Muslims and Christians, how can we improve relations?

[Resilient Acceleration]

My point is that a society tolerant of each other's religion doesn't necessarily mean toleration for everyone. That is, moderate Islam is not a hippie liberal belief, but it is more desireable–and far more realistic–than the alternative. In an ideal world, everyone would be equally protected, but in terms of nation-building based on existing cultures and belief, having no laws that criminalizes homosexuality is already pushing it. Further liberalization is possible, but it won't be abrupt, definitely not in the next 10 years.

Moderate Islam can still be hostile towards Christianity though, while Sufism, even if it can be considered "extreme" on Western standards, is the most Christian-friendly form of Islam even if it doesn't support secularism as a matter of principle.

Again, we're talking different things here, you are talking about liberalization, I'm talking about improving Christian-Muslim relations.

Improving Christian-Muslim relation inevitably requires liberalization, and that needs an effective and realistic solution that can be accepted on a mass scale, preferrably with examples of succesful widespread implementation. The point of Islamic moderation is to shift the Overton window to a place conducive enough for a multireligious society to function. The more hardline a society is, the more likely they will conduct religious pogroms, sectarian riots, and the harder it is to fix. It is no wonder that the father of modern Indonesian secularism, who pretty much healed the sectarian civil wars on the outer isles, is a highly religious moderate cleric of all people.

[Federal Asia]

Improving Christian-Muslim relation inevitably requires liberalization

Russian and Syrian Christians beg to differ.

[Adamede]

Wasathiyah Islam is arguably also a pretty good model to go as it advocates moderation, pluralism, and secularism, though in practice it heavily relies on political power to sideline dissidents hardliners. Obviously they are still immensely homophobic, but tbh I don't see much hope on Islam-LGBT relations in general beyond a "live and let live" attitude. The same goes for atheism. Still, having that kind of moderate Islam as the face of conservativism in society, as opposed to the present throw-the-gays-off-the-roof hardline Islam, is far more desirable and conducive to a functioning multireligious society.

I think the debate on how to improve Christian-Muslim relations has little to do with the debate on Secularism/LGBT.

Take the UAE for example, they are Wahhabis and their money is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Eastern Christians (in Syria for example) yet they are praised by the West only because they are tolerant towards White tourists.

Considering the figurative and literal heart of the modern Christian world is the West I’d say it does have a fair amount to do with LGBT and Atheists, especially as the West culturally liberalizes more and more.

[Federal Asia]

I think the debate on how to improve Christian-Muslim relations has little to do with the debate on Secularism/LGBT.

Take the UAE for example, they are Wahhabis and their money is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Eastern Christians (in Syria for example) yet they are praised by the West only because they are tolerant towards White tourists.

Considering the figurative and literal heart of the modern Christian world is the West I’d say it does have a fair amount to do with LGBT and Atheists, especially as the West culturally liberalizes more and more.

The West is mostly secular today so I wouldn't call it the "heart of Christianity"

[Adamede]

Considering the figurative and literal heart of the modern Christian world is the West I’d say it does have a fair amount to do with LGBT and Atheists, especially as the West culturally liberalizes more and more.

The West is mostly secular today so I wouldn't call it the "heart of Christianity"

The majorty of the population of the West is Christian, it where the majority of the major churches are located/headquartered, including the goddamed Pope.

If it’s not the heartland of the Christian faith, than nowhere is.

[Federal Asia]

The West is mostly secular today so I wouldn't call it the "heart of Christianity"

The majorty of the population of the West is Christian, it where the majority of the major churches are located/headquartered, including the goddamed Pope.

If it’s not the heartland of the Christian faith, than nowhere is.

You do know that the Pope doesn't represent all the Christians, do you?

[Adamede]

The majorty of the population of the West is Christian, it where the majority of the major churches are located/headquartered, including the goddamed Pope.

If it’s not the heartland of the Christian faith, than nowhere is.

You do know that the Pope doesn't represent all the Christians, do you?

I’m well aware. But you do realize the the Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination right? And then you also have the Protestant denominations, which collectively are the second largest, and both are the main branches of Western Christianity.

[Kexholm Karelia]

You do know that the Pope doesn't represent all the Christians, do you?

I’m well aware. But you do realize the the Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination right? And then you also have the Protestant denominations, which collectively are the second largest, and both are the main branches of Western Christianity.

Similarly, even though the largest Muslim populations exist in India, Indonesia, and Africa, the Middle East is still considered the center of Islam

[Romextly]

We can improve relations by getting rid of Wahhabism/Salafism (for Muslims) and Zionism (for Christians).

This is why I'm interested in Sufism and Christian Gnosticism, they both have the same message and I also think they have the same roots.

You know Zionism is a jewish belief right?

[Washington Resistance Army]

We can improve relations by getting rid of Wahhabism/Salafism (for Muslims) and Zionism (for Christians).

This is why I'm interested in Sufism and Christian Gnosticism, they both have the same message and I also think they have the same roots.

You know Zionism is a jewish belief right?

Plenty of Christians, especially Protestants, are Zionists as well.

[Salus Maior]

You know Zionism is a jewish belief right?

Plenty of Christians, especially Protestants, are Zionists as well.

Unfortunately.

[Adamede]

You know Zionism is a jewish belief right?

Plenty of Christians, especially Protestants, are Zionists as well.

Something something end times.

I’m afraid they’re going to be sorely disappointed.

[Nakena]

Plenty of Christians, especially Protestants, are Zionists as well.

Unfortunately.

Even some Catholics. Altough I am fairly certain it is mutually exclusive with the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

[Salus Maior]

Unfortunately.

Even some Catholics. Altough I am fairly certain it is mutually exclusive with the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Well, I would hope that American Catholics would not believe in Rapture theology.

But then again, American Catholics are notoriously bad at believing Catholic things so who knows.

[Adamede]

Unfortunately.

Even some Catholics. Altough I am fairly certain it is mutually exclusive with the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

I don’t think anyone of important want to reestablish the Crusader States.

[Saint Yosx]

Plenty of Christians, especially Protestants, are Zionists as well.

Unfortunately.

I think its just another label for nationalism, which nationalism is bad, patriotism is not.. you can tell the difference

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Even some Catholics. Altough I am fairly certain it is mutually exclusive with the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Well, I would hope that American Catholics would not believe in Rapture theology.

But then again, American Catholics are notoriously bad at believing Catholic things so who knows.

You're telling me. I knew Catholics who believed in young earth creationism despite the church saying "no, that's bullshit."

[The Alma Mater]

Well, I would hope that American Catholics would not believe in Rapture theology.

But then again, American Catholics are notoriously bad at believing Catholic things so who knows.

You're telling me. I knew Catholics who believed in young earth creationism despite the church saying "no, that's bullshit."

American Catholics routinely circumcise their children, despite the official doctrine being that circumcision is equivalent to rejecting the new convenant and an impediment for entering heaven.

[Heloin]

Taco Tuesdays.

[Salus Maior]

You're telling me. I knew Catholics who believed in young earth creationism despite the church saying "no, that's bullshit."

American Catholics routinely circumcise their children, despite the official doctrine being that circumcision is equivalent to rejecting the new convenant and an impediment for entering heaven.

That's a deceptive statement, considering circumcision is a universal thing here because of a weird medical tradition that's a holdover from the 19th century.

The hospitals circumcise children, and most people don't know any better than to refuse it.

[The Alma Mater]

American Catholics routinely circumcise their children, despite the official doctrine being that circumcision is equivalent to rejecting the new convenant and an impediment for entering heaven.

That's a deceptive statement, considering circumcision is a universal thing here because of a weird medical tradition that's a holdover from the 19th century.

The hospitals circumcise children, and most people don't know any better than to refuse it.

And it was declared a bad thing back in 1442.

Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.

Pretty clear.

[Pasong Tirad]

You're telling me. I knew Catholics who believed in young earth creationism despite the church saying "no, that's bullshit."

American Catholics routinely circumcise their children, despite the official doctrine being that circumcision is equivalent to rejecting the new convenant and an impediment for entering heaven.

Guess every single Catholic in the Philippines isn't going to heaven all because of a piece of flesh then.

[Federal Asia]

American Catholics routinely circumcise their children, despite the official doctrine being that circumcision is equivalent to rejecting the new convenant and an impediment for entering heaven.

Guess every single Catholic in the Philippines isn't going to heaven all because of a piece of flesh then.

I don't think circumsision is prohibited in Christianity, it's simply not required.

[Pasong Tirad]

Guess every single Catholic in the Philippines isn't going to heaven all because of a piece of flesh then.

I don't think circumsision is prohibited in Christianity, it's simply not required.

Alma Mater said so. Anyone know a way I can repent? Do I just need to do penance or do I have to grow back the flesh? Anyone know if it counts if the foreskin comes back via plastic surgery?

[Federal Asia]

I don't think circumsision is prohibited in Christianity, it's simply not required.

Alma Mater said so. Anyone know a way I can repent? Do I just need to do penance or do I have to grow back the flesh? Anyone know if it counts if the foreskin comes back via plastic surgery?

If that was the case, virtually all the Apostles would be in Hell