NATION

PASSWORD

Is Capitalism "The Final Stage"?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Is Capitalism The "Final Stage"

Yes; Current Capitalism Has Reached The Point Of A Final Stage
12
6%
Yes; While Capitalism Is The Final Stage, Our Current System Of Capitalism Is Not
21
10%
Yes; Capitalism, In Some Way Or Form, Is The Final Stage
26
12%
No
80
37%
There Is No Final Stage, This Is A Spook
78
36%
 
Total votes : 217

User avatar
The Giant Space Wyrm
Envoy
 
Posts: 222
Founded: Sep 19, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Giant Space Wyrm » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:27 am

The Final Stage is when we achieve Star Trek Fabricators. Once we have done so we have achieved the Final Stage.

Our only issue will be the Laws of Physics, and standard paranoia surrounding a world where no one needs to struggle breeding complacency or something stupid like that.
Shower Thoughts Updated FEB/18
"There is more to me than writing about making things go really fast. As soon as I can think of something else about me that is not related to that I will be sure to tell everyone."
"Lives are like currency, and we have a lot of disposable income."
Essentially Eldritch Mr. Rogers.
Q & A
Puppet: Comerciante

User avatar
Vivolkha
Diplomat
 
Posts: 741
Founded: Oct 15, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vivolkha » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:16 am

Picairn wrote:"The Final Stage" sounds like another neoliberal screed written by Francis "The End of History" Fukuyama.

My position is there is no Final Stage. Humanity will switch ideologies and systems when they are no longer working and applicable to their current situation, all the way until our extinction, because there is no such thing as a perfect ideology.

This.
Made of 100% cynicism. Currently, this is an exclusively OOC nation.
Pro: Parlamentarism, atheism, EU, EU and UN reform, capitalism (generally), strong state, welfare state, authoritarian drug policies, abortion, nuclear power, space exploration, science
Anti: Religion, totalitarianism (includes Communism/Fascism by definition), socialism, Trump, alt-right, drug decriminalization, conspiracy theories, laissez-faire capitalism, monarchism, anti-intellectualism

Check out my Dispatch guides!
How to build a realistic totalitarian state | How to start with any nation type (UPDATED)

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32593
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:24 am

@ OP: "viable"? Have you seen how rampant consumerism is turning our planet into a pile of shit?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Arisyan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 166
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:28 am

No. Quite frankly socialism is the final stage. Per se eco-socialism, which will end the climate crisis and fix most problems associated with modern capitalism. Capitalism, is quite frankly, only still around through scare tactics through the US and that's all. oh, and neoliberalism played a part too.
Pro: Environmentalism, Eco-Socialism, Democratic Socialism, Social Democracy,Progressivism, Pro-choice, Pro-LGTBQ+ rights, Immigration, Bernie Sanders,Secularism, Palestine And Israel, Internationalism, Alter-Globalization.
Anti: Conservatism, Traditionalism, Bigotry, TERF movement, Fascism, Stalinism, Totalitarianism, Laissez-faire capitalism, Libertarianism, Bolsonaro, Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism


Judge of Callista
left-wing socialist
Anatoliyanskiy's OOC nation he uses to debate on NSG.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:30 am

Senkaku wrote:relevant:

Came to post the "Fukuyama announces History 2" picture, this is far superior.


Nevertopia wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:According to quite a few people online, Karl Marx supported capitalism. So it might be him, who knows?


lol Karl Marx lived off of his rich capitalist friends when he made his communist manifesto. Let that sink in.

Well grifted, Karl.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:56 am

This thread:
What's it meant to be: a space for providing arguments for or against a thesis that capitalism can change into something else.
What it actually is: white, middle-class communists engaging in virtue signalling and painting large targets on the backs of left-oriented people who want to do something more than just complain about capitalism.
Last edited by Mustardaise on Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10281
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:58 am

Mustardaise wrote:This thread:
What's it meant to be: a space for providing arguments for or against a thesis that capitalism can change into something else.
What it actually is: white, middle-class communists complaining about capitalism and painting large targets on the backs of left-oriented people who want to do something more than just complain about capitalism.

Lol what

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:02 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Mustardaise wrote:This thread:
What's it meant to be: a space for providing arguments for or against a thesis that capitalism can change into something else.
What it actually is: white, middle-class communists complaining about capitalism and painting large targets on the backs of left-oriented people who want to do something more than just complain about capitalism.

Lol what

Point to the specific part of my comment which you are having trouble understanding and I'll try my best to elaborate.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:03 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Mustardaise wrote:This thread:
What's it meant to be: a space for providing arguments for or against a thesis that capitalism can change into something else.
What it actually is: white, middle-class communists complaining about capitalism and painting large targets on the backs of left-oriented people who want to do something more than just complain about capitalism.

Lol what

Lefty shitposting is a danger to real leftists because something something middle-class.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10281
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Lol what

Lefty shitposting is a danger to real leftists because something something middle-class.

I just got called white I feel so dirty.

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:07 am

Ifreann wrote:Lefty shitposting is a danger to real leftists because something something middle-class.

Shitposting is not an issue. The issue is that it is pretty much everything those people are attempting to do in an attempt to fix the world. Meanwhile, the system that works for all the wrong reasons is laughing at us.
Last edited by Mustardaise on Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Esheaun Stroakuss
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1989
Founded: May 23, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:09 am

I am very open to the idea of capitalist reform in the short term. In the long term, capitalism should either be replaced by something else, i.e. socialism/anarchism, or transition into something entirely new. I think the pragmatic approach is to work within the system, change it so it is more ethical and responsible, and more representative of what people want. This can only be done through rhetoric and direct action.

I would like to think the "final stage" is brought in through peaceful means. Though I have to accept the possibility of a violent revolution, I am still not a bloodthirsty psycho who wants people to die, so I am reluctant to advocate for it. If a violent revolution must occur to reach the "final stage" it must be against the aggressors of the state, not citizens.

Capitalism is capable of changing for the better. It is also capable of becoming much worse. Can it be reformed, or is it just putting a new coat of paint over an old, broken thing? Either way I am willing to discuss reform for the short term.

As much as "down with capitalism" is a cool meme, it is also bad optics if you want to get people on your side. Tankies in that regard are not worth your time if you want a straight answer.
For: Socialism, Democracy, LGBT+, BLM, Freedom of Speech, Marxist Theory, Atheism, Freedom of/from Religion, Universal Healthcare
Against: Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism, Fascism/Nazism, Authoritarianism, TERFs, Tankies, Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Capitalism

Esheaun Stroakuss is leaderless.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:17 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Lefty shitposting is a danger to real leftists because something something middle-class.

Shitposting is not an issue. The issue is that it is pretty much everything those people are attempting to do in an attempt to fix the world.

Well, good for them to be doing something and not nothing.
Meanwhile, the system that works for all the wrong reasons is laughing at us.

How terrible it must be for you to feel like someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad ideological tendency with which you happen to identify.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:20 am

Ifreann wrote:How terrible it must be for you to feel like someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad ideological tendency with which you happen to identify.

How terrible it must be for you to feel like when someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad sexual identity with which you happen to identify.

Keep shooting yourself in your foot. Anything after the first shot feels like nothing, anyway.
Last edited by Mustardaise on Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Esheaun Stroakuss
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1989
Founded: May 23, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:22 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Ifreann wrote:How terrible it must be for you to feel like someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad ideological tendency with which you happen to identify.

How terrible it must be for you to feel like when someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad sexual identity with which you happen to identify.


What...?
For: Socialism, Democracy, LGBT+, BLM, Freedom of Speech, Marxist Theory, Atheism, Freedom of/from Religion, Universal Healthcare
Against: Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism, Fascism/Nazism, Authoritarianism, TERFs, Tankies, Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Capitalism

Esheaun Stroakuss is leaderless.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:22 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Ifreann wrote:How terrible it must be for you to feel like someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad ideological tendency with which you happen to identify.

How terrible it must be for you to feel like when someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad sexual identity with which you happen to identify.

Nah, it's usually funny when people laugh at the straights not being okay.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5381
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:23 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Ifreann wrote:How terrible it must be for you to feel like someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad ideological tendency with which you happen to identify.

How terrible it must be for you to feel like when someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad sexual identity with which you happen to identify.

Oooookay, now you've lost me.

Ideology is voluntary, sexual orientation isn't.
Kannap wrote:It is I, the stranger in the night who cuts the power lines with hedge clippers
Valentine Z wrote:**a m b i e n c e**
YESSSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! YUFFIE! YUFFIE! MORE FF7R! MORE FF7R! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
The self-proclaimed Resident Shitposter of NSG.
Proudly sex-repulsed ace and bisensual aro. Cis he/him. Trans ally. ADHD.
"To comment is human, to preview, divine." - Godot
Orthodox Preterist non-denominational Christian Universalist.
I write fanfiction (of the non-explicit kind). Fuck you if you judge me.
Pirate Politics are fucking awesome.

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:24 am

Atheris wrote:Ideology is voluntary, sexual orientation isn't.

So you're saying I can just flick my fingers and stop believing that homosexuals should be treated like any other people, and that the poor should have higher standards of living?

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5381
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:25 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Atheris wrote:Ideology is voluntary, sexual orientation isn't.

So you're saying I can just flick my fingers and stop believing that homosexuals should be treated like any other people, and that the poor should have higher standards of living?

I can't tell if this is a goalpost or a strawman.

Can it be both? Please tell me it's both.
Kannap wrote:It is I, the stranger in the night who cuts the power lines with hedge clippers
Valentine Z wrote:**a m b i e n c e**
YESSSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! YUFFIE! YUFFIE! MORE FF7R! MORE FF7R! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
The self-proclaimed Resident Shitposter of NSG.
Proudly sex-repulsed ace and bisensual aro. Cis he/him. Trans ally. ADHD.
"To comment is human, to preview, divine." - Godot
Orthodox Preterist non-denominational Christian Universalist.
I write fanfiction (of the non-explicit kind). Fuck you if you judge me.
Pirate Politics are fucking awesome.

User avatar
Esheaun Stroakuss
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1989
Founded: May 23, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:27 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Atheris wrote:Ideology is voluntary, sexual orientation isn't.

So you're saying I can just flick my fingers and stop believing that homosexuals should be treated like any other people, and that the poor should have higher standards of living?


...no one said you did not believe in those things?
For: Socialism, Democracy, LGBT+, BLM, Freedom of Speech, Marxist Theory, Atheism, Freedom of/from Religion, Universal Healthcare
Against: Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism, Fascism/Nazism, Authoritarianism, TERFs, Tankies, Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Capitalism

Esheaun Stroakuss is leaderless.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:28 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Atheris wrote:Ideology is voluntary, sexual orientation isn't.

So you're saying I can just flick my fingers and stop believing that homosexuals should be treated like any other people, and that the poor should have higher standards of living?

You seem to have flicked your fingers and started to believe that being a lefto is just like being gay, so yes, I imagine that you could.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:30 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Mustardaise wrote:So you're saying I can just flick my fingers and stop believing that homosexuals should be treated like any other people, and that the poor should have higher standards of living?


...no one said you did not believe in those things?

Wasn't my point, though.

Ifreann wrote:You seem to have flicked your fingers and started to believe that being a lefto is just like being gay, so yes, I imagine that you could.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Last edited by Mustardaise on Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5381
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:31 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You seem to have flicked your fingers and started to believe that being a lefto is just like being gay, so yes, I imagine that you could.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

The hypocrisy is real with this one.
Kannap wrote:It is I, the stranger in the night who cuts the power lines with hedge clippers
Valentine Z wrote:**a m b i e n c e**
YESSSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! YUFFIE! YUFFIE! MORE FF7R! MORE FF7R! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
The self-proclaimed Resident Shitposter of NSG.
Proudly sex-repulsed ace and bisensual aro. Cis he/him. Trans ally. ADHD.
"To comment is human, to preview, divine." - Godot
Orthodox Preterist non-denominational Christian Universalist.
I write fanfiction (of the non-explicit kind). Fuck you if you judge me.
Pirate Politics are fucking awesome.

User avatar
Mustardaise
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mustardaise » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:35 am

Atheris wrote:

The hypocrisy is real with this one.

Not really:
Ifreann wrote:
Mustardaise wrote:How terrible it must be for you to feel like when someone, somewhere, presumably, is laughing not at you specifically, but at a broad sexual identity with which you happen to identify.

Nah, it's usually funny when people laugh at the straights not being okay.


---

Anyway, you guys have each other, so I guess I am happy for you. Just keep your brushes off my back, please.
Last edited by Mustardaise on Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5381
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:41 am

Mustardaise wrote:
Atheris wrote:The hypocrisy is real with this one.

Not really:
Ifreann wrote:Nah, it's usually funny when people laugh at the straights not being okay.

That's... not what hypocrisy means...
Kannap wrote:It is I, the stranger in the night who cuts the power lines with hedge clippers
Valentine Z wrote:**a m b i e n c e**
YESSSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING! YUFFIE! YUFFIE! MORE FF7R! MORE FF7R! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
The self-proclaimed Resident Shitposter of NSG.
Proudly sex-repulsed ace and bisensual aro. Cis he/him. Trans ally. ADHD.
"To comment is human, to preview, divine." - Godot
Orthodox Preterist non-denominational Christian Universalist.
I write fanfiction (of the non-explicit kind). Fuck you if you judge me.
Pirate Politics are fucking awesome.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Abserdia, Bombadil, Google Adsense [Bot], Heloin, Lysset, Neanderthaland, Norcialki, Omniabstracta, Perchan, Punished UMN, Senkaku, The Reformed American Republic, Tyunmen, Victorious Decepticons, Window Land

Advertisement

Remove ads