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American Politics I: It's All Applesauce

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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Untecna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:23 am

I was gone. For a day. And this thread is almost over?

[I should go offline more]
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:23 am

Salus Maior wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:To be fair, the woman in question has argued often and loudly that BLM protesters should be killed.


Isn't this sort of justification on par with "but he was a drug dealer/abused his kids/etc."?

Just because they're a shitty person doesn't justify being being shot while unarmed.


I do agree with you. I think I'm empathetic, not sympathetic, in part because she probably genuinely believed that she was on the right side of history, saving America from some dark force.

You can think back to any cult or something of the sort, where people die doing heinous things because in their mind they find it impossible to believe that they might just be completely mental.
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:23 am

Untecna wrote:I was gone. For a day. And this thread is almost over?

[I should go offline more]

A coup attempt happened yesterday that’s why

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:24 am

Vassenor wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Isn't this sort of justification on par with "but he was a drug dealer/abused his kids/etc."?

Just because they're a shitty person doesn't justify being being shot while unarmed.


Who's justified the shooting?

And most of the "BLM / ACAB hypocrisy" has been "why don't you treat our protests with the same kid gloves you used here".


I wouldn't be a fan of BLM overtaking government institutions either.

The Trumpists taking over the Capitol should have never happened. The Guard should have been posted.
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”I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”- Faramir, The Two Towers

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:24 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:For all my denunciations of Trump and his violent, hardcore supporters, I still don't consider them to be literal fascists or white supremacists. Just a bunch of badly-dressed 1776 QAnon LARPers as some have suggested. Trump is more of a run-of-the-mill, wannabe corrupt dictator devoid of ideology than any kind of actual fascist or communist demagogue unlike Hitler or Stalin. He's a narcissistic demagogue, but he's no fascist.

He has far more in common with Najib Razak, our beloved former Prime Minister of Malaysia who we miraculously voted out of office along with the corrupt, racist, ruling party of over 60 years due to record-high voter turnout in the face of actual, widespread, systematic election fraud and gerrymandering and a slew of newly-passed, draconian laws specifically designed to quash political dissent and silence any discussion of the 1MDB corruption scandal he was implicated in.

I'm still right about one thing. American democracy continues to endure despite the coup attempt. May American exceptionalism prevail for the next 10,000 years.

I ask again what exactly do you like about trump. You claimed he is now nothing but a whiner, but all he has been doing during his presidency is whine. Hell he was whining when he won the election, let alone when he lost this one.
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Untecna
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Untecna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
Untecna wrote:I was gone. For a day. And this thread is almost over?

[I should go offline more]

A coup attempt happened yesterday that’s why

I know that, Lumen. I was here. But holy crap, 486 pages?
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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:25 am

Major-Tom wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Its plausible they could however in many other places splitting the vote would help Democrats.


In most cases, yes, but politics isn't a zero sum game. If a truly radicalized, let's call it a "Patriot Party" takes off, which I'm beginning to think it will, it will cause a lot of hurt and a lot of suffering. I don't care to see that just because it'll help my own party and my own career.


I don't disagree that a "Patriot Party" would cause a lot of hurt and suffering although I would contend the most hurt and suffering would still come from the establishment, from the Romneys and Bidens of the world. Statistically, more Americans die from not being able to afford insulin and Epipens that cost 5000 times their production costs, from being evicted and freezing to death, from overdosing on drugs as a direct result of national drug policy, and from suicide* than people who end up getting shot up or blown up by a "patriot."

*if people don't have a living wage, food and housing security, and health care, all other mental health policies amount to jack shit
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:25 am

So, what happened finally? Did Congress certify?
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Page
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Postby Page » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:25 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:So, what happened finally? Did Congress certify?


Yes, at 4:30am Eastern all 50 states were certified and they adjourned.
I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

"If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." - Noam Chomsky

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:25 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:So, what happened finally? Did Congress certify?

Yes, they where forced into 2 hour discussion for Pennsylvania, but all other states had no senators object.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:26 am

Vassenor wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Isn't this sort of justification on par with "but he was a drug dealer/abused his kids/etc."?

Just because they're a shitty person doesn't justify being being shot while unarmed.


Who's justified the shooting?

And most of the "BLM / ACAB hypocrisy" has been "why don't you treat our protests with the same kid gloves you used here".


How the evacuation of the Capitol was handled is how all protests that go wrong should be handled. All things considered it was pretty even-handed, not handled with "kids gloves"

It just further contrasts the heavy fist that came down on BLM protestors, but the solution isn't to call for more violent arrests against the MAGA crowd.
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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Untecna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:26 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:So, what happened finally? Did Congress certify?

???
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:26 am

Page wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
In most cases, yes, but politics isn't a zero sum game. If a truly radicalized, let's call it a "Patriot Party" takes off, which I'm beginning to think it will, it will cause a lot of hurt and a lot of suffering. I don't care to see that just because it'll help my own party and my own career.


I don't disagree that a "Patriot Party" would cause a lot of hurt and suffering although I would contend the most hurt and suffering would still come from the establishment, from the Romneys and Bidens of the world. Statistically, more Americans die from not being able to afford insulin and Epipens that cost 5000 times their production costs, from being evicted and freezing to death, from overdosing on drugs as a direct result of national drug policy, and from suicide* than people who end up getting shot up or blown up by a "patriot."

*if people don't have a living wage, food and housing security, and health care, all other mental health policies amount to jack shit


Y'know, I don't see a "Patriot Party" working to provide a framework for working-class Americans to live comfortably. Couple that with the violence and demonizing of all those different than them, I guess we could call it double trouble?
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New yugoslavaia
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:26 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:For all my denunciations of Trump and his violent, hardcore supporters, I still don't consider them to be literal fascists or white supremacists. Just a bunch of badly-dressed 1776 QAnon LARPers as some have suggested. Trump is more of a run-of-the-mill, wannabe corrupt dictator devoid of ideology than any kind of actual fascist or communist demagogue unlike Hitler or Stalin. He's a narcissistic demagogue, but he's no fascist.

He has far more in common with Najib Razak, our beloved former Prime Minister of Malaysia who we miraculously voted out of office along with the corrupt, racist, ruling party of over 60 years due to record-high voter turnout in the face of actual, widespread, systematic election fraud and gerrymandering and a slew of newly-passed, draconian laws specifically designed to quash political dissent and silence any discussion of the 1MDB corruption scandal he was implicated in.

I'm still right about one thing. American democracy continues to endure despite the coup attempt. May American exceptionalism prevail for the next 10,000 years.

I ask again what exactly do you like about trump. You claimed he is now nothing but a whiner, but all he has been doing during his presidency is whine. Hell he was whining when he won the election, let alone when he lost this one.


And what makes America "exceptional?"
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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:26 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:So, what happened finally? Did Congress certify?

Yes they did and a number of congressmembers voted against certification

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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:27 am

New yugoslavaia wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:I ask again what exactly do you like about trump. You claimed he is now nothing but a whiner, but all he has been doing during his presidency is whine. Hell he was whining when he won the election, let alone when he lost this one.


And what makes America "exceptional?"


We're the World Champions of the Super Bowl, every year. I mean, c'mon.
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Valrifell
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:27 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:So, what happened finally? Did Congress certify?

Yes, they where forced into 2 hour discussion for Pennsylvania, but all other states had no senators object.


Sen. Hawley objected but immediately conceded his time, right? Essentially going "I think there was fraud, no I'm not going to explain myself, let me waste 2 hrs of everyone's time"
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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:27 am

Major-Tom wrote:
Page wrote:
I don't disagree that a "Patriot Party" would cause a lot of hurt and suffering although I would contend the most hurt and suffering would still come from the establishment, from the Romneys and Bidens of the world. Statistically, more Americans die from not being able to afford insulin and Epipens that cost 5000 times their production costs, from being evicted and freezing to death, from overdosing on drugs as a direct result of national drug policy, and from suicide* than people who end up getting shot up or blown up by a "patriot."

*if people don't have a living wage, food and housing security, and health care, all other mental health policies amount to jack shit


Y'know, I don't see a "Patriot Party" working to provide a framework for working-class Americans to live comfortably. Couple that with the violence and demonizing of all those different than them, I guess we could call it double trouble?


Yeah, I guess double trouble works.
I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

"If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." - Noam Chomsky

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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:27 am

Major-Tom wrote:
New yugoslavaia wrote:
And what makes America "exceptional?"


We're the World Champions of the Super Bowl, every year. I mean, c'mon.


The US has also never lost a World Series.
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

Valrifell wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
We're the World Champions of the Super Bowl, every year. I mean, c'mon.


The US has also never lost a World Series.


That too, and don't even think about forgetting Nascar.

Nascar is a guilty pleasure of mine, don't hurt me.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

Major-Tom wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Virginia is a good test as it mirrors the country demographically.

Let them start the third party. A split in the Republican party would help Democrats.


Seeing as Trump left office w 90% GOP support, it is safe to assume it would destroy the GOP and leave an even more radical party in its' place that'll have us libs smiling over Mitch McConnell in the same way libs now smile over Romney.

I, frankly, don't want to see it. What happens if they win the Governorship of even one state? It'll be a nightmare.


Most people appreciate Romney because he's not...you know...Treasonous? Even if you don't like his positions on things, he didn't kowtow to Trump and actually is consistent in what he believes.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist.

”I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”- Faramir, The Two Towers

“No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it. The real conflict is the inner conflict. Beyond armies of occupation and the hecatombs of extermination camps, there are two irreconcilable enemies in the depth of every soul: good and evil, sin and love. And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?”
~ St. Maximilian Kolbe

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58771
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

Major-Tom wrote:
Page wrote:
I don't disagree that a "Patriot Party" would cause a lot of hurt and suffering although I would contend the most hurt and suffering would still come from the establishment, from the Romneys and Bidens of the world. Statistically, more Americans die from not being able to afford insulin and Epipens that cost 5000 times their production costs, from being evicted and freezing to death, from overdosing on drugs as a direct result of national drug policy, and from suicide* than people who end up getting shot up or blown up by a "patriot."

*if people don't have a living wage, food and housing security, and health care, all other mental health policies amount to jack shit


Y'know, I don't see a "Patriot Party" working to provide a framework for working-class Americans to live comfortably. Couple that with the violence and demonizing of all those different than them, I guess we could call it double trouble?

The prospect of a Qanon candidate for statewide office in a red or competitive state is truly frightening.

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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Untecna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:29 am

Valrifell wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
We're the World Champions of the Super Bowl, every year. I mean, c'mon.


The US has also never lost a World Series.

We haven't lost any NBA games yet?
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:29 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Seeing as Trump left office w 90% GOP support, it is safe to assume it would destroy the GOP and leave an even more radical party in its' place that'll have us libs smiling over Mitch McConnell in the same way libs now smile over Romney.

I, frankly, don't want to see it. What happens if they win the Governorship of even one state? It'll be a nightmare.


Most people appreciate Romney because he's not...you know...Treasonous? Even if you don't like his positions on things, he didn't kowtow to Trump and actually is consistent in what he believes.


Right, I understand that, and I don't dislike Romney the way I do many of his colleagues. But, even then, I imagine in five years we'll have Pod Save America types glossing over McConnell's ruinous legacy saying "Well, remember when he stood up to that Trump guy blah blah blah"
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Posts: 199057
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:31 am

Valrifell wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Yes, they where forced into 2 hour discussion for Pennsylvania, but all other states had no senators object.


Sen. Hawley objected but immediately conceded his time, right? Essentially going "I think there was fraud, no I'm not going to explain myself, let me waste 2 hrs of everyone's time"


That was quite obvious. But Hawley is a cunt. What can be expected? So Biden was certified. Good.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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