PR for Beginners(A Dutch Election Thread)

[Shrillland]

They haven't polled to win any seats since August.

eh true. Henk Krols political journey is confusing at best. He gets elected as leader of 50PLUS, elected to HoR, leaves party after a while and forms Party for the Future with a PvdD defector. Leaves that after a while for some reason to form the Henk Krol List. I don't see the reason for any of that .

He just doesn't play well with others, it happens.

[The Alma Mater]

I agree with many parts of the Christian Union platform, but I have serious concerns with their Euroscepticism and their position on LGBT issues. Isn't CDA right-wing and pro-European, though?

Same, I'd probably vote CU but they're too eurosceptic.

I quite like the environmentalism of the CU as well. But I simply cannot take them seriously anymore after they seriously claimed metal music was to blame for terrorist attacks like those of Breivik.

[Pan Evropa]

Same, I'd probably vote CU but they're too eurosceptic.

I quite like the environmentalism of the CU as well. But I simply cannot take them seriously anymore after they seriously claimed metal music was to blame for terrorist attacks like those of Breivik.

ok i would vote for them just because reading that made me laugh lol

[Major-Tom]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke, and the Green Left seems to mirror a lot of Green parties that have shifted their focus towards young professionals and away from avowed and fervent left-wingers. If I were Dutch, I guess I'd vote Green Left. The rise of both the PVV and DENK, as always, is a concern, but as the VVD coalition is bound to win again, I don't imagine it'll be that bad. Rutte seems averagely competent.

[Arisyan]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke, and the Green Left seems to mirror a lot of Green parties that have shifted their focus towards young professionals and away from avowed and fervent left-wingers. If I were Dutch, I guess I'd vote Green Left. The rise of both the PVV and DENK, as always, is a concern, but as the VVD coalition is bound to win again, I don't imagine it'll be that bad. Rutte seems averagely competent.

Everything you just said seems true. Looking at the polls, it looks like almost no party change in seats is gonna happen whatsoever, or at least something significant. The major problem to coalitions is if a majority can't be achieved without the PV or FvD. Oh, and the Labour Party used to be taken seriously but then 2017 happened. And they're pretty much identical to the Socialist Party anyhow.

[Shrillland]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke, and the Green Left seems to mirror a lot of Green parties that have shifted their focus towards young professionals and away from avowed and fervent left-wingers. If I were Dutch, I guess I'd vote Green Left. The rise of both the PVV and DENK, as always, is a concern, but as the VVD coalition is bound to win again, I don't imagine it'll be that bad. Rutte seems averagely competent.

Everything you just said seems true. Looking at the polls, it looks like almost no party change in seats is gonna happen whatsoever, or at least something significant. The major problem to coalitions is if a majority can't be achieved without the PV or FvD. Oh, and the Labour Party used to be taken seriously but then 2017 happened. And they're pretty much identical to the Socialist Party anyhow.

I don't think that'll be an issue. The current coalition can stay in, but they'll just add Labour to get over the top.

[Baltenstein]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke

Shouldn't that be "has become a joke"? After all, the death of SocDem parties throughout Western Europe seems to be pretty permanent.

[Shrillland]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke

Shouldn't that be "has become a joke"? After all, the death of SocDem parties throughout Western Europe seems to be pretty permanent.

Well, they are up in the polls taking votes from GL and the Socialists at the moment.

[Pan Evropa]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke, and the Green Left seems to mirror a lot of Green parties that have shifted their focus towards young professionals and away from avowed and fervent left-wingers. If I were Dutch, I guess I'd vote Green Left. The rise of both the PVV and DENK, as always, is a concern, but as the VVD coalition is bound to win again, I don't imagine it'll be that bad. Rutte seems averagely competent.

FvD fall has been because of their leader, Thierry Baudet. His Covid conspiracies and the anti-semitism controversy in the FvD's youth wing has just cemented their fall.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke, and the Green Left seems to mirror a lot of Green parties that have shifted their focus towards young professionals and away from avowed and fervent left-wingers. If I were Dutch, I guess I'd vote Green Left. The rise of both the PVV and DENK, as always, is a concern, but as the VVD coalition is bound to win again, I don't imagine it'll be that bad. Rutte seems averagely competent.

FvD fall has been because of their leader, Thierry Baudet. His Covid conspiracies and the anti-semitism controversy in the FvD's youth wing has just cemented their fall.

yeah Ja21 will just add insult to injury and without Thierry as their leader I can't see them recovering. Hey, im not complaining!

[Baltenstein]

It seems that broad coalitions are a staple of Dutch politics, and the general moderate consensus there is never too shaken up, or at least hasn't been through the last several administrations. The VVD, for better or worse, seems likely to win yet another election and continue governing with the support of centrist and centre-right parties.

What interests me is how cyclical support is in the Netherlands. Party support before elections seems to fluctuate wildly, with small bases of people making the difference. Even more interesting to me is the FVDs dramatic fall in support to the benefit of Wilders yet again. I'd be curious to see what Dutch folks make of that and why it happened.

Anyways, I've seen the platforms, the VVD, CDA and D66 are all strikingly similar in their actions, the Labour Party there is still a joke, and the Green Left seems to mirror a lot of Green parties that have shifted their focus towards young professionals and away from avowed and fervent left-wingers. If I were Dutch, I guess I'd vote Green Left. The rise of both the PVV and DENK, as always, is a concern, but as the VVD coalition is bound to win again, I don't imagine it'll be that bad. Rutte seems averagely competent.

FvD fall has been because of their leader, Thierry Baudet. His Covid conspiracies and the anti-semitism controversy in the FvD's youth wing has just cemented their fall.

The lesson here being that he went Full Nazi. Never go Full Nazi, kids.

[Pan Evropa]

The lesson here being that he went Full Nazi. Never go Full Nazi, kids.

Well, from what I read the Nazi stuff wasn't him. It was the youth wing but they just dealt with it badly.

yeah Ja21 will just add insult to injury and without Thierry as their leader I can't see them recovering. Hey, im not complaining!

They're probably going to win 2 or 3 seats each so technically they'll still be growing.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

The lesson here being that he went Full Nazi. Never go Full Nazi, kids.

Well, from what I read the Nazi stuff wasn't him. It was the youth wing but they just dealt with it badly.

yeah Ja21 will just add insult to injury and without Thierry as their leader I can't see them recovering. Hey, im not complaining!

They're probably going to win 2 or 3 seats each so technically they'll still be growing.

Yes true. He himself didn't participate in the anti-semitism, but he just didn't condone it and didn't really do a whole lot. Oh, and there was a problem with some far-right terrorists too. Then the party split (Henk Otten Group in the Senate and Ja21 in the EU Parliament) and it just went downhill from there. he resigned, (though he's still chairperson) and the party will most likely not recover. but yet again, that's one less far-right party you have to worry about getting in power.

[Juristonia]

I pretty much grew up with and in the Socialist Party, but I'm genuinely doubting if I'm voting for them this time around.
They've just been a shell of the former selves lately.
Leaning towards the animal party.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

I pretty much grew up with and in the Socialist Party, but I'm genuinely doubting if I'm voting for them this time around.
They've just been a shell of the former selves lately.
Leaning towards the animal party.

True they have become more moderate as time has gone on, but if not the socialists id recommend a vote for the GreenLeft. Pretty similar but have a higher chance of getting in government. Party for the Animals is nice and all but they've literally stated that their goal is not to enter government

[Nova Bromelia]

I am going to vote "Other", and "Other", in my case, means Volt.

Reason for that is that two of the most important issues in the Netherlands, the developing climate- and ecological crisis, and the refugee/immigration crisis, are also two of the most important issues in Europe, and either simply cannot be solved by any one individual country. We really need each other here. The problem is, our shared platform is the European Union, which is an opaque moloch of a construct, where corporate lobbyists often have more power than politicians.

So, we need to address that, and if we really want to get anything done, we need a real political meshwork. For which I propose a Pan-European party with representation in the chambers of all EU countries. Which would be Volt. In several countries, Volt is already present, and I really hope that NL can be next on that list. Volt would not be yet another splinter party, but would really bring added value!

Also, Volt has a really darn good, comprehensive, well thought-out election program, which I would encourage all Dutchies to read!

{Edit : might as well put a link here as well ;-) https://voltnederland.org/politieke-standpunten-partij }

[Pan Evropa]

I am going to vote "Other", and "Other", in my case, means Volt.

Reason for that is that two of the most important issues in the Netherlands, the developing climate- and ecological crisis, and the refugee/immigration crisis, are also two of the most important issues in Europe, and either simply cannot be solved by any one individual country. We really need each other here. The problem is, our shared platform is the European Union, which is an opaque moloch of a construct, where corporate lobbyists often have more power than politicians.

So, we need to address that, and if we really want to get anything done, we need a real political meshwork. For which I propose a Pan-European party with representation in the chambers of all EU countries. Which would be Volt. In several countries, Volt is already present, and I really hope that NL can be next on that list. Volt would not be yet another splinter party, but would really bring added value!

Also, Volt has a really darn good, comprehensive, well thought-out election program, which I would encourage all Dutchies to read!

{Edit : might as well put a link here as well ;-) https://voltnederland.org/politieke-standpunten-partij }

Volt is just a vehicle for upper-middle class liberals to virtue signal. They're a joke. Even as a devoted federalist I'd rather vote for eurosceptics before Volt.

[The Blaatschapen]

I am going to vote "Other", and "Other", in my case, means Volt.

Reason for that is that two of the most important issues in the Netherlands, the developing climate- and ecological crisis, and the refugee/immigration crisis, are also two of the most important issues in Europe, and either simply cannot be solved by any one individual country. We really need each other here. The problem is, our shared platform is the European Union, which is an opaque moloch of a construct, where corporate lobbyists often have more power than politicians.

So, we need to address that, and if we really want to get anything done, we need a real political meshwork. For which I propose a Pan-European party with representation in the chambers of all EU countries. Which would be Volt. In several countries, Volt is already present, and I really hope that NL can be next on that list. Volt would not be yet another splinter party, but would really bring added value!

Also, Volt has a really darn good, comprehensive, well thought-out election program, which I would encourage all Dutchies to read!

{Edit : might as well put a link here as well ;-) https://voltnederland.org/politieke-standpunten-partij }

Volt is just a vehicle for upper-middle class liberals to virtue signal. They're a joke. Even as a devoted federalist I'd rather vote for eurosceptics before Volt.

Volt votes can just as well go to D66. More effective. And Sigrid Kaag is a very capable person. Not sure if she can sell to the people, but very capable inside the political world.

[The Alma Mater]

I quite like the environmentalism of the CU as well. But I simply cannot take them seriously anymore after they seriously claimed metal music was to blame for terrorist attacks like those of Breivik.

ok i would vote for them just because reading that made me laugh lol

You do realise that they also want free contraceptives for all ?
Because they believe that is the best way to prevent abortion. Which they ofc. oppose.

[Juristonia]

I pretty much grew up with and in the Socialist Party, but I'm genuinely doubting if I'm voting for them this time around.
They've just been a shell of the former selves lately.
Leaning towards the animal party.

True they have become more moderate as time has gone on, but if not the socialists id recommend a vote for the GreenLeft. Pretty similar but have a higher chance of getting in government. Party for the Animals is nice and all but they've literally stated that their goal is not to enter government

I don't really feel like they've gotten that much more moderate, really.
If anything, I feel like they're pretty much the same exact party they were in the 80s.
I'm not really hearing anything new, which is mildly alarming because we're over 30 years in to the future now.

GL will never get my vote if only because of how they helped fuck over students with the shitty loan plan. I know they slapped a shiny progressive coat of paint on with Klaver, but it's still the same shitty party.
PvdD might not be likely to become a huge player anytime soon, but they are very close to me, ideologically, which I consider important.
If we were stuck with a two party system, I might vote strategically, but luckily, I don't really have to.

[Nova Bromelia]

Volt votes can just as well go to D66. More effective. And Sigrid Kaag is a very capable person. Not sure if she can sell to the people, but very capable inside the political world.

Sigrid Kaag is very capable, I do agree there, I'd even say that in general, no party has gathered more talent and more brainpower than D66. But I very much disagree with her approach to human rights. D66 is losing a lot of members over that, me among them. What I see happening (and this is even in Sigrid Kaag's current portfolio as a secretary, so, expressedly happening on her watch!) that, in the face of human tragedy in the camps in Greece, the Netherlands consistently fail to keep even basic promises. When I became a member, way back when, the political stance of D66 was strongly influenced by a progressive humanist wing within the party. After Boris van der Ham left the political arena, I saw that wing deteriorate, and with Pia Dijkstra retiring... I do not even really think that it has any significance left. I do not really feel heard nowadays, and no longer recognize myself in D66, I mostly see very clever, very technocratic, very neoliberal legislators.

I do recognize myself in Volt though. While D66 refused to even listen to their own members, Volt actively advocated for humane and just treatment for refugees, and initiated a big manifestation in Amsterdam, where even the chairwoman of the Young Democrats denounced the attitude of her own party. Volt is not shy about being progressive, about being humanist, and about being pan-European. And to me, that really gives them added value. Even if nothing else were to come of their bid (I genuinely believe that one seat should be possible though!), I hope that at least they can cause D66 to panic just a little bit.

[Pan Evropa]

Nope. If Volt had their way then they'd just turn all of Greece into a refugee camp... they don't see the EU as a political vehicle for a civilisation with indigenous peoples inhabiting it and wanting to prosper, they see it as a vehicle for NGOs to virtue signal. Volt are enemies of Europe. I would agree that D66 is a better vote for any progressive/liberal Europeanists.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Had I been a Netherlander I’d probably vote GL. Left, liberal, environmentalist. Those are my three check-boxes right there. Although Dutch environmentalism, like environmentalism in many other countries, seem to be too driven by sentimentality and not driven enough by a critical examination of the facts involved.

Caveat, all I know about Dutch politics comes from binge-watching Zondag met Lubach. So take my opinions with a grain of salt.

[Nova Bromelia]

Nope. If Volt had their way then they'd just turn all of Greece into a refugee camp... they don't see the EU as a political vehicle for a civilisation with indigenous peoples inhabiting it and wanting to prosper, they see it as a vehicle for NGOs to virtue signal. Volt are enemies of Europe. I would agree that D66 is a better vote for any progressive/liberal Europeanists.

If Volt had its way, the exact opposite would happen, the refugee camps in Greece would disappear, and refugees would be distributed over member states, simple as that.

Not going to say people should by all means not vote for D66, but calling Volt an "enemy of Europe" is just ridiculous. Volt is a Pan European, even Eurofederalist party. That is not an "enemy of Europe", if you want to build a strawman, you could try calling them : "the enemy of independent nation states", which would also silly, but at least marginally grounded in something vaguely resembling a truth.

[Pan Evropa]

Nope. If Volt had their way then they'd just turn all of Greece into a refugee camp... they don't see the EU as a political vehicle for a civilisation with indigenous peoples inhabiting it and wanting to prosper, they see it as a vehicle for NGOs to virtue signal. Volt are enemies of Europe. I would agree that D66 is a better vote for any progressive/liberal Europeanists.

If Volt had its way, the exact opposite would happen, the refugee camps in Greece would disappear, and refugees would be distributed over member states, simple as that.

Yes and the thing is that Europe doesn't need more immigrants (let us be honest they are mostly immigrants not refugees). We took so many already, we don't need any more.

"the enemy of independent nation states", which would also silly, but at least marginally grounded in something vaguely resembling a truth.

well this is a good thing so I wouldn't say it when criticising them.