PR for Beginners(A Dutch Election Thread)

[The Blaatschapen]

There they go again.
What a fucking clown car.

Hans Smolders, former member of the JPF(Judea's People's Front), I mean LPF(Lijst Pim Fortuin) is among them.

[Hurdergaryp]

There they go again.
What a fucking clown car.

Hans Smolders, former member of the JPF(Judea's People's Front), I mean LPF(Lijst Pim Fortuin) is among them.

Mister Smolders is therefore a veteran clown car driver, envied by those who climbed on board only recently.

[Urgundy]

Well, Van Haga split off from FvD.

https://www.ad.nl/politiek/forum-scheur ... ~afaa3c02/

And I say, good on them. Let it burn.

To be honest, I saw this coming from the moment Haga was reported to have outdone Baudet in some municipalities.

Haga's ego is too big, and his habit of leaving factions too well-established, to defer to Baudet.
(Also: the fact that he's got LPF veteran acolytes now must have spurred him.)

The Dutch far right is very much like the hyper-calvinist wing of the Dutch religious spectre:

Two Dutch men is a church, three Dutch men is a schism.

[Juristonia]

Baudet: We don't take seat robbers

Van Haga: What about me?

Baudet: Okay, you can come

Van Haga: I'm leaving and taking my seat lol

Baudet:

[Hemip]

Little gossip - and relevant, Mods, so please allow the revival of the thread.

The new informateur, Mariëtte Hamer, is doing her best to put pressure on one party to say yes.

Hamer's own PvdA, GroenLinks, and (who else) D66 are assisting her in this effort. "Nu Doorpakken" (the party's campaign slogan: no half-measures now) is used to taunt the party's feet-dragging.

So which party is dragging its feet? - CDA.

Now,you may recall that in 2010, the CDA had a hemorrhage of left wing members, leaving the party over its co-operation with PVV. But it seems that the party has still stored the contact information of any past volunteers from that group. (Mild case of privacy law breach there, but never mind.) Back in 2010, the CDA responded to this hemorrhage by trying to draft new members from the economically conservative parts of the country - so the net change in membership was limited. Over the next few years, both prominent and non-prominent left-wingers continued to leave the party. The most noteable case was former member of the Tweede Kamer Hannie van Leeuwen (former resistance girl who had been a member for over 50 years).

The party is also trying to prop up Hoekstra, with "I support Hoekstra" campaign material, as can be found on its website. And it is desperately trying to find volunteers to get that campaign off the ground. So desperate, in fact, that they are trying to draft volunteers who have rescinded their membership eleven years ago. Friend of mine is one of those ex-members, and showed me the text he got.

So the CDA is reluctant to enter the negotiations.
The CDA is trying to campaign for Hoekstra. Which election is coming up, precisely?
The CDA is not finding the volunteers to campaign for Hoestra.
The CDA is in mild breach of privacy laws.

From this, I would surmise that Hoekstra is not popular among his voters, and the party may even be going for another hemorrhage. The party also seems to think there will be another election.
Leadership election?
Or new Tweede Kamer elections?

[Bung Jared]

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.

[The Blaatschapen]

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.

Wow, such a statement, very witty.

[Shrillland]

Little gossip - and relevant, Mods, so please allow the revival of the thread.

The new informateur, Mariëtte Hamer, is doing her best to put pressure on one party to say yes.

Hamer's own PvdA, GroenLinks, and (who else) D66 are assisting her in this effort. "Nu Doorpakken" (the party's campaign slogan: no half-measures now) is used to taunt the party's feet-dragging.

So which party is dragging its feet? - CDA.

Now,you may recall that in 2010, the CDA had a hemorrhage of left wing members, leaving the party over its co-operation with PVV. But it seems that the party has still stored the contact information of any past volunteers from that group. (Mild case of privacy law breach there, but never mind.) Back in 2010, the CDA responded to this hemorrhage by trying to draft new members from the economically conservative parts of the country - so the net change in membership was limited. Over the next few years, both prominent and non-prominent left-wingers continued to leave the party. The most noteable case was former member of the Tweede Kamer Hannie van Leeuwen (former resistance girl who had been a member for over 50 years).

The party is also trying to prop up Hoekstra, with "I support Hoekstra" campaign material, as can be found on its website. And it is desperately trying to find volunteers to get that campaign off the ground. So desperate, in fact, that they are trying to draft volunteers who have rescinded their membership eleven years ago. Friend of mine is one of those ex-members, and showed me the text he got.

So the CDA is reluctant to enter the negotiations.
The CDA is trying to campaign for Hoekstra. Which election is coming up, precisely?
The CDA is not finding the volunteers to campaign for Hoestra.
The CDA is in mild breach of privacy laws.

From this, I would surmise that Hoekstra is not popular among his voters, and the party may even be going for another hemorrhage. The party also seems to think there will be another election.
Leadership election?
Or new Tweede Kamer elections?

Leadership, maybe. The contact mess plus the still oozing Omtzigt wound may be leaving Hoekstra pretty vulnerable.

[Melanauta]

Problem for Hoekstra: he needs PvdA and Groenlinks to keep the Omtzigt voters happy, but his fiscally conservative voters (the 2010 emergency squad) feel uneasy about even one left party, let alone two. (Add D66, and you might even get to three.)

It's like he's trying to surf two boards at the same time, steering neither well, and getting his groin stretched in the process.

It should also be remembered that Hoekstra is a former "corpsbal" (Dutch equivalent of a 1000 heads frat president) and Klaver (from Groenlinks) is a former student activist. Those two mindsets are like water and fire. It doesn't help that Hoekstra and Klaver are both in the Dutch top #5 for most disastrously oversized ego, and both in the Dutch top #10 for most overestimated politician. Both see all and everything as a move, and neither assumes sincerity on the other's part.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

And then there was the mother of all bombshells.

Former Home Minister Liesbeth Spies is heading a committee to assess the CDA election loss.
Omtzigt has submitted a 76 page memorandum to that committee, voicing his long list of grievances against the party.

Someone has leaked that memorandum, including its attachments.

My opinion:
Omtzigt is likely to leave the party now. The party is likely to fall apart. This is an implosion in slow-motion.

Looking for an English language source; can't find one yet.

edit for missing word

[The Blaatschapen]

Jeez. For someone who is currently overworked, sending a 76 page document is just wow.

[Thepeopl]

Jeez. For someone who is currently overworked, sending a 76 page document is just wow.

It shows how deeply felt this is. To be on sick leave, unable to resume work because the rest of the political parties are too yuck.

Edit! Breaking news. Mr. P. Omtzigt leaves the CDA.

[Shrillland]

Jeez. For someone who is currently overworked, sending a 76 page document is just wow.

It shows how deeply felt this is. To be on sick leave, unable to resume work because the rest of the political parties are too yuck.

Edit! Breaking news. Mr. P. Omtzigt leaves the CDA.

Shit....the Tweede Kamer is almost unsalvageable at this point....there may have to be another election.

[The Blaatschapen]

Jeez. For someone who is currently overworked, sending a 76 page document is just wow.

It shows how deeply felt this is. To be on sick leave, unable to resume work because the rest of the political parties are too yuck.

Edit! Breaking news. Mr. P. Omtzigt leaves the CDA.

Well, he hasn't really met Volt yet...

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

It shows how deeply felt this is. To be on sick leave, unable to resume work because the rest of the political parties are too yuck.

Edit! Breaking news. Mr. P. Omtzigt leaves the CDA.

Shit....the Tweede Kamer is almost unsalvageable at this point....there may have to be another election.

Everybody is waiting for Rutte to take a hint and find a "position elsewhere" for himself.
Then new elections.
Then quickly new cabinet.

Or we can go for 2021's European Israel emulation, and do 5 electiosn in two years.

Or we can try to beat Belgium at the world record for longest cabinet formations.

[The Russian Astrofederation]

It shows how deeply felt this is. To be on sick leave, unable to resume work because the rest of the political parties are too yuck.

Edit! Breaking news. Mr. P. Omtzigt leaves the CDA.

Well, he hasn't really met Volt yet...

Omtzigt wants a new broad people's party, not a transnational superstate.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Shit....the Tweede Kamer is almost unsalvageable at this point....there may have to be another election.

Everybody is waiting for Rutte to take a hint and find a "position elsewhere" for himself.
Then new elections.
Then quickly new cabinet.

Or we can go for 2021's European Israel emulation, and do 5 electiosn in two years.

Or we can try to beat Belgium at the world record for longest cabinet formations.

There won’t be a new election. D66 and CDA wouldn’t be able to take it, they are both set to lose. So Rutte can extract anything he wants. He can just walk up to them and say “hey, either we enter into a coalition at our leasure, or we have new elections” and they will cave immediately.

[Rajult]

Everybody is waiting for Rutte to take a hint and find a "position elsewhere" for himself.
Then new elections.
Then quickly new cabinet.

Or we can go for 2021's European Israel emulation, and do 5 electiosn in two years.

Or we can try to beat Belgium at the world record for longest cabinet formations.

There won’t be a new election. D66 and CDA wouldn’t be able to take it, they are both set to lose. So Rutte can extract anything he wants. He can just walk up to them and say “hey, either we enter into a coalition at our leasure, or we have new elections” and they will cave immediately.

With respect, Neither Rutte nor Kaag / Hoekstra have the final say on whether there will be a new cabinet.

CDA is now left with 14 seats or so, D66 with 24, VVD with 34. Last time I checked, that is a minority.
Which parties are supposed to help them get their majority?

PvdA? - demands GroenLinks joins as well, and Hoekstra is adamantly against that.
Groenlinks? - demands PvdA joins as well, and CDA is adamantly against that.

Plus Rutte doesn't want the unholy trinity of D66-PvdA-Groenlinks to team up on him (41 seats - more than his 34)

ChristenUnie? - After that motion of censure?

SGP? - not enough for a majority anymore. Same goes for VOLT, Ja21.

SP? - has already vetoed anything led by Rutte. Same with PVV and FvD. For that matter, Bij1 and BBB want him gone too.

Omtzigt? Van Haga and co? - huge nopes on all of that.

Whether Rutte wants it or not, his options to achieve a new cabinet rest on Hoekstra's willingness to antagonise what remains of the CDA electorate, and work with both PvdA and Groenlinks, while also on his own willingness to compromise with those two. That's a lot of ifs, ands, and buts.

Maybe they will drag out these formation excercises until D66 and CDA could credibly avert the drubbing. Maybe. But a majority cabinet: not likely. My money is on October / November, when Rutte hopes to campaign on "hooray Corona has been beaten".

[Galloism]

And another slight rocking of the boat:

Sidney Smeets, who was elected into the chamber for the D66 party, is being accused of having behaved inappropiately towards minors on social media and in chatapps; like e.g. making suggestive comments and asking for clothes to be removed.

D66 has started an investigation - but critics point out they are only doing that because there was media attention; and that they have known of the accusations for months without ever bothering to do anything with them.

Gotta say, calling it the D66 party makes it feel like politics in The Netherlands is a very elaborate dungeons and dragons game.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Gotta say, calling it the D66 party makes it feel like politics in The Netherlands is a very elaborate dungeons and dragons game.

I mean, I guess it does distinguish them from the hundreds and hundreds of People's Parties and Liberal Parties out there in world politics. People start talking about '66 Democrats and you know they're talking about Dutch politics because nobody else has that name. :D

But the Best Party is still the best party.

[The Blaatschapen]

And another slight rocking of the boat:

Sidney Smeets, who was elected into the chamber for the D66 party, is being accused of having behaved inappropiately towards minors on social media and in chatapps; like e.g. making suggestive comments and asking for clothes to be removed.

D66 has started an investigation - but critics point out they are only doing that because there was media attention; and that they have known of the accusations for months without ever bothering to do anything with them.

Gotta say, calling it the D66 party makes it feel like politics in The Netherlands is a very elaborate dungeons and dragons game.

That's actually not an entirely inaccurate description of the coalition talks. The informateur is the dungeon master.

[The Nornorder]

Gotta say, calling it the D66 party makes it feel like politics in The Netherlands is a very elaborate dungeons and dragons game.

That's actually not an entirely inaccurate description of the coalition talks. The informateur is the dungeon master.

Mariette Hamer is anything but a master. - Unless D&D now includes masters who just sit there, go through the motions, and don't care about the throwings of the dice - because in the end the whole game will just be abrupted anyway, if only Mark would get out and realise that nobody wants him here anymore oh my G*D get a clue dude.

[The Blaatschapen]

That's actually not an entirely inaccurate description of the coalition talks. The informateur is the dungeon master.

Mariette Hamer is anything but a master. - Unless D&D now includes masters who just sit there, go through the motions, and don't care about the throwings of the dice - because in the end the whole game will just be abrupted anyway, if only Mark would get out and realise that nobody wants him here anymore oh my G*D get a clue dude.

Not all dungeon masters are good.

But I agree, we should end this. Stop Hamer time.

[Frysdan]

1977 record: here we come to break you.

[Thepeopl]

Gotta say, calling it the D66 party makes it feel like politics in The Netherlands is a very elaborate dungeons and dragons game.

That's actually not an entirely inaccurate description of the coalition talks. The informateur is the dungeon master.

Ooohh! Kinky!

It definitely feels like a bdsm Dungeon.