The Death Penalty: Justified or Immoral?

[Adamede]

If the guilt of the person to be executed was proven 100% and there was no way he could be innocent (and depending on the severity of the crime) I’d be all for executing them, because there are simply some people on this earth who do not deserve to live and are unlikely to ever reform and be functional members of society, and we’d be better off without them.

However the real world doesn’t work that way. We’ll never be 100% sure that some one committed any crime, let alone one worth executing them for. And so long as there’s any chance whatsoever that you’re executing an innocent person there is no justification for the death penalty.

A state able to kill whoever it wants is far more dangerous than even the worst serial killer.

And with this in mind the prison system should be reformed in the US. Prisons should be about keeping criminals away from society, either to reform those who can be reformed or just keeping to die who can’t away from potential victims. It shouldn’t be a fucking hell on earth for the inmates, or a source of slave labor.

For many people it is justified as a last resort because there just hasn't ever been any punishment devised that is worse than death. Life imprisonment includes the possibility (however remote) that the imprisoned person escapes.

Sounds like a bullshit excuse to me. Might as well just kill suspected criminals in the streets then, or make every crime punishable by execution.

[The Emerald Legion]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

[Sanghyeok]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

I agree with your first statement, but the solution is abolishment of prisons, not using the death penalty for offenses.

[Necroghastia]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

Life is cruel. Cyanide flavor-aid for all!

[The Emerald Legion]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

Life is cruel. Cyanide flavor-aid for all!

No, for most people there are solutions to their issues that don't involve just chucking them in a box and forgetting they exist, or worse treating them like some separate species as we do. Imprisonment acts as a bypass, it allows us to be unimaginably cruel and careless solely because we don't have to feel bad about it if we're wrong because 'we can always let them out later right?'

And in the end, if they truly are unable to peacefully coexist with the people around them, a prison sentence is just a way to feel less guilty about killing them.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

All Lives Matter.

Yet the concept of lives mattering would not exist in the absence of its polar opposite, namely death.

As a certain New Age philosopher once said before I converted to atheism, In the Absence of That Which You Are Not, That Which You Are is Not. One cannot truly experience light in the absence of darkness even if the entire universe is bathed in light. One cannot experience "hot" in the absence of "cold". One cannot experience Being in the absence of Not Being. One cannot truly experience, value, and appreciate life in all its wonder in the absence of death.

It is the fleeting nature of life and the permanence and inevitability of death that gives life value in the first place. To spare the life of a mass murderer or genocidal tyrant would be to send the message that the lives of his victims did not matter. It would cheapen the value of life. The murderer's execution would swiftly bring his own life's value into sharp focus and remind the world that All Lives Matter and no life is more equal than any other's.

The death penalty can thus be considered a necessary evil from a purely moral and philosophical standpoint. If applied justly and correctly, it serves to uphold, rather than diminish, the sanctity of human life, for if the condemned criminal's life didn't matter, what would be the point of executing him in the first place? Don't All Lives Matter?

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Nothing about what you have just said made any sense.

[Ifreann]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

Abolish or at least reform prisons to make them more about rehabilitation, not to commit people to servitude and slavery. The death penalty is the state's way of highlighting that only it can murder and only it can decide on one's mortality.

[Saint Yosx]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

Abolish or at least reform prisons to make them more about rehabilitation, not to commit people to servitude and slavery. The death penalty is the state's way of highlighting that only it can murder and only it can decide on one's mortality.

Agreed. No one no matter how terrible they may seem should be locked up for life. And even if they are technically “locked up for life” at least give them opportunities to access the outside world. Like virtual reality and things like that could help locked up for life prisoners still help society

[The Emerald Legion]

The use of imprisonment as a punishment is fundamentally immoral. Therefor, the use of the death penalty is moral as it spares someone from being imprisoned.

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

How so? The only alternative to the death penalty is imprisonment.

[Tyrassueb]

I'm against it for a huge number of reasons. I don't think it's ever justified or ever moral, even if we agree that some people are just terrible and horrible human beings. Locking them up for life is far more economical and sane than running the risk of them being killed and turning out to be innocent.

[Ifreann]

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

How so? The only alternative to the death penalty is imprisonment.

No it isn't.

[The Emerald Legion]

How so? The only alternative to the death penalty is imprisonment.

No it isn't.

How do you separate someone from society in perpetuity without either restricting their movements or killing them?

[Ifreann]

No it isn't.

How do you separate someone from society in perpetuity without either restricting their movements or killing them?

That's easy. Don't.

[Esternial]

If the guilt of the person to be executed was proven 100% and there was no way he could be innocent (and depending on the severity of the crime) I’d be all for executing them, because there are simply some people on this earth who do not deserve to live and are unlikely to ever reform and be functional members of society, and we’d be better off without them.

However the real world doesn’t work that way. We’ll never be 100% sure that some one committed any crime, let alone one worth executing them for. And so long as there’s any chance whatsoever that you’re executing an innocent person there is no justification for the death penalty.

A state able to kill whoever it wants is far more dangerous than even the worst serial killer.

And with this in mind the prison system should be reformed in the US. Prisons should be about keeping criminals away from society, either to reform those who can be reformed or just keeping to die who can’t away from potential victims. It shouldn’t be a fucking hell on earth for the inmates, or a source of slave labor.

For many people it is justified as a last resort because there just hasn't ever been any punishment devised that is worse than death. Life imprisonment includes the possibility (however remote) that the imprisoned person escapes.

Sounds like a bullshit excuse to me. Might as well just kill suspected criminals in the streets then, or make every crime punishable by execution.

Completely agree, well-argued post there.

[The Emerald Legion]

How do you separate someone from society in perpetuity without either restricting their movements or killing them?

That's easy. Don't.

So your solution is to just do nothing about serial killers then.

[Ifreann]

That's easy. Don't.

So your solution is to just do nothing about serial killers then.

Your solution is to serially kill people and call it mercy.

[The Emerald Legion]

So your solution is to just do nothing about serial killers then.

Your solution is to serially kill people and call it mercy.

Because to be frank it is. The idea of a life sentence is repugnant.

[Ifreann]

Your solution is to serially kill people and call it mercy.

Because to be frank it is. The idea of a life sentence is repugnant.

Killing people isn't exactly a fun time.

[Necroghastia]

Your solution is to serially kill people and call it mercy.

Because to be frank it is. The idea of a life sentence is repugnant.

Less repugnant than killing people, especially if they end up being innocent.

[The Emerald Legion]

Because to be frank it is. The idea of a life sentence is repugnant.

Less repugnant than killing people, especially if they end up being innocent.

Not really. For this very reason.

If you can't without a doubt in the world prove someone is guilty, they are innocent. The perceived ability to reverse course actually damages our ability to get it right to begin with.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

I think rotting in prison till you die drives the point better if you were a reprehensible person than being murdered by the state. Even then, reform is needed to ensure that even the most heinous of criminals can be rehabilitated.

[Adamede]

I think rotting in prison till you die drives the point better if you were a reprehensible person than being murdered by the state. Even then, reform is needed to ensure that even the most heinous of criminals can be rehabilitated.

I don’t think that’s possible for everyone even with the best prison system on the planet.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Not even Ted Bundy, Dennis Rader, Andrei Chikatilo, Ed Gein? And what Hermann Goring or other Nazi figureheads?

Well Ted Bundy actually got into his crimes after being exposed to adult content and had thoughts of torturing women. I feel that its a mental problem issue and resorting to killing these people instead of treating them is quite terrible.

So which pity him because he had thoughts of torturing women. Ted Bundy was vermin and even the Judge calling the execution a "waste of life" is appalling. It was the appropriate spending of that sub-set of human life