereignty, territories or ethnic cleansing in Northeast Asia while its effects everywhere else, even in Turkey, was much stronger. If we compare what happened in China between 1840 and 1945 to the loss of even ethnic Turks and Iranians who themselves were never under colonialism we can easily see that it’s almost nothing. Even compare that to earlier nomadic invasions of China it was still nothing. It’s both absurdly self-humiliating and hypocritical for anyone who is of agricultural NE Asian origins to claim to be a victim of colonialism since European flags almost never flew on our lands except in Hong Kong, Macau, Spanish & Dutch Formosa (which was ended by Koxinga), a few concessions less than 1% the area of China, embassies and consulates. Period. Even the Qing did much better than Ottomans, Qajars, Mughals and Marathas. We the people of agricultural NE Asia were almost entirely immune to European colonialism and in fact modernized and produced a major colonial power (Japan). It takes a high dose of NE Asia-centrism to claim that Opium Wars were very important while total conquest of Indian regimes by East India Company and numerous Indian famines under British Raj are irrelevant.

To be honest I’m also guilty of NE Asia-centrism. To me events that take place there (e.g. China and North Korea existing, covid in Taiwan and South Korea, tech in Japan etc) are way more important than events elsewhere (except in Israel) which I often ignore. Just like Eurocentrists of the both WN and anti-white kinds I attribute a lot of events, both awesome and awful, to actors in NE Asia. China, not Trump, Proud Boyz or BLM, is responsible for COVID and South Korea did and still does pretty well in containing it.

Ok, hold on here. You just twisted meaning out of my words that doesn't exist.

I said that Opium Wars were important to China. They humiliated China. They weren't actually that important to the rest of Asia, just China. MY point was that China was humiliated by these defeats against Europeans and even by Japan. And plus, as the Portuguese will love to point out to you, influence can be just as powerful as a physical presence. I never said anything about NE Asia, just China. Do not get the two mixed up.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Your views here are essentially the opposite of the views of both white supremacists and black supremacists (who both believe that European domination of the entire world is real) and are equally biased as theirs. The surge of West European colonization almost never resulted in loss of sovereignty, territories or ethnic cleansing in Northeast Asia while its effects everywhere else, even in Turkey, was much stronger. If we compare what happened in China between 1840 and 1945 to the loss of even ethnic Turks and Iranians who themselves were never under colonialism we can easily see that it’s almost nothing. Even compare that to earlier nomadic invasions of China it was still nothing. It’s both absurdly self-humiliating and hypocritical for anyone who is of agricultural NE Asian origins to claim to be a victim of colonialism since European flags almost never flew on our lands except in Hong Kong, Macau, Spanish & Dutch Formosa (which was ended by Koxinga), a few concessions less than 1% the area of China, embassies and consulates. Period. Even the Qing did much better than Ottomans, Qajars, Mughals and Marathas. We the people of agricultural NE Asia were almost entirely immune to European colonialism and in fact modernized and produced a major colonial power (Japan). It takes a high dose of NE Asia-centrism to claim that Opium Wars were very important while total conquest of Indian regimes by East India Company and numerous Indian famines under British Raj are irrelevant.

To be honest I’m also guilty of NE Asia-centrism. To me events that take place there (e.g. China and North Korea existing, covid in Taiwan and South Korea, tech in Japan etc) are way more important than events elsewhere (except in Israel) which I often ignore. Just like Eurocentrists of the both WN and anti-white kinds I attribute a lot of events, both awesome and awful, to actors in NE Asia. China, not Trump, Proud Boyz or BLM, is responsible for COVID and South Korea did and still does pretty well in containing it.

Ok, hold on here. You just twisted meaning out of my words that doesn't exist.

I said that Opium Wars were important to China. They humiliated China. They weren't actually that important to the rest of Asia, just China. MY point was that China was humiliated by these defeats against Europeans and even by Japan. And plus, as the Portuguese will love to point out to you, influence can be just as powerful as a physical presence. I never said anything about NE Asia, just China. Do not get the two mixed up.

Even in Chinese history this was actually nothing lol since China was conquered by Mongols with much worse temporary human and political loss. What’s up about Portugal?

In the long run the net effects of European contact was very positive for NE Asia (including China) and NE Asians. Europeans accidentally caused the region to rapidly modernize and even look outward when in the past isolationism was the norm. Essentially European colonists inadvertently stirred up a huge hornets’ net.

[The Marlborough]

Lol. That’s indeed an interesting and absurd claim. Yes, technically we can consider China a civilization but how good is it?

On the whole, pretty good. It's been one of the bastions of invention and innovation (albeit I do think its role in this is at times overblown).

It is a highly awful one due to the centralized state. Not everything that exists and persists is necessarily awesome.

Centralized states have a pretty good track record, what can I say. Even the UK is a heavily centralized state and has been for centuries.

It is true that ethnic Chinese merchants dominate trade in places such as Thailand..however these places are all outside China. China often prevents heathy trade from normally taking place with its insane policies.

This is a CCP issue and only if one is a rabid free marketer which isn't something popular in much of the West either, even in the Anglosphere. Historically however trade was pretty healthy within China and merchants could obtain a lot of wealth and informal power.

The permanent abolition of China is an absolute necessity.

Nah, but it does need an imperial restoration.

Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire That's true of their overall LPI scores but not their infrastructure scores.
In terms of infrastructure the US has a score of 4.05.
- Germany (4.37)
- Sweden (4.24)
- Austria (4.18)
- Netherlands (4.21)

Denmark (3.96), Finland (4.00), and Belgium (3.98) all rank lower on this metric.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Nah, but it does need an imperial restoration.

I apologise for going off on a tangent, but monarchism isn’t an ideology whose adherents I come across very often outside of NS (compared to other flavours of radical right-wingism, that is), so I hope you will satisfy my curiosity.

What form of monarchy do you believe to be ideal and why do you believe monarchies superior to republics?

Feel free to telegram me on the issue if you think it’s too off-topic for this thread.

[The Marlborough]

Ok, hold on here. You just twisted meaning out of my words that doesn't exist.

I said that Opium Wars were important to China. They humiliated China. They weren't actually that important to the rest of Asia, just China. MY point was that China was humiliated by these defeats against Europeans and even by Japan. And plus, as the Portuguese will love to point out to you, influence can be just as powerful as a physical presence. I never said anything about NE Asia, just China. Do not get the two mixed up.

Even in Chinese history this was actually nothing lol since China was conquered by Mongols with much worse temporary human and political loss. What’s up about Portugal?

In the long run the net effects of European contact was very positive for NE Asia (including China) and NE Asians. Europeans accidentally caused the region to rapidly modernize and even look outward when in the past isolationism was the norm. Essentially European colonists inadvertently stirred up a huge hornets’ net.

Isolationism wasn't the norm until about the 15th and 16th centuries. Even then trading didn't fully stop and the Qing later implemented the Canton system which wasn't all that much different than the British granting monopoly for trade to the EIC. Further, that was just a restriction on imports i.e. protectionism (something the West also does and historically has preferred); Chinese merchants were still allowed to export goods and Chinese goods were rampant in much of SE Asia to the point where it was harming local economies.

[The Marlborough]

Tell that to the Palestinians.

Tell that to descendants of Algerian survivors of French “pacification” campaigns, Serbs & Croats & Bosniaks or Armenians & Azeris fighting over Nagorno-Karabakh. Israel is the most humane power that has ever existed.

Lmao no, it isn't.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Ok, hold on here. You just twisted meaning out of my words that doesn't exist.

I said that Opium Wars were important to China. They humiliated China. They weren't actually that important to the rest of Asia, just China. MY point was that China was humiliated by these defeats against Europeans and even by Japan. And plus, as the Portuguese will love to point out to you, influence can be just as powerful as a physical presence. I never said anything about NE Asia, just China. Do not get the two mixed up.

Even in Chinese history this was actually nothing lol since China was conquered by Mongols with much worse temporary human and political loss.

Now that is a downright unfair comparison. The Mongols and Chinese had been neighbors for centuries by this point, and more importantly: nomads to the north had a historic tradition of raiding and straight up invading China from time to time. The Mongols weren't the first nomads to invade, nor would they be the last. From the perspective of China, this was just something that would occasionally happen throughout their history.

The British and Japanese, meanwhile, were, from the perspective of China, on tiny insignificant islands that couldn't beat them. They weren't like the nomads to the north that had essentially been frightening to every Chinese dynasty that faced them, they were tiny from the perspective of the Qing. And the fact that they couldn't beat them was humiliating.

What’s up about Portugal?

Portugal established a large colonial empire without having to actually conquer territory. Aside from Brazil in South America, most of their colonial empire rested on port cities dotted across the African and Asian coastlines. They used these ports to project power and economically exploit their areas of influence. The same thing happened when China had to concede treaty ports to European powers and Japan. The British in particular economically exploited China by forcing them to buy their opium, and the result was that wealth flowed out of China, not in. European missionaries also inadvertently destabilized China by introducing Christianity, leading to a series of bloody rebellions and uprisings that only further weakened the Qing and paved the way for their eventual downfall. The devastation from these wars combined with the flooding of the Yellow River was so catastrophic that it left millions to starve and/or flee China.

In the long run the net effects of European contact was very positive for NE Asia (including China) and NE Asians. Europeans accidentally caused the region to rapidly modernize and even look outward when in the past isolationism was the norm. Essentially European colonists inadvertently stirred up a huge hornets’ net.

Obviously that's not true because China refused to modernize and it ended in the overthrow of the Qing.

So yeah, China in all fairness was the world's punching bag before it's democratic and nationalist revolution.

Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire That's true of their overall LPI scores but not their infrastructure scores.
In terms of infrastructure the US has a score of 4.05.
- Germany (4.37)
- Sweden (4.24)
- Austria (4.18)
- Netherlands (4.21)

Denmark (3.96), Finland (4.00), and Belgium (3.98) all rank lower on this metric.

Ah, I see. That is how you got 4...

...now back to arguing with Nekostan. Abolishing China is an absurd idea.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Even in Chinese history this was actually nothing lol since China was conquered by Mongols with much worse temporary human and political loss. What’s up about Portugal?

In the long run the net effects of European contact was very positive for NE Asia (including China) and NE Asians. Europeans accidentally caused the region to rapidly modernize and even look outward when in the past isolationism was the norm. Essentially European colonists inadvertently stirred up a huge hornets’ net.

Isolationism wasn't the norm until about the 15th and 16th centuries. Even then trading didn't fully stop and the Qing later implemented the Canton system which wasn't all that much different than the British granting monopoly for trade to the EIC. Further, that was just a restriction on imports i.e. protectionism (something the West also does and historically has preferred); Chinese merchants were still allowed to export goods and Chinese goods were rampant in much of SE Asia to the point where it was harming local economies.

Indeed. Nekostan needs to understand that the problem with China is not its existence, but rather its government.

[Yuzu China]

What entity that should be abolished? The US is ok enough.

China of course.

Your rather extremist attitudes such as being a diehard defender of...Israel ("Israel is the most humane power that has ever existed" or any arrogant claim would never be spoken by Chinese, this attitude is the antithesis of who we are), complete lack of knowledge re: Chinese history much less rationale for historical policies any K-12 chinese should know, especially when lumping together... Lebanese, of all people, make me sincerely doubt you.(I have had to correct your bad history several times already.) The whole abolishing China thing is far more extremist than even the most loyalist DPP fans. There is not a city in China, ROC or whatever where people are like this.

Unless you mean Hong Kong? But I've never met Hong Kongnese who don't know basic K-12 history taught in Chinese schools.

Just like glorious hong kong (exact word for word quote) stating earlier: "we southerners are arguably more Chinese and more "pure-blooded."

No one in China is interested in blood purity, that is bizarre.

[Yuzu China]

Israel is a PRC'ian ally in all but name. PRC is in fact their second plan should America ever dump them.

It does not affect the nature of either Israel or China. Israel is still the safe haven for the Jewish people and China is still the unsafe anti-haven for the Chinese people. When Jewish people are threatened elsewhere they flee into Israel. When Chinese people are threatened by China we flee from China.

Continue explaining away why overseas Chinese and PRC citizens, even Hong Kongese chose to return home rather than stay in covid ridden USA, the covid leader. Or why anyone'd tolerate such incompetence.

SMCP: https://www.asianewsday.com/why-an-amer ... -outbreak/

This mother=Stanford University law school/Harvard graduate, Former Presidential Senior Advisor (Obama)/Speechwriter (Bill/Hillary Clinton) June Shih is director of University Communications for NYU Shanghai (USA's top ranked college), where she oversees all public affairs, digital communications, and marketing activities. https://shanghai.nyu.edu/leadership/june-shih

[SKM]

China of course.

Your rather extremist attitudes such as being a diehard defender of...Israel ("Israel is the most humane power that has ever existed" or any arrogant claim would never be spoken by Chinese, this attitude is the antithesis of who we are), complete lack of knowledge re: Chinese history much less rationale for historical policies any K-12 chinese should know, especially when lumping together... Lebanese, of all people, make me sincerely doubt you.(I have had to correct your bad history several times already.) The whole abolishing China thing is far more extremist than even the most loyalist DPP fans. There is not a city in China, ROC or whatever where people are like this.

Bullshit. Xi and all the others in that damn communist party are arrogant, stuck-up pigs. They have the gall to tell Australia to get its shit together for pressing for a much-needed enquiry into the origins of the coronavirus, then when Australia goes to the WTO for China blocking Australian Beef, Wine, and Barley they dare to accuse us of ‘playing the victim’, which we very much fucking are! Mind you, all while there has been NO government contact between Australia and China, although we have contacted them on many occasions? That’s just fucking bullying.
The only solution is to fucking block all trade with that fascist dystopia, I’m very surprised they haven’t considered that they’re completely dependent of Australian coal and iron! They’ll come back crying, and we should tell them to fuck themselves.

[Yuzu China]

Your rather extremist attitudes such as being a diehard defender of...Israel ("Israel is the most humane power that has ever existed" or any arrogant claim would never be spoken by Chinese, this attitude is the antithesis of who we are), complete lack of knowledge re: Chinese history much less rationale for historical policies any K-12 chinese should know, especially when lumping together... Lebanese, of all people, make me sincerely doubt you.(I have had to correct your bad history several times already.) The whole abolishing China thing is far more extremist than even the most loyalist DPP fans. There is not a city in China, ROC or whatever where people are like this.

Bullshit. Xi and all the others in that damn communist party are arrogant, stuck-up pigs. They have the gall to tell Australia to get its shit together for pressing for a much-needed inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus, then when Australia goes to the WTO for China blocking Australian Beef, Wine, and Barley they dare to accuse us of ‘playing the victim’, which we very much fucking are! Mind you, all while there has been NO government contact between Australia and China, although we have contacted them on many occasions? That’s just fucking bullying.
The only solution is to fucking block all trade with that fascist dystopia, I’m very surprised they haven’t considered that they’re completely dependent of Australian coal and iron! They’ll come back crying, and we should tell them to fuck themselves.

That has not happened at all. And it's not like China needs Australia either despite Australia's bad attitude, see: https://www.quora.com/Do-China-and-Aust ... asmussen-9 You are the "bully" you claim China is, per your exact words.

And thank you for your kind, respectful comments up there. You have thus been reported. No Chinese would make inappropriate statements like yours anyways.

[Giovenith]

Your rather extremist attitudes such as being a diehard defender of...Israel ("Israel is the most humane power that has ever existed" or any arrogant claim would never be spoken by Chinese, this attitude is the antithesis of who we are), complete lack of knowledge re: Chinese history much less rationale for historical policies any K-12 chinese should know, especially when lumping together... Lebanese, of all people, make me sincerely doubt you.(I have had to correct your bad history several times already.) The whole abolishing China thing is far more extremist than even the most loyalist DPP fans. There is not a city in China, ROC or whatever where people are like this.

Bullshit. Xi and all the others in that damn communist party are arrogant, stuck-up pigs. They have the gall to tell Australia to get its shit together for pressing for a much-needed enquiry into the origins of the coronavirus, then when Australia goes to the WTO for China blocking Australian Beef, Wine, and Barley they dare to accuse us of ‘playing the victim’, which we very much fucking are! Mind you, all while there has been NO government contact between Australia and China, although we have contacted them on many occasions? That’s just fucking bullying.
The only solution is to fucking block all trade with that fascist dystopia, I’m very surprised they haven’t considered that they’re completely dependent of Australian coal and iron! They’ll come back crying, and we should tell them to fuck themselves.

Please calm down.