American Politics I: It's All Applesauce

[Cedoria]

Dude, you just witnessed a freaking MAGA coup attempt and you still on about the violence of the left?
Good to know you care more about things that might hypothetically happen then things that are actually happening in the real world.

In the last year both sides have exhibited violence. ‘Thing is, the left did it all summer, fall, and winter. The right started day one today. I mean as far as violent type shenanigans.

If you think the right just started violence as a means of political expression today, you’ve been sleeping under a rock.

[Kubra]

"U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe has been in Congress 34 years and in politics more than 50. As mayor of Tulsa, he once had garbage dumped on his lawn by angry residents.

But it’s unlikely anything matched what he experienced Wednesday when the U.S. Capitol was stormed by people apparently intent on keeping President Donald Trump in office.

“I’d say there were at least 1,000 people in the building,” Inhofe said by telephone Wednesday evening.

Inhofe hedged on who he thought might be to blame for what happened, but he allowed that Trump did not do enough to stop it.

“He’s only put out one statement that I’m aware of,” Inhofe said. “This was really a riot. He should have shown more disdain for the rioters. I don’t want to say he should have apologized — that’s not exactly accurate — but he should have expressed more disdain.”

Instead, Trump directed his disdain toward Vice President Mike Pence, who refused to do what Trump wanted him to do — illegally refuse to accept the final election results in his role as Senate president.

By doing so, he may have alienated one of his most steadfast allies.

“I’ve known Mike Pence forever,” Inhofe said Tuesday night. “I’ve never seen Pence as angry as he was today.

“I had a long conversation with him,” said Inhofe. “He said, ‘After all the things I’ve done for (Trump).’”

Aside from Wednesday’s attempted takeover of the Capitol, the past few days have been difficult for Inhofe because he refused to go along with protesting the Electoral College results.

“We’ve had calls. We’ve had threats. … I have many very, very close friends mad at me, when all I’m doing is upholding my oath,” Inhofe said.

He and many other conservatives say the law and the Constitution do not give Congress the authority to challenge electoral votes certified by the various states and the District of Columbia.

He also doesn’t think it’s something Republicans should be doing.

“Republicans have always been for states’ rights,” Inhofe said. “Democrats are the ones who always tried to nationalize elections.”

Inhofe said he never felt in danger Wednesday, but he said he was irritated to see someone rifling through his desk while he watched on television.

“They broke in on the House side and were coming toward (the Senate)” when senators were led outside to a nearby office building — although Inhofe broke away to go to his own office.

“My daughter is in town,” he said. “I didn’t want to leave her alone.”

Thanks for the quote.

These fellas think they embody the will of the people, and it's not as if independence movements hold referendums to decide whether or not to revolt.

On the first point: I think I will win a million pounds. I am certainly mistaken, as they are -- the people have expressed their will (for Biden) and all claims of voter fraud have been found to lack foundation.

The second point is true. Though it's worth noting how movements are met by the people they claim they represent. Are the embraced, voted for, or are they viewed with embarrassment and deserted by their former supporters.

The response to this attempted coup has been pretty overwhelming and not in a positive way, so I still say it's not comparable.

I ain't saying they don't lack foundation, or that there's anything wrong with most independence movements, only that this shit is kinda blurry and the comparison given here just ain't the best.
Really, it's enough to say the voter fraud allegations are kind of ridiculous and it's ridiculous that believe wholeheartedly believe them up to the point of storming the capitol.

[Kowani]

Lin Wood keeps the faith

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

In the last year both sides have exhibited violence. ‘Thing is, the left did it all summer, fall, and winter. The right started day one today. I mean as far as violent type shenanigans.

If you think the right just started violence as a means of political expression today, you’ve been sleeping under a rock.

Both sides do it all the time when they can get away with that.

[Kowani]

Trump did keep one of his promises!
Ran the country and his party just like he did his businesses

Hey, that's not fair, the US hasn't gone bankrupt yet, and our cuts of steak are the absolute best.

well, one of those is impossible
wouldn't know about the steaks, i don't eat those

[Nejii]

In the last year both sides have exhibited violence. ‘Thing is, the left did it all summer, fall, and winter. The right started day one today. I mean as far as violent type shenanigans.

If you think the right just started violence as a means of political expression today, you’ve been sleeping under a rock.

Provide evidence within the last 4-6 years to prove that.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

If you think the right just started violence as a means of political expression today, you’ve been sleeping under a rock.

Provide evidence within the last 4-6 years to prove that.

In Poland? Russia?

Power is the ability to harm people and get away with it.

[Xanthal]

The problem that many people who claim to be libertarians have is consistency. You've got to accept the people you don't like being as free as the people you do like.

Exactly.

+1. I'm not a libertarian (at all) but I respect the ideology for those who truly own it and apply its values equitably.

[Nejii]

Provide evidence within the last 4-6 years to prove that.

In Poland? Russia?

Power is the ability to harm people and get away with it.

Okay see — I was talking the USA.

[Vassenor]

If you think the right just started violence as a means of political expression today, you’ve been sleeping under a rock.

Provide evidence within the last 4-6 years to prove that.

Charlottesville.

[Vassenor]

In Poland? Russia?

Power is the ability to harm people and get away with it.

Okay see — I was talking the USA.

Charlottesville.

[Xanthal]

Lin Wood keeps the faith

What an ass. At least TDW will love him for another day.

[Esternial]

It’s hard being a centrist. We try to be the bridging element but both opposing sides are too bunkered down and we get caught in the crossfire.

Now you know how hard it is to use reason. You will be torn alive by both sides.

Waving around a heightened sense of superiority won't help either side listen to what you have to say, though.

That's kind of the problem, everyone sees themselves as the sole proprietor of reason.

[Kowani]

Now you know how hard it is to use reason. You will be torn alive by both sides.

Waving around a heightened sense of superiority won't help either side listen to what you have to say, though.

That's kind of the problem, everyone sees themselves as the sole proprietor of reason.

it's hard not to be, when i'm right all the time

[Vassenor]

On January 20, 2017, the day of Trump's inauguration, police kettled 217 anti-Trump protesters in the freezing cold and arrested them after sixteen hours.

Prosecutors then tried to put them in prison for 70+ years, on the accusation that all of them collectively broke a window.

When can we expect this treatment for yesterday's rioters?

[Nejii]

Now you know how hard it is to use reason. You will be torn alive by both sides.

Waving around a heightened sense of superiority won't help either side listen to what you have to say, though.

That's kind of the problem, everyone sees themselves as the sole proprietor of reason.

Don’t accuse me of having a superiority complex.

I have an open mind and will listen to both sides of any argument. I make my decision on what I believe to be morally and-or practically correct (or choose between the two) and support that argument. Hence my ability to actually be a more centrist individual. I acknowledge that the left and right both have their merits. The trick is each side in modern American politics loathes the other.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Now you know how hard it is to use reason. You will be torn alive by both sides.

Waving around a heightened sense of superiority won't help either side listen to what you have to say, though.

That's kind of the problem, everyone sees themselves as the sole proprietor of reason.

I’m just not a moralist. It is hard to make me mad. Hence I don’t understand why both sides are so mad.

[Nejii]

Okay see — I was talking the USA.

Charlottesville.

Today and Charlottesville... alright, that’s two so far.

[Nejii]

Wikipedia entry for the January 6th coup. (As I call it.)

[Xanthal]

Now you know how hard it is to use reason. You will be torn alive by both sides.

Waving around a heightened sense of superiority won't help either side listen to what you have to say, though.

That's kind of the problem, everyone sees themselves as the sole proprietor of reason.

I've been saying this in one form or another for most of my adult life. If you want to have a functioning pluralistic society, you have to accept that someone can be intelligent, informed, and well-intentioned and still disagree with you. If the default assumption of one's opposition is that they are stupid, ignorant, and/or evil, authoritarian sentiment will inevitably flourish.

[Kowani]

Wikipedia entry for the January 6th coup. (As I call it.)

I'm disappointed this didn't make it in

[Cultural Posadism]

It just dawned on me... not only was this a Trump-incited coup attempt, but it was also an actual neo-nazi terrorist attack. With bombs.

Why neo-nazi? Because a lot of the people who got photographed or recorded storming the Capitol and vandalizing it were either known nazis (like Baked Alaska) or wearing nazi paraphernalia (like the guy with Holocaust memes on his clothing).

Isn't that fun?

[Xanthal]

On January 20, 2017, the day of Trump's inauguration, police kettled 217 anti-Trump protesters in the freezing cold and arrested them after sixteen hours.

Prosecutors then tried to put them in prison for 70+ years, on the accusation that all of them collectively broke a window.

When can we expect this treatment for yesterday's rioters?

I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me.

[Nejii]

Waving around a heightened sense of superiority won't help either side listen to what you have to say, though.

That's kind of the problem, everyone sees themselves as the sole proprietor of reason.

I've been saying this in one form or another for most of my adult life. If you want to have a functioning pluralistic society, you have to accept that someone can be intelligent, informed, and well-intentioned and still disagree with you. If the default assumption of one's opposition is that they are stupid, ignorant, and/or evil, authoritarian sentiment will inevitably flourish.

This is an ideal take.

[Cultural Posadism]

On January 20, 2017, the day of Trump's inauguration, police kettled 217 anti-Trump protesters in the freezing cold and arrested them after sixteen hours.

Prosecutors then tried to put them in prison for 70+ years, on the accusation that all of them collectively broke a window.

When can we expect this treatment for yesterday's rioters?

Oh yeah, remember when Republicans thought anyone even remotely associated with minor acts of vandalism deserved to be treated like a war criminal who'd lost a war?