The American Empire

[Plzen]

So you're saying China is just as moral as the U.S.

In terms of foreign policy? Yes. That is exactly what we are saying.

Although “just as immoral” might be a better way to phrase that.

[United Chinese Communes]

Only its own propaganda. The United States is no more moral than any other Empire. It is interested only in maintaining its own power, and is entirely willing to resort to utter ruthlessness to do so.

So you're saying China is just as moral as the U.S.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not exactly Xi's biggest fan.

[Rusozak]

So you're saying China is just as moral as the U.S.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not exactly Xi's biggest fan.

That's fair, from a foreign policy standpoint. It would be foolish to believe either has a benevolent interest in helping other nations.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

So you're saying China is just as moral as the U.S.

In terms of foreign policy? Yes. That is exactly what we are saying.

Although “just as immoral” might be a better way to phrase that.

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

[Plzen]

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

The funny thing about me believing A=B, I have to argue against both people who believe A>B and those that believe A<B.

US foreign policy may be utterly shameless, but the Chinese foreign ministry hardly has a great capacity for shame either. For starters, why is Hong Kong “China’s internal affairs” when Britain has been specifically guaranteed by treaty as to the city’s autonomy?

The US is only able to act so bullishly because it is the world’s dominant superpower. We’ve only had a small taste of what China would be like as a superpower, and I’m not liking what I’m seeing. Imperialism, power politics... just like the Americans!

[Shanghai industrial complex]

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

The funny thing about me believing A=B, I have to argue against both people who believe A>B and those that believe A<B.

US foreign policy may be utterly shameless, but the Chinese foreign ministry hardly has a great capacity for shame either. For starters, why is Hong Kong “China’s internal affairs” when Britain has been specifically guaranteed by treaty as to the city’s autonomy?

The US is only able to act so bullishly because it is the world’s dominant superpower. We’ve only had a small taste of what China would be like as a superpower, and I’m not liking what I’m seeing. Imperialism, power politics... just like the Americans!

To Britain ?Who Britain think they are? Promise to the UK?Hong Kong still has disgusting autonomy. But whether they have it or not, it has nothing to do with Britain.
Strong is not America's shameless excuse.It was shameless before the United States became the strongest country..

[Badjuristan]

The funny thing about me believing A=B, I have to argue against both people who believe A>B and those that believe A<B.

US foreign policy may be utterly shameless, but the Chinese foreign ministry hardly has a great capacity for shame either. For starters, why is Hong Kong “China’s internal affairs” when Britain has been specifically guaranteed by treaty as to the city’s autonomy?

The US is only able to act so bullishly because it is the world’s dominant superpower. We’ve only had a small taste of what China would be like as a superpower, and I’m not liking what I’m seeing. Imperialism, power politics... just like the Americans!

To Britain ?Who Britain think they are? Promise to the UK?Hong Kong still has disgusting autonomy. But whether they have it or not, it has nothing to do with Britain.
Strong is not America's shameless excuse.It was shameless before the United States became the strongest country..

Britain Owned Hong Kong until Recent. In the Treaty, They said that britain would Own Hong Kong for 100 Years, I believe. It also said, When Britain gave the City back, HK would have Autonomy. So, It actually has Everything to do with Britain.

[Plzen]

To Britain ?Who Britain think they are?

A co-signatory to the 1986 Joint Statement, which is the diplomatic basis for the ‘97 handover.

Promise to the UK?Hong Kong still has disgusting autonomy. But whether they have it or not, it has nothing to do with Britain.

So China considers upholding its international treaty obligations as an internal matter that has nothing to do with other countries. That, really, is exactly my point.

But this discussion really belongs in the China thread if you wish to continue it; this thread is on US imperialism.

[Lavan Tiri]

Only its own propaganda. The United States is no more moral than any other Empire. It is interested only in maintaining its own power, and is entirely willing to resort to utter ruthlessness to do so.

So you're saying China is just as moral as the U.S.

They're equally evil, yes.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

To Britain ?Who Britain think they are?

A co-signatory to the 1986 Joint Statement, which is the diplomatic basis for the ‘97 handover.

Promise to the UK?Hong Kong still has disgusting autonomy. But whether they have it or not, it has nothing to do with Britain.

So China considers upholding its international treaty obligations as an internal matter that has nothing to do with other countries. That, really, is exactly my point.

But this discussion really belongs in the China thread if you wish to continue it; this thread is on US imperialism.

The nature of the joint declaration is similar to a memorandum, not a treaty.This is a statement, not a legal one.What's more, it says high autonomy, not full autonomy. Hong Kong remains a place to be governed by the Chinese government

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

In terms of foreign policy? Yes. That is exactly what we are saying.

Although “just as immoral” might be a better way to phrase that.

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

*Twitch*
Nah, going back to the CCP for the hundredth time.

In defense of the US, there is no ongoing genocide like there is in China with the Uyghurs.

So you're saying China is just as moral as the U.S.

They're equally evil, yes.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Oh noes! A generic America thread! What am I to do?

I could care less about the kind of imperial superpower America used to be in centuries past, or how racist, sexist, and borderline genocidal it once was, or that it used to practice slavery or subjugate the natives of the Philippines or install right-wing, neoliberal dictatorships across the developing world during the Cold War, or that it made the grave mistake of invading Iraq and toppling Gaddafi with no exit strategy.

I care about what America stands and fights for today. America today is no longer fundamentally or institutionally racist with the sole exception of Democrat-supported affirmative action against whites, Asians, men, and Jews. It no longer practices slavery today. Unlike China and the former USSR, liberal democracy is alive and well in America and the country remains an inspiration and a beacon of hope for countless millions of people around the world, particularly in places such as Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Republicans, and, to a lesser extent, Democrats, are finally beginning to acknowledge many of their past foreign policy mistakes and blunders, particularly with respect to the PRC.

The American government may be far from perfect and the neoliberal, big business model has clearly failed, but it's the thought that counts. Yes, the CIA toppled democratically elected leaders and installed dictatorships. Yes, America practiced slavery once upon a time. Yes, Native Americans were ethnically cleansed and corralled into concentration camps known as reservations, where their children were raped, beaten, and "re-educated" as the Uighurs are today in Xinjiang.

But America also stands for freedom, democracy, and the rule of law. It also represents a continuation and extension of an English and British legal and political, common law tradition that dates back to the Magna Carta in the 13th century and possibly even earlier. The Anglo-Saxon cultural and imperial legacy is one the whole world should be grateful for. Not even the former empires of France, Germany, Spain, or Italy can hope to come close. Those empires were far more savage and brutal compared to the British and American Empires, and their metropoles lack the kind of cultural capital and linguistic dominance that America and Britain possess today.

China and the USSR, in contrast, stand for and practice none of these things and their governments are embodiments of pure, unambiguous, communist evil. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is beneath the CCP. The CCP is clearly prepared to commit genocide on purpose. America would never stoop so low in the modern age. It is plainly unthinkable. The PRC today remains trapped in a primitive, 19th century mindset that Britain and America have since moved out of. The PRC is ironically no different than Britain and America were back then. It is literally waging a covert Opium War against the United States in the form of fentanyl smuggling via Canada and Mexico, killing millions of Americans in the process.

America's foreign policy in recent years is, at worst, a series of mistakes and blunders, and atrocities committed by American forces are either sporadic or otherwise unintentional. China's malign foreign policy and the atrocities committed in its name are entirely by design. We should focus on the present and not dwell on the distant past. China is the Evil Empire. America, while not exactly the unambiguous Good Guys, is the best we've got to counter China.

America is also the soft power capital of the world, followed by Britain. America gave us Star Wars, Superman, Cartoon Network, The Avengers, The Matrix, Facebook, YouTube, Google, and Twitter, the latter four for better or for worse, among countless other cultural exports we all know and love (or love to hate). The American and British Empires gave us the English language in all its beauty and glory. As a native English speaker of Asian descent, this is a matter of personal pride and identity for me. I think, in some ways, we should be grateful for American and British imperialism. It wasn't all bad. Chinese communist imperialism, on the other hand, is wholly and unambiguously evil. America is clearly the lesser evil here.

I'll take American imperialism over Chinese or Soviet imperialism any day of the week. Japan, Germany, and Taiwan are doing exceptionally well thanks to American imperialism. Ditto South Korea. All of these countries are prosperous, liberal democracies today thanks to American imperialism. Without America, the world would be a far more terrifying, dystopian, and authoritarian place than it already is. No other country in the world has the courage or the means to challenge Chinese communist totalitarian hegemony in the Indo-Pacific. If it takes American imperialism to liberate Hong Kong and destroy the CCP, than I wholeheartedly embrace it. If only the CIA was as potent as it once was. If only the CIA was directly involved in efforts to topple the CCP. If only. One can only dream, I suppose.

I think it would be awesome if Hong Kong and Taiwan were placed under U.S. protection, if not annexed outright as unincorporated insular areas a la Puerto Rico.

TL;DR: Pax Americana is something I can get behind. I like how things used to be back in the 90s and 00s when China was less of a threat than it is today and life was a lot more carefree than it is today.

I suppose I should elaborate further on my thoughts about the British Empire given that I'm a citizen of a former British colony and a resident of two former colonies as well as the UK itself. Unfortunately, British imperialism isn't the topic of the thread. Britain and America tend to go hand in hand in so many ways. The two countries are fascinating in so many ways and it's sad that so many Brits and Americans take their own heritage and freedoms for granted these days.

[Adamede]

In terms of foreign policy? Yes. That is exactly what we are saying.

Although “just as immoral” might be a better way to phrase that.

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

Lol

[Atheris]

In terms of foreign policy? Yes. That is exactly what we are saying.

Although “just as immoral” might be a better way to phrase that.

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

Oh noes! A generic America thread! What am I to do?

I could care less about the kind of imperial superpower America used to be in centuries past, or how racist, sexist, and borderline genocidal it once was, or that it used to practice slavery or subjugate the natives of the Philippines or install right-wing, neoliberal dictatorships across the developing world during the Cold War, or that it made the grave mistake of invading Iraq and toppling Gaddafi with no exit strategy.

I care about what America stands and fights for today. America today is no longer fundamentally or institutionally racist with the sole exception of Democrat-supported affirmative action against whites, Asians, men, and Jews. It no longer practices slavery today. Unlike China and the former USSR, liberal democracy is alive and well in America and the country remains an inspiration and a beacon of hope for countless millions of people around the world, particularly in places such as Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Republicans, and, to a lesser extent, Democrats, are finally beginning to acknowledge many of their past foreign policy mistakes and blunders, particularly with respect to the PRC.

The American government may be far from perfect and the neoliberal, big business model has clearly failed, but it's the thought that counts. Yes, the CIA toppled democratically elected leaders and installed dictatorships. Yes, America practiced slavery once upon a time. Yes, Native Americans were ethnically cleansed and corralled into concentration camps known as reservations, where their children were raped, beaten, and "re-educated" as the Uighurs are today in Xinjiang.

But America also stands for freedom, democracy, and the rule of law. It also represents a continuation and extension of an English and British legal and political, common law tradition that dates back to the Magna Carta in the 13th century and possibly even earlier. The Anglo-Saxon cultural and imperial legacy is one the whole world should be grateful for. Not even the former empires of France, Germany, Spain, or Italy can hope to come close. Those empires were far more savage and brutal compared to the British and American Empires, and their metropoles lack the kind of cultural capital and linguistic dominance that America and Britain possess today.

China and the USSR, in contrast, stand for and practice none of these things and their governments are embodiments of pure, unambiguous, communist evil. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is beneath the CCP. The CCP is clearly prepared to commit genocide on purpose. America would never stoop so low in the modern age. It is plainly unthinkable. The PRC today remains trapped in a primitive, 19th century mindset that Britain and America have since moved out of. The PRC is ironically no different than Britain and America were back then. It is literally waging a covert Opium War against the United States in the form of fentanyl smuggling via Canada and Mexico, killing millions of Americans in the process.

America's foreign policy in recent years is, at worst, a series of mistakes and blunders, and atrocities committed by American forces are either sporadic or otherwise unintentional. China's malign foreign policy and the atrocities committed in its name are entirely by design. We should focus on the present and not dwell on the distant past. China is the Evil Empire. America, while not exactly the unambiguous Good Guys, is the best we've got to counter China.

America is also the soft power capital of the world, followed by Britain. America gave us Star Wars, Superman, Cartoon Network, The Avengers, The Matrix, Facebook, YouTube, Google, and Twitter, the latter four for better or for worse, among countless other cultural exports we all know and love (or love to hate). The American and British Empires gave us the English language in all its beauty and glory. As a native English speaker of Asian descent, this is a matter of personal pride and identity for me. I think, in some ways, we should be grateful for American and British imperialism. It wasn't all bad. Chinese communist imperialism, on the other hand, is wholly and unambiguously evil. America is clearly the lesser evil here.

I'll take American imperialism over Chinese or Soviet imperialism any day of the week. Japan, Germany, and Taiwan are doing exceptionally well thanks to American imperialism. Ditto South Korea. All of these countries are prosperous, liberal democracies today thanks to American imperialism. Without America, the world would be a far more terrifying, dystopian, and authoritarian place than it already is. No other country in the world has the courage or the means to challenge Chinese communist totalitarian hegemony in the Indo-Pacific. If it takes American imperialism to liberate Hong Kong and destroy the CCP, than I wholeheartedly embrace it. If only the CIA was as potent as it once was. If only the CIA was directly involved in efforts to topple the CCP. If only. One can only dream, I suppose.

I think it would be awesome if Hong Kong and Taiwan were placed under U.S. protection, if not annexed outright as unincorporated insular areas a la Puerto Rico.

TL;DR: Pax Americana is something I can get behind. I like how things used to be back in the 90s and 00s when China was less of a threat than it is today and life was a lot more carefree than it is today.

I suppose I should elaborate further on my thoughts about the British Empire given that I'm a citizen of a former British colony and a resident of two former colonies as well as the UK itself. Unfortunately, British imperialism isn't the topic of the thread. Britain and America tend to go hand in hand in so many ways. The two countries are fascinating in so many ways and it's sad that so many Brits and Americans take their own heritage and freedoms for granted these days.

I do agree with quite a bit of what you said here. While America has done atrocious things in the past, so has every other country; the US does try to amend its past wrongs. I personally am not for colonialism, but if we could topple the CCP without screwing up the fabric of international politics, let's do it! I would rather HK and Taiwan be independent nations, though, instead of being colonies of another, larger nation, even the US. If they want to be independent allies of the US, that's awesome. Maybe if the US would recognize HK, things would get interesting, hopefully in a good way.

And the US is not the worst country in the world. Its government is a hot mess right now, but it could be so much more terrible.

[Prozitia]

The United States has been the greatest threat to our world since it replaced the British, and if China continues it will replace the US. Under capitalism, strong countries are always oppressors.

I have to disagree with you. The Soviet Union was completely communist and still oppressed.

Completely communist? Big doubt, even by Marxist-Leninist standards.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Oh noes! A generic America thread! What am I to do?

I could care less about the kind of imperial superpower America used to be in centuries past, or how racist, sexist, and borderline genocidal it once was, or that it used to practice slavery or subjugate the natives of the Philippines or install right-wing, neoliberal dictatorships across the developing world during the Cold War, or that it made the grave mistake of invading Iraq and toppling Gaddafi with no exit strategy.

I care about what America stands and fights for today. America today is no longer fundamentally or institutionally racist with the sole exception of Democrat-supported affirmative action against whites, Asians, men, and Jews. It no longer practices slavery today. Unlike China and the former USSR, liberal democracy is alive and well in America and the country remains an inspiration and a beacon of hope for countless millions of people around the world, particularly in places such as Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Republicans, and, to a lesser extent, Democrats, are finally beginning to acknowledge many of their past foreign policy mistakes and blunders, particularly with respect to the PRC.

The American government may be far from perfect and the neoliberal, big business model has clearly failed, but it's the thought that counts. Yes, the CIA toppled democratically elected leaders and installed dictatorships. Yes, America practiced slavery once upon a time. Yes, Native Americans were ethnically cleansed and corralled into concentration camps known as reservations, where their children were raped, beaten, and "re-educated" as the Uighurs are today in Xinjiang.

But America also stands for freedom, democracy, and the rule of law. It also represents a continuation and extension of an English and British legal and political, common law tradition that dates back to the Magna Carta in the 13th century and possibly even earlier. The Anglo-Saxon cultural and imperial legacy is one the whole world should be grateful for. Not even the former empires of France, Germany, Spain, or Italy can hope to come close. Those empires were far more savage and brutal compared to the British and American Empires, and their metropoles lack the kind of cultural capital and linguistic dominance that America and Britain possess today.

China and the USSR, in contrast, stand for and practice none of these things and their governments are embodiments of pure, unambiguous, communist evil. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is beneath the CCP. The CCP is clearly prepared to commit genocide on purpose. America would never stoop so low in the modern age. It is plainly unthinkable. The PRC today remains trapped in a primitive, 19th century mindset that Britain and America have since moved out of. The PRC is ironically no different than Britain and America were back then. It is literally waging a covert Opium War against the United States in the form of fentanyl smuggling via Canada and Mexico, killing millions of Americans in the process.

America's foreign policy in recent years is, at worst, a series of mistakes and blunders, and atrocities committed by American forces are either sporadic or otherwise unintentional. China's malign foreign policy and the atrocities committed in its name are entirely by design. We should focus on the present and not dwell on the distant past. China is the Evil Empire. America, while not exactly the unambiguous Good Guys, is the best we've got to counter China.

America is also the soft power capital of the world, followed by Britain. America gave us Star Wars, Superman, Cartoon Network, The Avengers, The Matrix, Facebook, YouTube, Google, and Twitter, the latter four for better or for worse, among countless other cultural exports we all know and love (or love to hate). The American and British Empires gave us the English language in all its beauty and glory. As a native English speaker of Asian descent, this is a matter of personal pride and identity for me. I think, in some ways, we should be grateful for American and British imperialism. It wasn't all bad. Chinese communist imperialism, on the other hand, is wholly and unambiguously evil. America is clearly the lesser evil here.

I'll take American imperialism over Chinese or Soviet imperialism any day of the week. Japan, Germany, and Taiwan are doing exceptionally well thanks to American imperialism. Ditto South Korea. All of these countries are prosperous, liberal democracies today thanks to American imperialism. Without America, the world would be a far more terrifying, dystopian, and authoritarian place than it already is. No other country in the world has the courage or the means to challenge Chinese communist totalitarian hegemony in the Indo-Pacific. If it takes American imperialism to liberate Hong Kong and destroy the CCP, than I wholeheartedly embrace it. If only the CIA was as potent as it once was. If only the CIA was directly involved in efforts to topple the CCP. If only. One can only dream, I suppose.

I think it would be awesome if Hong Kong and Taiwan were placed under U.S. protection, if not annexed outright as unincorporated insular areas a la Puerto Rico.

TL;DR: Pax Americana is something I can get behind. I like how things used to be back in the 90s and 00s when China was less of a threat than it is today and life was a lot more carefree than it is today.

I suppose I should elaborate further on my thoughts about the British Empire given that I'm a citizen of a former British colony and a resident of two former colonies as well as the UK itself. Unfortunately, British imperialism isn't the topic of the thread. Britain and America tend to go hand in hand in so many ways. The two countries are fascinating in so many ways and it's sad that so many Brits and Americans take their own heritage and freedoms for granted these days.

I do agree with quite a bit of what you said here. While America has done atrocious things in the past, so has every other country; the US does try to amend its past wrongs. I personally am not for colonialism, but if we could topple the CCP without screwing up the fabric of international politics, let's do it! I would rather HK and Taiwan be independent nations, though, instead of being colonies of another, larger nation, even the US. If they want to be independent allies of the US, that's awesome. Maybe if the US would recognize HK, things would get interesting, hopefully in a good way.

And the US is not the worst country in the world. Its government is a hot mess right now, but it could be so much more terrible.

Hong Kong Independence is my first choice. But failing that, becoming a protectorate of the United States is second-best. We don't have to become a full-blown colony, let alone an incorporated U.S. state with open and porous domestic borders like Hawaii or Alaska. I wouldn't want Americans from the North American Mainland to freely infect Hong Kong in the middle of a deadly pandemic unless Hong Kong closes its state borders to the rest of the U.S. just like my home state of Sarawak has practically sealed itself off from the rest of Malaysia and is now faring much better than the rest of that country. I would rather Hong Kong maintain its autonomy and full control over its borders and internal affairs rather than be fully subsumed into the metropole of a larger country.

[Federal Asia]

American hegemony is preferable to whatever hellhole the Chinese will throw us in.

Preferable to whom?

[West Leas Oros 2]

American hegemony is preferable to whatever hellhole the Chinese will throw us in.

Preferable to whom?

Unlike you, most people here aren't keen on what China is doing right now.

[Federal Asia]

No, in diplomacy, no country is as immoral as the United States.America is a shameless bastard. Compared with it, even the African warlords is a gentleman.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.

What's so funny about it. Only America and Israel are able to get away with war crimes or terrorism

[Federal Asia]

Preferable to whom?

Unlike you, most people here aren't keen on what China is doing right now.

Most people here are white and american. Didn't you consider that as a factor?

[Rusozak]

Unlike you, most people here aren't keen on what China is doing right now.

Most people here are white and american. Didn't you consider that as a factor?

Not really, no. Human rights abuses tend to upset people regardless of nationality.

[Adamede]

Unlike you, most people here aren't keen on what China is doing right now.

Most people here are white and american. Didn't you consider that as a factor?

Most of China’s neighbors aren’t too keen on them getting more powerful.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Unlike you, most people here aren't keen on what China is doing right now.

Most people here are white and american. Didn't you consider that as a factor?

Yes yes, this isn't my first time on the internet. I know we're all stupid amerikkkan kkkrackkkers, not extra smart enemies of Western Imperialism like you.

[Federal Asia]

Most people here are white and american. Didn't you consider that as a factor?

Not really, no. Human rights abuses tend to upset people regardless of nationality.

False. American war crimes don't change the majority of american voters