Morocco Normalizes Relations with Israel

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

The Moroccans do rather better out of this than either the Israelis or the Palestinians.

It terms of Moroccan-Israeli relations, it merely regularises a situation that already exists de facto (50,000 Israeli tourists visit Morocco each year under normal circumstances, and Morocco is notably more welcoming of its historical and current Jewish population than most Arab countries). The only practical differences it'll make are official embassies rather than 'trade delegations' and direct flights once COVID isn't an issue.

The real losers aren't the Palestinians, it's POLISARIO and the Sahrawis. In return for merely making de jure what was already de facto between Israel and Morocco, the Moroccans get US recognition of their control of Western Sahara (80% of which they already control anyway), undermining any attempts towards international recognition by POLISARIO or the self-proclaimed Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic.

So looking at the realpolitik rather than the moral rights or wrongs of the situation, the Moroccans are likely feeling fairly smug this morning.

This. Out of all the recent Arab-Israeli deals, this is by far the worst one.

To be serious even Iran-style elections are way better than China and North Korea.

Strictly true, though calling those "elections" is quite the stretch. Still, this does not imply that Iranian elections are democratic, they are not.

Sure but they are probably already more democratic than most places in the region.

[Federal Asia]

They can get a lot more land in the New World and Oceania compared to the crowded West Bank & Gaza.

Dude, it’s not just any land! Palestine is their homeland, they’re ancestors’ land, and it was stolen from them. They want THAT land.

He wants Palestinians to give up their homes to make space for Jews lol

An euphemistic version of ethnic cleansing

[Vivolkha]

They can get a lot more land in the New World and Oceania compared to the crowded West Bank & Gaza.

Dude, it’s not just any land! Palestine is their homeland, they’re ancestors’ land, and it was stolen from them. They want THAT land.

The Jews can say the exact same... else there would be no Arab-Israeli conflict in the first place.

[Federal Asia]

"Any election that doesn't have pro-Western parties/candidates is a fraud"

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

They can get a lot more land in the New World and Oceania compared to the crowded West Bank & Gaza.

Dude, it’s not just any land! Palestine is their homeland, their ancestors’ land, and it was stolen from them. They want THAT land.

Muh ancestorism is the source of a lot of tears on this planet. There are endless absurd conflicts over things such as “muh Danzig iz Germany!” and “muh Gdańsk iz Poland!” because of this.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

"Any election that doesn't have pro-Western parties/candidates is a fraud"

Wut?

[Federal Asia]

"Any election that doesn't have pro-Western parties/candidates is a fraud"

Wut?

I was paraphrasing Vivolkha

[Nakena]

I have not said palestinians should escape or emigrate. lol

But I do sympathize with Neko's argument that the fate of people as individuals is in question of doubt more important than some political abstraction, specifically if the later one is unrealistic or cannot be feasibly reached.

This is not a leftist argument, but a libertarian argument

So what?

[Insaanistan]

Russia and China? Frick no.
Turkey and Iran? Unfortunately, yes, though Iran in particular often takes it freaking far, like when they banned Sami Yusuf music when he played in Nazareth (even though the audience was almost alll Palestinian and he considers Nazareth part of Palestine.)
Also, keep in mind some Arab countries hate Saudi or even their leaders love the Palestinians so much they’d almost certainly never normalize relations with Israel.

Lol Turkey just betrayed them too

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... dogan.html

Only socialist anti-imperialist countries can save Palestine. Muslims have failed, Islamism is a fricking meme-ideology

Yeah, but Erdogan has been purposely screwing with Turkey-Israel relations for a long time. He even made sure that ambassador to Israel was pro-Palestinian.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Wut?

I was paraphrasing Vivolkha

That’s not really true. Elections are elections. As long as they have multiple candidates, are conducted without much violence and other fraud they are good.

[Federal Asia]

Lol Turkey just betrayed them too

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... dogan.html

Only socialist anti-imperialist countries can save Palestine. Muslims have failed, Islamism is a fricking meme-ideology

Yeah, but Erdogan has been purposely screwing with Turkey-Israel relations for a long time. He even made sure that ambassador to Israel was pro-Palestinian.

Erdogan is a Nato puppet and is not interested in Palestine I think it's clear at this point.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Lol Turkey just betrayed them too

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... dogan.html

Only socialist anti-imperialist countries can save Palestine. Muslims have failed, Islamism is a fricking meme-ideology

Yeah, but Erdogan has been purposely screwing with Turkey-Israel relations for a long time. He even made sure that ambassador to Israel was pro-Palestinian.

Erdogan is a part of the problem.

It is obvious that I support Kemalism.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Yeah, but Erdogan has been purposely screwing with Turkey-Israel relations for a long time. He even made sure that ambassador to Israel was pro-Palestinian.

Erdogan is a Nato puppet and is not interested in Palestine I think it's clear at this point.

Your definition of puppet is deeply Sinostatist lol.

[-Astoria-]

I've a probably incoherent & dumb thing, but go on hear me out take; wouldn't the spate of normalisations actually help in some way the question of Palestine, given that it might give said countries a little bit more leverage in negotiations (yes, it may not account for much at the end, but surely it's better than nothing)?

[Insaanistan]

Dude, it’s not just any land! Palestine is their homeland, their ancestors’ land, and it was stolen from them. They want THAT land.

Muh ancestorism is the source of a lot of tears on this planet. There are endless absurd conflicts over things such as “muh Danzig iz Germany!” and “muh Gdańsk iz Poland!” because of this.

I don’t think the Germans were living get on the land for centuries then got colonized and then got the land stolen by Austria who began oppressing them.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Muh ancestorism is the source of a lot of tears on this planet. There are endless absurd conflicts over things such as “muh Danzig iz Germany!” and “muh Gdańsk iz Poland!” because of this.

I don’t think the Germans were living get on the land for centuries then got colonized and then got the land stolen by Austria who began oppressing them.

I always think you guys would have shut up if Israel acted like a normal East European or MENA country, seriously. They have shown lots of restraint hence you guys can bash them in safety, knowing that they are not coming for you.

[Genivaria]

I have not said palestinians should escape or emigrate. lol

But I do sympathize with Neko's argument that the fate of people as individuals is in question of doubt more important than some political abstraction, specifically if the later one is unrealistic or cannot be feasibly reached.

This is not a leftist argument, but a libertarian argument

I honestly don't think you know what either of those words mean.

[Federal Asia]

I don’t think the Germans were living get on the land for centuries then got colonized and then got the land stolen by Austria who began oppressing them.

I always think you guys would have shut up if Israel acted like a normal East European or MENA country, seriously. They have shown lots of restraint hence you guys can bash them in safety, knowing that they are not coming for you.

"Restraint"?

Where do you get your news on the Middle East from? OANN?

[Genivaria]

Yeah, but Erdogan has been purposely screwing with Turkey-Israel relations for a long time. He even made sure that ambassador to Israel was pro-Palestinian.

Erdogan is a Nato puppet and is not interested in Palestine I think it's clear at this point.

Yes, 'puppet'. That's why he keeps making threats against our European allies.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I always think you guys would have shut up if Israel acted like a normal East European or MENA country, seriously. They have shown lots of restraint hence you guys can bash them in safety, knowing that they are not coming for you.

"Restraint"?

Where do you get your news on the Middle East from? OANN?

Nope lol. I read both Arab websites and Israeli ones. Jerusalem Post & Middle Eastern Eye are pretty good.

It is indeed unfair to compare Israel with Apartheid South Africa, let alone fascist states. This is why I think people who bash Israel are in as much bad faith as older antisemites. These people really only scream about Jews and Israel precisely because they are not very deadly.

[Federal Asia]

"Restraint"?

Where do you get your news on the Middle East from? OANN?

Nope lol. I read both Arab websites and Israeli ones. Jerusalem Post & Middle Eastern Eye are pretty good.

So basically Saudi and Israeli propaganda lol

This explains why you have such uninformed views on the region

[Debussy]

No tears shed for Western Sahara's independence.

[Genivaria]

Nope lol. I read both Arab websites and Israeli ones. Jerusalem Post & Middle Eastern Eye are pretty good.

So basically Saudi and Israeli propaganda lol

This explains why you have such uninformed views on the region

I can only assume by 'Saudi propaganda' you're referring to the Middle Eastern Eye which a quick google search would reveal is based in and operated out of London.
You're so desperate to dismiss anything that opposes your view that it's plainly obvious you don't care what the reality actually is.
And yes please tell us about how our views are uninformed when you think the majority of the world views China as quote 'the Messiah'.

[Federal Asia]

No tears shed for Western Sahara's independence.

Indeed, the "save the Kurds" crowd is oddly silent this time

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

No tears shed for Western Sahara's independence.

Indeed, the "save the Kurds" crowd is oddly silent this time

Western Sahara does need to be independent.