Muslims and Christians, how can we improve relations?

[Adamede]

I suppose its possible for individual Muslims to be reasonable enough (although its rarer from my perspective). I'm never going to forgive Islam in full however, because of the things it does to non-Muslims. Never unto the day I die. People inspired by Islam still did 9/11 and regularly attack my beloved western European countries/cultures among others I'm more inclined to back. Plus Islam tried to invade Europe and India after not being satisfied with annexing the middle east and north Africa.

That’s just fucking human behavior dude, not something inherent to Islam.

[Washington Resistance Army]

There is something called New Testament, that call retcon most of the retarded parts of the Old Testament. There is a guy called Jesus you may know him. I bet he could wage a war and marry a 9 years old little girl, but he instead chose the path of peace.

Same thing about the Muslims. I want you to read that entire book not just the verse and you will see what it actually means.

It's not even remotely the same thing for Muslims. Things like the Council of Jerusalem clearly lay out what parts of the Old Testament do and don't apply to gentile Christians. There's no such distinction in the Quran.

[Kexholm Karelia]

I’m sure Muslims can point out criticisms of Christianity, but my point here is a criticism of Islam. Islam never had a reformation, and the structure of the religion is decentralized. Whenever extremism arises in one sect, all the other sects go "that’s not my problem" instead of taking collective action to stamp it out. Until this is solved, I don’t think Islam and the other major religions can exist in peace

[Saiwania]

That’s just fucking human behavior dude, not something inherent to Islam.

How Islam sets up Caliphates or practices Shariah however, is. And the precedent is that its almost always bad for non-Muslims if they have to live under such rules. It makes more sense for non-Muslims to rebel or fight on in that context if they want to keep their freedoms and previous status/privileges and aren't keen on embracing a system that can only serve to be disadvantageous or take away their previous or preferred way of life.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Renounce Islam and Christianity. That would be a start.

[Adamede]

That’s just fucking human behavior dude, not something inherent to Islam.

How Islam sets up Caliphates or practices Shariah however, is. And the precedent is that its almost always bad for non-Muslims if they have to live under such rules. It makes more sense for non-Muslims to rebel or fight on in that context if they want to keep their freedoms and previous status/privileges and aren't keen on embracing a system that can only serve to be disadvantageous or take away their previous or preferred way of life.

Caliphates and Shariah are simply Islamic variants of normal humans behavior in history. You think it was good for non-Christians to live under Christian governments?

Religious government is shit regardless of the religion.

[-Astoria-]

Mutual respect, if not of the two religions, of the believers of both religions.

Don’t hold your breath however.

This.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Renounce Islam and Christianity. That would be a start.

Based. Embrace the old gods.

[Salus Maior]

They can stop killing us.

That'd be a start.

[Cordel One]

They can stop killing us.

That'd be a start.

"You" can stop killing "them" as well.

[Salus Maior]

They can stop killing us.

That'd be a start.

"You" can stop killing "them" as well.

There isn't an institutional crackdown of Muslims anywhere in the formerly Christian world. You get lone wolf terrorists, sure, but you don't have apostasy laws and institutional discrimination the likes of what happens to Copts in Egypt and Assyrians in Iraq and Syria. Who, might I add, were recently subjected to genocide and slavery by their Muslim neighbors when ISIS marched through.

So you can cut the bullshit "both sides are bad" schtick.

[Salus Maior]

The use of Smallpox infection as a biological weapon isnt natural demographic collapse - its planned military lead genocide

I doubt most of that was intentional.

Because this is assuming that 16th century people have a sophisticated understanding about immunity and how diseases spread. Which they didn't.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Stopping the constant ethnic cleansing and oppression that Middle Eastern Christians face on a daily basis would be a tremendous start.

[Geneviev]

We could try to be kinder, to start with.

[Plzen]

Renounce Islam and Christianity. That would be a start.

It’s a strange day when I’m agreeing with this poster, but this is basically my stance as well.

People who disagree on the basic nature of morality will never be able to truly live at peace. If the world is to meaningfully progress socially, these obsolete superstitions need to disappear.

Stop getting ethical advice from people who’s been dead for centuries.

[Esternial]

Renounce Islam and Christianity. That would be a start.

It’s a strange day when I’m agreeing with this poster, but this is basically my stance as well.

People who disagree on the basic nature of morality will never be able to truly live at peace. If the world is to meaningfully progress socially, these obsolete superstitions need to disappear.

Stop getting ethical advice from people who’s been dead for centuries.

Lots of ethical axioms originate from people who have been dead for centuries. Religion most certainly had an influence on our established rules of "proper" morality today, even though forms of religions exists that have been bastardized to inflate people's egos with illusions of grandeur and divine purity by obeying a strict, often hateful, code.

Religion just shows that people are capable of exceptional virtue and exceptional wickedness. Denouncing entire religions based on the wicked completely disregards the virtuous, which I can't agree with - partially because my own mother is one of those virtuous, generous people that have only love and acceptance to give, and seeing her faith trampled on by the same intolerance that religious zealots throw about seems a bit hypocritical to me.

There is definitely a problem with religion, but it's just an easy target. Humanity is deeply flawed. Focusing on the wicked religious zealots is perhaps just an easy way to distance you from that reality...makes it easier to pretend they are not like us while in truth they are - they've just wrapped themselves in antiquated religious dogmas.

[Cetacea]

The use of Smallpox infection as a biological weapon isnt natural demographic collapse - its planned military lead genocide

I doubt most of that was intentional.

Because this is assuming that 16th century people have a sophisticated understanding about immunity and how diseases spread. Which they didn't.

Its important to note that colonisation isnt confined to the 16th century and in fact lasted up to the 20th century and we do know that by 1763 the British understood the affects of smallpox on a settlement enough to advocate for it to be spread amongst the ‘indians’. So maybe we can forgive the Spanish in Mexico, but not the later events.
In 1789 ‘variolas matter‘ (smallpox infected pus) was carried in jars on board British ships travelling to Australia. When the settlers faced opposition from the local tribes the smallpox somehow escaped leading to mass deaths of the aborignal peoples of Sydney Cove (the incident conviniently was blamed on the French who had left a year earlier).
In 1862 an outbreak occured in Vancouver (introduced by an San Francisco steamer). The Native people trading in the town were refused treatment, police burned their camps down, herded them at gunpoint on to canoes which were then towed up the coast - this spread the infection and lead to a mass epidemic.

[Nakena]

The two religions are too diametrically opposed for there to ever be total peace between the two.

No they aren't. They are two distant brethen from the same source.

Christians are considered people of the Book.

[Cordel One]

"You" can stop killing "them" as well.

There isn't an institutional crackdown of Muslims anywhere in the formerly Christian world. You get lone wolf terrorists, sure, but you don't have apostasy laws and institutional discrimination the likes of what happens to Copts in Egypt and Assyrians in Iraq and Syria. Who, might I add, were recently subjected to genocide and slavery by their Muslim neighbors when ISIS marched through.

So you can cut the bullshit "both sides are bad" schtick.

I mean the US is kinda rampaging through the Middle East right now and there were the Crusades and the Inquisition so

[Vetalia]

Focus on the fundamental truth that we both believe in the One God who was revealed to Abraham. I have to be honest and say that I do pray for the conversion of both Jews and Muslims to the fullness of Truth in the Christian faith but the fact is that they do worship the same God, even if their understanding of Him is imperfect.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Focus on the fundamental truth that we both believe in the One God who was revealed to Abraham. I have to be honest and say that I do pray for the conversion of both Jews and Muslims to the fullness of Truth in the Christian faith but the fact is that they do worship the same God, even if their understanding of Him is imperfect.

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Focus on the fundamental truth that we both believe in the One God who was revealed to Abraham. I have to be honest and say that I do pray for the conversion of both Jews and Muslims to the fullness of Truth in the Christian faith but the fact is that they do worship the same God, even if their understanding of Him is imperfect.

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

The problem is that the ultimate truth bit is inherent to Christianity and Islam. It's not really a live and let live kinda thing.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

The problem is that the ultimate truth bit is inherent to Christianity and Islam. It's not really a live and let live kinda thing.

The main reason why I don’t subscribe to Abrahamic religions.

[Nakena]

Focus on the fundamental truth that we both believe in the One God who was revealed to Abraham. I have to be honest and say that I do pray for the conversion of both Jews and Muslims to the fullness of Truth in the Christian faith but the fact is that they do worship the same God, even if their understanding of Him is imperfect.

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

Well Islam and Christianity consider themself to be the proper interpretation of the abrahamite faith. Altough Islam is even more insistive on that point. Originally Islam was perceived to be a heresy of christianity for that reason when it arose.

In this regard Judaism keeps to itself, but there its a tribal religion.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Perhaps refraining from saying your religion holds ultimate truth and letting others worship as they will would be a start, don’t you think?

Well Islam and Christianity consider themself to be the proper interpretation of the abrahamite faith. Altough Islam is even more insistive on that point. Originally Islam was perceived to be a heresy of christianity for that reason when it arose.

In this regard Judaism keeps to itself, but there its a tribal religion.

Would be great if all three kept to themselves. Insisting on ultimate truth and discrediting the other keeps adherents at odds constantly.