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The Death Penalty: Justified or Immoral?

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Is the Death Penalty justified?

Yes
31
42%
No
42
58%
 
Total votes : 73

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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Turelisa- » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 pm

Agarntrop wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:


There is an epidemic of fatal stabbings here in the UK.

You support stoning rebellious children?


No. I've already said I support the death penalty for murder. I also think it appropriate for adult recidivists whose convictions are for serious crimes and demonstrate clearly a pattern of severe social maladjustment. (The Word 'son' in the quote means figuratively the offspring of society)
Last edited by Turelisa- on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FutureAmerica
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Founded: May 20, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FutureAmerica » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:58 pm

Saint Yosx wrote:
FutureAmerica wrote:
A lifetime of imprisonment is not barbarism? All these decisions are immoral.



Maybe instead of locking them up it can be kind of like a rehab center, where instead of treating you like your a evil animal they treat you like a patient, as I do believe Crime is a disease and its vectors are poor and unfournate people most of the time. Maybe instead of concrete floors and a small cell, we can give them rooms similar to an apartment, and give them more freedom. Maybe incorporate natural surroundings and allow for outdoor activity?


This is how German prisons are.

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Punished UMN
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Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:02 pm

FutureAmerica wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
Lobotomy is a pseudoscientific barbarism. I think a murderer would rather choose death than submit to an existence of imbecility.


A lifetime of imprisonment is not barbarism? All these decisions are immoral.

I would rather be a prisoner in a cell than in my own mind.
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FutureAmerica
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Founded: May 20, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FutureAmerica » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:03 pm

I like the idea of a prison colony. Australia has turned into a modern successful nation despite the fact that many of its citizens are descendants of violent criminals.

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FutureAmerica
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Founded: May 20, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FutureAmerica » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:08 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
FutureAmerica wrote:
A lifetime of imprisonment is not barbarism? All these decisions are immoral.

I would rather be a prisoner in a cell than in my own mind.


After a few months of solitary, you are a prisoner in your own mind. The most violent criminals are in solitary for life with a one hour break daily. This is in US prisons.

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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Turelisa- » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:10 pm

Saint Yosx wrote:
FutureAmerica wrote:
A lifetime of imprisonment is not barbarism? All these decisions are immoral.



Maybe instead of locking them up it can be kind of like a rehab center, where instead of treating you like your a evil animal they treat you like a patient, as I do believe Crime is a disease and its vectors are poor and unfournate people most of the time. Maybe instead of concrete floors and a small cell, we can give them rooms similar to an apartment, and give them more freedom. Maybe incorporate natural surroundings and allow for outdoor activity?


This has been the UK penal system for the past fifty-six years, and it hasn't proven its worth yet.
Under a system where the death penalty is used, the recidivism rate among murderers is always zero.
Last edited by Turelisa- on Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Punished UMN
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Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:10 pm

FutureAmerica wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:I would rather be a prisoner in a cell than in my own mind.


After a few months of solitary, you are a prisoner in your own mind. The most violent criminals are in solitary for life with a one hour break daily. This is in US prisons.

We should not have that practice either. Banned surgical procedures are not the solution to this. It would be more humane to shoot prisoners than to lobotomize them, and I don't say that lightly.
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Saint Yosx
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Yosx » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:14 pm

Turelisa- wrote:
Saint Yosx wrote:

Maybe instead of locking them up it can be kind of like a rehab center, where instead of treating you like your a evil animal they treat you like a patient, as I do believe Crime is a disease and its vectors are poor and unfournate people most of the time. Maybe instead of concrete floors and a small cell, we can give them rooms similar to an apartment, and give them more freedom. Maybe incorporate natural surroundings and allow for outdoor activity?


This has been the UK penal system for the past fifty-six years, and it hasn't proven its worth yet.
Under a system where the death penalty is used, the recidivism rate among murderers is always zero.


So you support the death penalty I'm assuming?

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:19 pm

Well, it’s very bad at its job
So perhaps we should not do it
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FutureAmerica
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Founded: May 20, 2014
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Postby FutureAmerica » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:20 pm

Turelisa- wrote:
FutureAmerica wrote:Instead of the death penalty, violent criminals and rapists should be lobotomized for their crimes. They can then be safely released back into society. The current system is immoral.


Lobotomy is a pseudoscientific barbarism. I think a murderer would rather choose death than submit to an existence of imbecility.


Many violent criminals are already living an existence of imbecility.

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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Turelisa- » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:24 pm

FutureAmerica wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
Lobotomy is a pseudoscientific barbarism. I think a murderer would rather choose death than submit to an existence of imbecility.


Many violent criminals are already living an existence of imbecility.


Facetious sophistry isn't going to get you anywhere.
Last edited by Turelisa- on Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Saint Yosx
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Postby Saint Yosx » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:35 pm

I think all people can redeem themselves whether in the law and spiritually. I think that god can save anyone and the whole idea of "some people are not savable idea" is flawed to me. Saying that some people cannot change or be saved is a limit to his power. Moving back to the topic I think that using death as a punishment means that society could not do anything more to help get justice and death was the only way, is seriously flawed.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:23 pm

The state should never have the right to decide life or death of it's people outside of war.
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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:29 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:The state should never have the right to decide life or death of it's people outside of war.

The state is literally the entity that has power over the ability to kill people.
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The Giant Space Wyrm
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Founded: Sep 19, 2020
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Postby The Giant Space Wyrm » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:49 pm

Barring the Extreme Cases of War Crimes perpetrated by the likes of the Nazis, Hitler or Joseph Stalin and his Soviet Union, the Death Penalty is immoral and we always run the risk of getting the wrong person, which here in the US has happened more than once.

More than once is one too many.
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Calimama
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Postby Calimama » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:14 pm

Child molesters, serial killers and sexual predators are cases that I feel as though the death penalty is somewhat justified, but only if they are proven without a doubt to be as heinous as the charges against them, otherwise I am against it.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:33 pm

I think it’s only legitimate to kill in self-defense, whether you’re talking about individuals or states, and even in the case of the worst sexual predators and serial killers, I think it’s hard to make the case that killing them is an act of self-defense by the state. The only case I can think of where it’d be legitimate would be if someone were some sort of terrorist, insurgent, or traitor— someone trying to destroy or bring down the state, who would conceivably threaten the entire society even if they were locked away for a time. This goes for enemy soldiers in wartime too, and it’s why I consider wartime killing of soldiers distinct from just murdering people. Otherwise, I don’t think states should be in the business of killing their people.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:35 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:The state should never have the right to decide life or death of it's people outside of war.

The state is literally the entity that has power over the ability to kill people.

Herp didn’t say it wasn’t, they just said the ideal state would be one that chooses not to exercise that power outside of wartime. It wouldn’t preclude the continuation of its monopoly on violence.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:20 am

Justified, but only for the most gruesome crimes. Nazis, Pol Pot, and other genocidal dictators and groups should absolutely be hanged on the gallows.
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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:03 am

In short? Fuck no, it isn't justified in any way.

In a longer explanation? I think this sums up my opinion on the subject.
Last edited by -Astoria- on Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Neanderthaland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:26 am

The gruesomeness of the crime really should be a non-issue here. And it's foolish that people assume life-imprisonment is less severe a punishment than death. Personally I think I'd probably rather die, given a choice of the two.

The only reason the death penalty should be reserved, is for rare cases where a person remains a threat to society despite being incarcerated. This almost never comes up, but something like a deposed dictator who remains a symbol of their political movement even while in prison, or a mafia boss that is able to subvert the system and carry out criminal activity from within prison, those are cases where the death penalty should be implemented.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:59 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Except - shocker! - eliminating the death penalty would make that number even smaller!


Not in any relevant way. Less than 50 people are executed per year in the US.

Ifreann wrote:People who are wrongly imprisoned can be freed. People who are wrongly fined can have their money returned. People wrongly executed are dead forever.


Man you should look into stories who are freed after decades of wrongful imprisonment. It's not exactly a mercy.

If you want to sell me on the carceral punitive system being bad then you're preaching to the choir. My point is that people wrongly executed remain dead forever, we cannot ever end their punishment, we cannot even attempt to undo the harm done to them or do anything to right the wrong of executing them. This is very obviously different from forms of punishment where the convicted person remains alive. So the argument that all systems lead to people being harmed therefore who cares about the people we will wrongly execute is nonsense.

And I have to ask again, what is even your problem with the people who you say deserve to die? You're advocating for a system that will kill innocent people and you don't care, you've decided that those people and their lives don't matter, so what crimes are people committing to deserve death if operating such a system is remotely acceptable?
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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:32 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Saint Yosx wrote:

Maybe instead of locking them up it can be kind of like a rehab center, where instead of treating you like your a evil animal they treat you like a patient, as I do believe Crime is a disease and its vectors are poor and unfournate people most of the time. Maybe instead of concrete floors and a small cell, we can give them rooms similar to an apartment, and give them more freedom. Maybe incorporate natural surroundings and allow for outdoor activity?


This has been the UK penal system for the past fifty-six years, and it hasn't proven its worth yet.
Under a system where the death penalty is used, the recidivism rate among murderers is always zero.


This is simply a lie. That's just not what the UK system is, and never has been. If you look at countries where that's actually the case, you notice consistently lower crime rates.
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Pan Evropa
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby Pan Evropa » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:08 pm

Eh. I lean towards it being bad but I won't shed tears for certain people who are executed. In some cases it is better to silence people (like traitors).
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:12 pm

For many people it is justified as a last resort because there just hasn't ever been any punishment devised that is worse than death. Life imprisonment includes the possibility (however remote) that the imprisoned person escapes.

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