Muslims and Christians, how can we improve relations?

[Nakena]

Well Islam and Christianity consider themself to be the proper interpretation of the abrahamite faith. Altough Islam is even more insistive on that point. Originally Islam was perceived to be a heresy of christianity for that reason when it arose.

In this regard Judaism keeps to itself, but there its a tribal religion.

Would be great if all three kept to themselves. Insisting on ultimate truth and discrediting the other keeps adherents at odds constantly.

I agree.

Hence I said that stopping pointless interventions in the middle east and putting an end to islamic mass migration into the west would work a long way to diffuse tensions.

[Vetalia]

Focus on the fundamental truth that we both believe in the One God who was revealed to Abraham. I have to be honest and say that I do pray for the conversion of both Jews and Muslims to the fullness of Truth in the Christian faith but the fact is that they do worship the same God, even if their understanding of Him is imperfect.

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

No, it's absolutely essential we state our understanding of faith in the God of Abraham as a starting point to any discussion. Muslims believe this in regards to their religious beliefs as strongly as Christians...it lays out the basis for our differences and enables us to find common ground in the areas we can agree upon. Any waffling in regards to these key tenets of our respective faiths would rightfully be seen as a sign of unbelief.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

There is no problem that cannot be solved with education because ignorance is the main source of wars. They must surrender to the authority of the secular because we are the righteous in the leadership of science.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Would be great if all three kept to themselves. Insisting on ultimate truth and discrediting the other keeps adherents at odds constantly.

I agree.

Hence I said that stopping pointless interventions in the middle east and putting an end to islamic mass migration into the west would work a long way to diffuse tensions.

I think Muslims migration into the West is fine, as long as they don’t use their faith in unintended or violent ways.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

No, it's absolutely essential we state our understanding of faith in the God of Abraham as a starting point to any discussion. Muslims believe this in regards to their religious beliefs as strongly as Christians...it lays out the basis for our differences and enables us to find common ground in the areas we can agree upon. Any waffling in regards to these key tenets of our respective faiths would rightfully be seen as a sign of unbelief.

Not really, no. It essentially opens up interactions on a bad foot. As an outsider, ultimate truth is not something I’d ascribe to Abrahmic religions. Or any religion for that matter. Refraining from acting superior in faith would take everyone a long way but I doubt either Christians or Muslims will stop. So no common ground will be achieved.

[Salus Maior]

There is no problem that cannot be solved with education because ignorance is the main source of wars. They must surrender to the authority of the secular because we are the righteous in the leadership of science.

We're pretty good with science, thanks.

[Nakena]

I think Muslims migration into the West is fine, as long as they don’t use their faith in unintended or violent ways.

Mass Migration (like we're talking millions of people here not a few thousend) isn't because its usually not the educated, secularized people from the cities who come and who are somewhat compatible to european culture but the uneducated masses of the lower castes who get quickly alienated in Europe and cling all the more to their religious ethos and start forming an undercaste which provides an reservoir for crime, instability and ultimatively an radical islamist revolutionary potential. See Lebanon post cairo agreement.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I think Muslims migration into the West is fine, as long as they don’t use their faith in unintended or violent ways.

Mass Migration (like we're talking millions of people here not a few thousend) isn't because its usually not the educated, secularized people from the cities who come and who are somewhat compatible to european culture but the uneducated masses of the lower castes who get quickly alienated in Europe and cling all the more to their religious ethos and start forming an undercaste which provides an reservoir for crime, instability and ultimatively an radical islamist revolutionary potential. See Lebanon post cairo agreement.

Control who and how many are allowed to enter trough your borders, I guess.

[Salus Maior]

Mass Migration (like we're talking millions of people here not a few thousend) isn't because its usually not the educated, secularized people from the cities who come and who are somewhat compatible to european culture but the uneducated masses of the lower castes who get quickly alienated in Europe and cling all the more to their religious ethos and start forming an undercaste which provides an reservoir for crime, instability and ultimatively an radical islamist revolutionary potential. See Lebanon post cairo agreement.

Control who and how many are allowed to enter trough your borders, I guess.

Yeah, I wish.

[Vetalia]

Not really, no. It essentially opens up interactions on a bad foot. As an outsider, ultimate truth is not something I’d ascribe to Abrahmic religions. Or any religion for that matter. Refraining from acting superior in faith would take everyone a long way but I doubt either Christians or Muslims will stop. So no common ground will be achieved.

But that proves my point, you're an outsider who doesn't understand the depth of faith and theology in Christianity and Islam. Absolute and unequivocal truth regarding God and His revelation to humanity are essential to the Abrahamic revealed religions...we both believe our faith is absolutely, unequivocally true and there is no room for dissension on the tenets of our respective faiths. I can't walk back my faith in the Resurrection of Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Trinity any more than a Muslim can deny the divine revelation granted to Muhammad or their concept of absolute montheism worshipping the One God.

If we admit that these are fundamental differences between us, we can improve our relations in the areas we do agree.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Not really, no. It essentially opens up interactions on a bad foot. As an outsider, ultimate truth is not something I’d ascribe to Abrahmic religions. Or any religion for that matter. Refraining from acting superior in faith would take everyone a long way but I doubt either Christians or Muslims will stop. So no common ground will be achieved.

But that proves my point, you're an outsider who doesn't understand the depth of faith and theology in Christianity and Islam. Absolute and unequivocal truth regarding God and His revelation to humanity are essential to the Abrahamic revealed religions...we both believe our faith is absolutely, unequivocally true and there is no room for dissension on the tenets of our respective faiths. I can't walk back my faith in the Resurrection of Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Trinity any more than a Muslim can deny the divine revelation granted to Muhammad or their concept of absolute montheism worshipping the One God.

If we admit that these are fundamental differences between us, we can improve our relations in the areas we do agree.

I grew up Christian. I understand very will. Which is why I have the stance I do and why I don’t identify as Christian.

Admitting fundamental difference while also not claiming superiority would be great. But you prove you’re not willing to do that. And neither does the other sides. So the rift will endure.

[Salus Maior]

But that proves my point, you're an outsider who doesn't understand the depth of faith and theology in Christianity and Islam. Absolute and unequivocal truth regarding God and His revelation to humanity are essential to the Abrahamic revealed religions...we both believe our faith is absolutely, unequivocally true and there is no room for dissension on the tenets of our respective faiths. I can't walk back my faith in the Resurrection of Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Trinity any more than a Muslim can deny the divine revelation granted to Muhammad or their concept of absolute montheism worshipping the One God.

If we admit that these are fundamental differences between us, we can improve our relations in the areas we do agree.

I grew up Christian. I understand very will. Which is why I have the stance I do and why I don’t identify as Christian.

Admitting fundamental difference while also not claiming superiority would be great. But you prove you’re not willing to do that. And neither does the other sides. So the rift will endure.

Everyone believes what they believe is better than alternatives for one reason or another. Otherwise, why believe it?

I imagine you hold your position because you believe it is better to believe as you do than to believe otherwise.

[Vetalia]

I grew up Christian. I understand very will. Which is why I have the stance I do and why I don’t identify as Christian.

Admitting fundamental difference while also not claiming superiority would be great. But you prove you’re not willing to do that. And neither does the other sides. So the rift will endure.

We simply can't do that, whether Christian or Muslim. The fact is, we both believe we are right and the sole source of religious truth and this is not going to change until the end of the world.

We can, however, find areas of cooperation and common ground that benefit everyone and prevent religious violence.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I grew up Christian. I understand very will. Which is why I have the stance I do and why I don’t identify as Christian.

Admitting fundamental difference while also not claiming superiority would be great. But you prove you’re not willing to do that. And neither does the other sides. So the rift will endure.

Everyone believes what they believe is better than alternatives for one reason or another. Otherwise, why believe it?

I imagine you hold your position because you believe it is better to believe as you do than to believe otherwise.

I hold my position for my own personal reasons. But don’t expect that any common ground can be achieved if your opening line is saying your believe system is the “ultimate truth” or superior to the very group you’re trying to reach about a common ground. You dismiss yourself, to them, from the start.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

There is no problem that cannot be solved with education because ignorance is the main source of wars. They must surrender to the authority of the secular because we are the righteous in the leadership of science.

We're pretty good with science, thanks.

Those who blindly defend mythology without questioning can never be good at science. We see the so-called science of those who fight for religion in Syria and Armenia, please don't fool yourself. All you have to do is to obey the rules of secularism. Religions are temporary. Science is permanent.

[Nakena]

Not really, no. It essentially opens up interactions on a bad foot. As an outsider, ultimate truth is not something I’d ascribe to Abrahmic religions. Or any religion for that matter. Refraining from acting superior in faith would take everyone a long way but I doubt either Christians or Muslims will stop. So no common ground will be achieved.

But that proves my point, you're an outsider who doesn't understand the depth of faith and theology in Christianity and Islam. Absolute and unequivocal truth regarding God and His revelation to humanity are essential to the Abrahamic revealed religions...we both believe our faith is absolutely, unequivocally true and there is no room for dissension on the tenets of our respective faiths. I can't walk back my faith in the Resurrection of Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Trinity any more than a Muslim can deny the divine revelation granted to Muhammad or their concept of absolute montheism worshipping the One God.

If we admit that these are fundamental differences between us, we can improve our relations in the areas we do agree.

Very much this.

And this is very true for a lot if not the majority of moslems and the culture that comes with it. Thats why many westerners fail to understand Islam, because they see it simply as something that can be easily "reformed" or secularized. The idea of such absolute belief is alien to them.

But they do not understand how deep running this can be and how much, for this reason, a barrier it can form at some point. Theres a barrier of both understanding and believing in fundamentally different truths and worldviews as well.

And I think that includes many posters here in this thread too.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I grew up Christian. I understand very will. Which is why I have the stance I do and why I don’t identify as Christian.

Admitting fundamental difference while also not claiming superiority would be great. But you prove you’re not willing to do that. And neither does the other sides. So the rift will endure.

We simply can't do that, whether Christian or Muslim. The fact is, we both believe we are right and the sole source of religious truth and this is not going to change until the end of the world.

We can, however, find areas of cooperation and common ground that benefit everyone and prevent religious violence.

My point, for the last time, is that you can’t expect to find common ground by telling those you’re trying to reach that your religion is the ultimate truth and theirs, implied, is false. Do you understand?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

End sectarianism. Our personal beliefs do not change the fact that many times both Muslims and Christians are in the same boat in terms of socioeconomic status.

Stop violence between the working class. No more brother wars.

[Washington Resistance Army]

End sectarianism. Our personal beliefs do not change the fact that many times both Muslims and Christians are in the same boat in terms of socioeconomic status.

Stop violence between the working class. No more brother wars.

You know that's literally a Nazi slogan right lol

[Salus Maior]

Everyone believes what they believe is better than alternatives for one reason or another. Otherwise, why believe it?

I imagine you hold your position because you believe it is better to believe as you do than to believe otherwise.

I hold my position for my own personal reasons. But don’t expect that any common ground can be achieved if your opening line is saying your believe system is the “ultimate truth” or superior to the very group you’re trying to reach about a common ground. You dismiss yourself, to them, from the start.

And I'm sure it's because you believe it's better than alternatives for one reason or another once you boil it down.

Well yeah, that's never my opening line.

Unless I'm on a first date.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I hold my position for my own personal reasons. But don’t expect that any common ground can be achieved if your opening line is saying your believe system is the “ultimate truth” or superior to the very group you’re trying to reach about a common ground. You dismiss yourself, to them, from the start.

And I'm sure it's because you believe it's better than alternatives for one reason or another once you boil it down.

Well yeah, that's never my opening line.

Unless I'm on a first date.

If you think I consider the way I believe to hold ultimate truth, let me say I do not. *shrug*

[Borderlands of Rojava]

End sectarianism. Our personal beliefs do not change the fact that many times both Muslims and Christians are in the same boat in terms of socioeconomic status.

Stop violence between the working class. No more brother wars.

You know that's literally a Nazi slogan right lol

Doesn't need to be. Ever heard of appropriation?

Nazis took Pepe. Someone ought to take something from them, especially an innocuous statement like that.

[Vetalia]

We simply can't do that, whether Christian or Muslim. The fact is, we both believe we are right and the sole source of religious truth and this is not going to change until the end of the world.

We can, however, find areas of cooperation and common ground that benefit everyone and prevent religious violence.

My point, for the last time, is that you can’t expect to find common ground by telling those you’re trying to reach that your religion is the ultimate truth and theirs, implied, is false. Do you understand?

We both believe this, so we have to act together in the areas we do agree upon. l would be shocked if Christian or Muslim charities refused to work together as this is one area we both agree upon with no contradiction. You simply can't get us to agree on anything aside from the inherent nature of God.

[Resilient Acceleration]

Secularization and western values for both sides, to be honest. Teach things like human rights, patriotic values, and tolerance, independent of religion. Encourage religious mixing in schools and basically treat everyone as an equal part of society, a society and identity that belongs to and genuinely accepted by everyone.

Now I'm not religious anymore, but in particular, I saw that the best way to increase tolerance is to have friends outside of your own group. Because of that, I always actively criticized Islam's order of "do not closely befriend infidels" and try to find loopholes or twist the Quranic words in question to produce a different meaning. And had I became the valedictorian of my highschool (which sadly didn't happen), I planned to give a speech endorsing an inter-religious relationship between two of my close friends in front of everyone (of course without naming names) including their parents, pointing out that the Islamist-backed leader of the opposition has a Muslim father and a Christian mother.

[Adamede]

Renounce Islam and Christianity. That would be a start.

It’s a strange day when I’m agreeing with this poster, but this is basically my stance as well.

People who disagree on the basic nature of morality will never be able to truly live at peace. If the world is to meaningfully progress socially, these obsolete superstitions need to disappear.

Stop getting ethical advice from people who’s been dead for centuries.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed but near every law and code that every civilization is founded on, both religious and secular, comes from a dead person.