Morocco Normalizes Relations with Israel

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

You are going to get Palestinians to live much better lives.

At the expense of cancelling Palestine from the map...

Nope. Israel does not have the stomach to annex Palestine. So it will continue to exist.

[Nakena]

You are going to get Palestinians to live much better lives.

At the expense of cancelling Palestine from the map...

So you care more about the map and similar stuff than the actual people?

You strike me as one of those anti-imperialists who define their entire political worldview about that of their enemy, and in this case that is the US. Would the Palestinians be on the side of the US you'd support Israel.

[Federal Asia]

At the expense of cancelling Palestine from the map...

Would the Palestinians be on the side of the US you'd support Israel.

Absolutely false, but go on with your assumptions

[Federal Asia]

At the expense of cancelling Palestine from the map...

Nope. Israel does not have the stomach to annex Palestine. So it will continue to exist.

I wouldn't be too optimistic about it. Even the Israeli opposition is beginning to accept the scenario of a West Bank annexation

[Vivolkha]

I do favor Arab nations recognizing Israel.

From what I understand though, the deal wouldn't even include an embassy exchange, just the lowest of the lowest recognition.
Furthermore, it recognizes Morocco's brutal colonization of Western Sahara, which is a big no-no.

[Federal Asia]

At the expense of cancelling Palestine from the map...

So you care more about the map and similar stuff than the actual people?

Why should the Palestinians be those who must emigrate?

Why don't you tell Israelis to emigrate? I'm sure they would be happy in the New World too, no wars there.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

At the expense of cancelling Palestine from the map...

So you care more about the map and similar stuff than the actual people?

You strike me as one of those anti-imperialists who define their entire political worldview about that of their enemy, and in this case that is the US. Would the Palestinians be on the side of the US you'd support Israel.

That’s a symptom of ethnonationalists and collectivists in general.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Nope. Israel does not have the stomach to annex Palestine. So it will continue to exist.

I wouldn't be too optimistic about it. Even the Israeli opposition is beginning to accept the scenario of a West Bank annexation

You don’t seem to understand why Israel does not want to annex the West Bank except for small? , less populated parts of it: Preserving Jewish majority.

[Federal Asia]

I wouldn't be too optimistic about it. Even the Israeli opposition is beginning to accept the scenario of a West Bank annexation

You don’t seem to understand why Israel does not want to annex the West Bank except for small? , less populated parts of it: Preserving Jewish majority.

Do you realize that the settlements are illegal according to international law?

You keep making excuses for Israel without considering international law

[Nakena]

So you care more about the map and similar stuff than the actual people?

Why should the Palestinians be those who must emigrate?

Why don't you tell Israelis to emigrate? I'm sure they would be happy in the New World too, no wars there.

Would the Palestinians be on the side of the US you'd support Israel.

Absolutely false, but go on with your assumptions

I believe I am kinda on spot here, because you said you hate Saudi-Arabia (nothing wrong with that) but you like the mullah regime in Iran?

[Greater Miami Shores]

I wouldn't be too optimistic about it. Even the Israeli opposition is beginning to accept the scenario of a West Bank annexation

You don’t seem to understand why Israel does not want to annex the West Bank except for small? , less populated parts of it: Preserving Jewish majority.

Excellent Post. GMS.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Why should the Palestinians be those who must emigrate?

Why don't you tell Israelis to emigrate? I'm sure they would be happy in the New World too, no wars there.

Absolutely false, but go on with your assumptions

I believe I am kinda on spot here, because you said you hate Saudi-Arabia (nothing wrong with that) but you like the mullah regime in Iran?

To be fair Iran is actually socially a lot more liberal and tolerable than Saudi Arabia. The regime is the only thing crazy there.

[Federal Asia]

Why should the Palestinians be those who must emigrate?

Why don't you tell Israelis to emigrate? I'm sure they would be happy in the New World too, no wars there.

Absolutely false, but go on with your assumptions

I believe I am kinda on spot here, because you said you hate Saudi-Arabia (nothing wrong with that) but you like the mullah regime in Iran?

Answer my question please. Why Palestinians should escape war thru emigration but Israelis can stay?

[Vivolkha]

To be fair Iran is actually socially a lot more liberal and tolerable than Saudi Arabia.

True, though it excuses the human rights violations of neither.

[Federal Asia]

I believe I am kinda on spot here, because you said you hate Saudi-Arabia (nothing wrong with that) but you like the mullah regime in Iran?

To be fair Iran is actually socially a lot more liberal and tolerable than Saudi Arabia. The regime is the only thing crazy there.

Iran has a parliament, elections, excellent public education and political independence.

Saudi is an absolute monarchy, a colony of the US, lack of a secular education system and so on

[Nakena]

I believe I am kinda on spot here, because you said you hate Saudi-Arabia (nothing wrong with that) but you like the mullah regime in Iran?

Answer my question please. Why Palestinians should escape war thru emigration but Israelis can stay?

I have not said palestinians should escape or emigrate. lol

But I do sympathize with Neko's argument that the fate of people as individuals is in question of doubt more important than some political abstraction, specifically if the later one is unrealistic or cannot be feasibly reached.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

To be fair Iran is actually socially a lot more liberal and tolerable than Saudi Arabia. The regime is the only thing crazy there.

Iran has a parliament, elections, excellent public education and political independence.

Saudi is an absolute monarchy, a colony of the US, lack of a secular education system and so on

Ok. You are actually spot on for a few things other than “Saudi Arabia is a colony of the US” which is false. Does China have Iran-style elections?

[Federal Asia]

Answer my question please. Why Palestinians should escape war thru emigration but Israelis can stay?

I have not said palestinians should escape or emigrate. lol

But I do sympathize with Neko's argument that the fate of people as individuals is in question of doubt more important than some political abstraction, specifically if the later one is unrealistic or cannot be feasibly reached.

This is not a leftist argument, but a libertarian argument

[The Archregimancy]

The Moroccans do rather better out of this than either the Israelis or the Palestinians.

It terms of Moroccan-Israeli relations, it merely regularises a situation that already exists de facto (50,000 Israeli tourists visit Morocco each year under normal circumstances, and Morocco is notably more welcoming of its historical and current Jewish population than most Arab countries). The only practical differences it'll make are official embassies rather than 'trade delegations' and direct flights once COVID isn't an issue.

The real losers aren't the Palestinians, it's POLISARIO and the Sahrawis. In return for merely making de jure what was already de facto between Israel and Morocco, the Moroccans get US recognition of their control of Western Sahara (80% of which they already control anyway), undermining any attempts towards international recognition by POLISARIO or the self-proclaimed Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic.

So looking at the realpolitik rather than the moral rights or wrongs of the situation, the Moroccans are likely feeling fairly smug this morning.

[Vivolkha]

Iran has a parliament

A fairly powerless one,

elections,

That aren't fair in any way,

excellent public education

Which is tighly under political control.

and political independence.

Define "political independence".

Saudi is an absolute monarchy, a colony of the US, lack of a secular education system and so on

On the contrary, Saudi Arabia profits from US support, which it uses to advance its own interests, while being an American ally only on paper.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Iran has a parliament

A fairly powerless one,

elections,

That aren't fair in any way,

excellent public education

Which is tighly under political control.

and political independence.

Define "political independence".

Saudi is an absolute monarchy, a colony of the US, lack of a secular education system and so on

On the contrary, Saudi Arabia profits from US support, which it uses to advance its own interests, while being an American ally only on paper.

To be serious even Iran-style elections are way better than China and North Korea. Its best universities are indeed pretty good.

[Vivolkha]

The Moroccans do rather better out of this than either the Israelis or the Palestinians.

It terms of Moroccan-Israeli relations, it merely regularises a situation that already exists de facto (50,000 Israeli tourists visit Morocco each year under normal circumstances, and Morocco is notably more welcoming of its historical and current Jewish population than most Arab countries). The only practical differences it'll make are official embassies rather than 'trade delegations' and direct flights once COVID isn't an issue.

The real losers aren't the Palestinians, it's POLISARIO and the Sahrawis. In return for merely making de jure what was already de facto between Israel and Morocco, the Moroccans get US recognition of their control of Western Sahara (80% of which they already control anyway), undermining any attempts towards international recognition by POLISARIO or the self-proclaimed Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic.

So looking at the realpolitik rather than the moral rights or wrongs of the situation, the Moroccans are likely feeling fairly smug this morning.

This. Out of all the recent Arab-Israeli deals, this is by far the worst one.

To be serious even Iran-style elections are way better than China and North Korea.

Strictly true, though calling those "elections" is quite the stretch. Still, this does not imply that Iranian elections are democratic, they are not.

[Federal Asia]

Iran has a parliament

A fairly powerless one,

elections,

That aren't fair in any way,

excellent public education

Which is tighly under political control.

and political independence.

Define "political independence".

Saudi is an absolute monarchy, a colony of the US, lack of a secular education system and so on

On the contrary, Saudi Arabia profits from US support, which it uses to advance its own interests, while being an American ally only on paper.

Saudis are cavemen, Iran is a nation of scientists, I don't think there's anything to debate here

[Insaanistan]

Okay, I understand where you’re coming from, but you forgot the main point is that they want they’re land back.

They can get a lot more land in the New World and Oceania compared to the crowded West Bank & Gaza.

Dude, it’s not just any land! Palestine is their homeland, their ancestors’ land, and it was stolen from them. They want THAT land.

[Vivolkha]

I don't think there's anything to debate here

There isn't because you aren't even coming up with any arguments at all.