Germany's ex-royals want their riches back

[Senkaku]

Nah. Their family had political control of the nation and set in motion political events which led to the loss of that control, along with the riches that it provided them with. They don't get to now start complaining that they were just like any other family or citizen without any agency or culpability for those events and should have it all returned to them. Germany's old men should betake themselves to the public squares to preach hatred of kings and the unity of the Federal Republic.

[Nakena]

Nah. Their family had political control of the nation and set in motion political events which led to the loss of that control, along with the riches that it provided them with. They don't get to now start complaining that they were just like any other family or citizen without any agency or culpability for those events and should have it all returned to them.

I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.

So different story.

[Frajland]

IMO he should get it back.
Despite his family having potential "substantially supported" the Nazis, I assume the law was made to avoid people like Goring's kids from demanding all the property their awful fathers took from millions, but that's not the case here.

[Senkaku]

Nah. Their family had political control of the nation and set in motion political events which led to the loss of that control, along with the riches that it provided them with. They don't get to now start complaining that they were just like any other family or citizen without any agency or culpability for those events and should have it all returned to them.

I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.

So different story.

They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem. It's the risk you run when you run a personalist dictatorship as your family business.

[Frajland]

I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.

So different story.

They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem. It's the risk you run when you run a personalist dictatorship as your family business.

That's reasonable but their property wasn't taken because of the fall of the dynasty or the consequences, it was taken and is not being given back because of the support of the NSDAP.

[Atheris]

I don't disagree but thats not whats concerned here, since the riches in question were confiscated by the GDR post WW2 and are in no relation to the downfall of House Hohenzollern post WW1.

So different story.

They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem.

The reason WW1 went down the way it did was not the fault of the Hohenzollerns. It was the fault of the Romanovs (for ordering general mobilization in a moment where not ordering it would've prevented the war), the Habsburgs (for mobilizing against Serbia and for Franz Ferdinand's driver just being an idiot), and the Obrenovićes (for funding and supplying the Black Hand).

[Nakena]

Pillaged? They're asking for the return of things like properties, jewels, artwork and treasures like that. Most of those things would hve built or commissioned by the family themselves, so it's hardly "pillaging" and regardless of whether it was pillaged, that has no legal bearing on their ownership of it.

They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.

Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.

[Atheris]

They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.

Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.

It's so beautiful. *sniff*

[Senkaku]

They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem. It's the risk you run when you run a personalist dictatorship as your family business.

That's reasonable but their property wasn't taken because of the fall of the dynasty or the consequences, it was taken and is not being given back because of the support of the NSDAP.

Yes, it was. The dynasty fell, everything in Germany's political history since is part of the consequences, including people's resentment of their eventual support for the Nazis.

They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem.

The reason WW1 went down the way it did was not the fault of the Hohenzollerns. It was the fault of the Romanovs (for ordering general mobilization in a moment where not ordering it would've prevented the war), the Habsburgs (for mobilizing against Serbia and for Franz Ferdinand's driver just being an idiot), and the Obrenovićes (for funding and supplying the Black Hand).

The Kaiser could've decided to not get involved or to make peace earlier. When you're an absolute (or near absolute) monarch, the buck stops with you. Yes, other actors also played a role, but saving the dynasty was certainly within their power-- they made mistakes and failed.

[Genivaria]

They can get fucked.

[Dytarma]

They can get fucked.

Bro its been a century, chill

[Frajland]

That's reasonable but their property wasn't taken because of the fall of the dynasty or the consequences, it was taken and is not being given back because of the support of the NSDAP.

Yes, it was. The dynasty fell, everything in Germany's political history since is part of the consequences, including people's resentment of their eventual support for the Nazis.

Not directly, don't try pulling the whole "I'm technically related to Jesus" kinda thing.

[Intaglio]

Pillaged? They're asking for the return of things like properties, jewels, artwork and treasures like that. Most of those things would hve built or commissioned by the family themselves, so it's hardly "pillaging" and regardless of whether it was pillaged, that has no legal bearing on their ownership of it.

They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.

Well, by that logic, most of the rich people in the world should be stripped of their properties and money as well, do you also support that?

[Phoenixy]

They started the ball rolling on the Long War of the 20th Century. I don't see it as a different conflict; it all flowed from the decisions the Kaiser made. I don't have sympathy for the descendants of the Qing Dynasty either, who got a nice settlement at first under the ROC and later faced much harsher measures-- if your ancestors rule the country and profit hugely from it, and then their misrule and bad decisions lead them to lose political control and eventually lose your family's fortune, that's not everyone else's problem.

The reason WW1 went down the way it did was not the fault of the Hohenzollerns. It was the fault of the Romanovs (for ordering general mobilization in a moment where not ordering it would've prevented the war), the Habsburgs (for mobilizing against Serbia and for Franz Ferdinand's driver just being an idiot), and the Obrenovićes (for funding and supplying the Black Hand).

I tend to believe that it was in part the German military-industrial Junker establishment and overconfident Prussian militarism wishing to establish a place in the sun, and in part the Great Powers of the time wishing to maintain the Status Quo, achieve absolute dominance and make an example out of Germany. Both were at fault and while the Entente escalated things it was the Central Powers that started it.

[Senkaku]

They can get fucked.

Bro its been a century, chill

All the more reason why they shouldn't be given anything back. I'm surprised there isn't some kind of statute of limitations on this bullshit, you'd think internationally recognized successor states would have the same powers to legitimately expropriate property as any other country.

[Cordel One]

They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.

Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.

I absolutely love this. The star looks good there.

They were gained through exploitation of the working class and imperialism. These things belong in a museum.

Well, by that logic, most of the rich people in the world should be stripped of their properties and money as well, do you also support that?

Yes, I do.

[Atheris]

Funfact: One of the objects that is part of the legal drama is the Cecilienhof Palace which was post WW2 taken over by the Soviet Army who put a big Red Star in the midst of the garden.

I absolutely love this. The star looks good there.

Finally, something we can agree on.

[Risottia]

I absolutely love this. The star looks good there.

Adding a couple of IS-2 would make it look even better.

[Genivaria]

They can get fucked.

Bro its been a century, chill

What does that have to do with anything?

[Kowani]

Ahahaahah no

[Phoenixy]

I absolutely love this. The star looks good there.

Adding a couple of IS-2 would make it look even better.

And a statue of Zhukov dabbing.

[Bombadil]

In the end I guess it's a matter of the law but in my view property of the royal class belongs to the people, and they use it as representatives of the people. Once they no longer represent the people the property is no longer theirs. It is passed to the next representatives of the people.

[No State Here]

Since they’re private citizens of the Republic now, and it’s been handing property seized by the Eastern government back, I don’t see why there should be a special exemption for the ex-royals

[Senkaku]

Not directly, don't try pulling the whole "I'm technically related to Jesus" kinda thing.

Don't know what that means, but-- yes, it was direct. When your family enterprise is a personalist dictatorship in a major industrial country, and it fails, the consequences tend to be massive, far-reaching, and unpredictable. That's the nature of the business, they knew the risks. Frankly, given Europe's rather grim treatment of previous deposed dynasties, they probably got lucky that it hasn't gone worse for them. It might be time to stop tempting fate and quietly fade into the pages of history, rather than embarking on quixotic legal battles to reclaim an ancient fortune that they've long since lost the rights to.

[Commonwealth of Hank the Cat]

Adding a couple of IS-2 would make it look even better.

And a statue of Zhukov dabbing.

With the caption on the statue simply stating "Go cry about it."