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by Senkaku » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:24 pm
by Nakena » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:26 pm
Senkaku wrote:Nah. Their family had political control of the nation and set in motion political events which led to the loss of that control, along with the riches that it provided them with. They don't get to now start complaining that they were just like any other family or citizen without any agency or culpability for those events and should have it all returned to them.
by Frajland » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:27 pm
by Senkaku » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:29 pm
Nakena wrote:Senkaku wrote:Nah. Their family had political control of the nation and set in motion political events which led to the loss of that control, along with the riches that it provided them with. They don't get to now start complaining that they were just like any other family or citizen without any agency or culpability for those events and should have it all returned to them.
I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.
So different story.
by Frajland » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:31 pm
Senkaku wrote:Nakena wrote:
I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.
So different story.
They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem. It's the risk you run when you run a personalist dictatorship as your family business.
by Atheris » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:31 pm
Senkaku wrote:Nakena wrote:
I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.
So different story.
They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem.
by Nakena » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:33 pm
Cordel One wrote:Intaglio wrote:Pillaged? They're asking for the return of things like properties, jewels, artwork and treasures like that. Most of those things would hve built or commissioned by the family themselves, so it's hardly "pillaging" and regardless of whether it was pillaged, that has no legal bearing on their ownership of it.
They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.
by Atheris » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:34 pm
Nakena wrote:Cordel One wrote:They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.
Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.
by Senkaku » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:34 pm
Frajland wrote:Senkaku wrote:They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem. It's the risk you run when you run a personalist dictatorship as your family business.
That's reasonable but their property wasn't taken because of the fall of the dynasty or the consequences, it was taken and is not being given back because of the support of the NSDAP.
Atheris wrote:Senkaku wrote:They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem.
The reason WW1 went down the way it did was not the fault of the Hohenzollerns. It was the fault of the Romanovs (for ordering general mobilization in a moment where not ordering it would've prevented the war), the Habsburgs (for mobilizing against Serbia and for Franz Ferdinand's driver just being an idiot), and the Obrenovićes (for funding and supplying the Black Hand).
by Dytarma » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:35 pm
Genivaria wrote:They can get fucked.
by Frajland » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:36 pm
by Intaglio » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:36 pm
Cordel One wrote:Intaglio wrote:Pillaged? They're asking for the return of things like properties, jewels, artwork and treasures like that. Most of those things would hve built or commissioned by the family themselves, so it's hardly "pillaging" and regardless of whether it was pillaged, that has no legal bearing on their ownership of it.
They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.
by Phoenixy » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:36 pm
Atheris wrote:Senkaku wrote:They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem.
The reason WW1 went down the way it did was not the fault of the Hohenzollerns. It was the fault of the Romanovs (for ordering general mobilization in a moment where not ordering it would've prevented the war), the Habsburgs (for mobilizing against Serbia and for Franz Ferdinand's driver just being an idiot), and the Obrenovićes (for funding and supplying the Black Hand).
by Senkaku » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:37 pm
by Cordel One » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:37 pm
Nakena wrote:Cordel One wrote:They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.
Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.
by Atheris » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:37 pm
Cordel One wrote:Nakena wrote:
Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.
I absolutely love this. The star looks good there.
by Risottia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:38 pm
Cordel One wrote:I absolutely love this. The star looks good there.
by Kowani » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:39 pm
by Bombadil » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:40 pm
by No State Here » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:40 pm
by Senkaku » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:40 pm
Frajland wrote:
Not directly, don't try pulling the whole "I'm technically related to Jesus" kinda thing.
by Commonwealth of Hank the Cat » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:40 pm
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