Are the actions of the U.S. military justified?

[Kernen]

The US literally did the exact same thing in World War II, and still give hysterectomies to mothers at the border.

Don't defend the CIA.

Except we didn't commit industrialized, organized mass murder of an ethnic minority we didn't like.

Maybe read a fucking book.

The best that can be said about US imperialism is that it's abuse isn't as bad as others' abuses. A resounding rallying cry.

[Stylan]

Except we didn't commit industrialized, organized mass murder of an ethnic minority we didn't like.

Maybe read a fucking book.

The best that can be said about US imperialism is that it's abuse isn't as bad as others' abuses. A resounding rallying cry.

It literally is as bad, for fucks sake China doesn't bomb any country that dares oppose it's state ideology, quite unlike the US, which, if you are a South American/Asian/African government that wishes to pursue nationalism or communism/socialism will get utterly destroyed and then massively privatized and fucked by the World Bank and their criminal corporate pals.

[Alcala-Cordel]

The best that can be said about US imperialism is that it's abuse isn't as bad as others' abuses. A resounding rallying cry.

It literally is as bad, for fucks sake China doesn't bomb any country that dares oppose it's state ideology, quite unlike the US, which, if you are a South American/Asian/African government that wishes to pursue nationalism or communism/socialism will get utterly destroyed and then massively privatized and fucked by the World Bank and their criminal corporate pals.

Not really, but better than the US.

[Kernen]

The best that can be said about US imperialism is that it's abuse isn't as bad as others' abuses. A resounding rallying cry.

It literally is as bad, for fucks sake China doesn't bomb any country that dares oppose it's state ideology, quite unlike the US, which, if you are a South American/Asian/African government that wishes to pursue nationalism or communism/socialism will get utterly destroyed and then massively privatized and fucked by the World Bank and their criminal corporate pals.

China just likes occupying them and rounding up dissidents.

I suppose which is worse is academic. Would you rather be killed on camera or off?

[Rusozak]

The best that can be said about US imperialism is that it's abuse isn't as bad as others' abuses. A resounding rallying cry.

It literally is as bad, for fucks sake China doesn't bomb any country that dares oppose it's state ideology, quite unlike the US, which, if you are a South American/Asian/African government that wishes to pursue nationalism or communism/socialism will get utterly destroyed and then massively privatized and fucked by the World Bank and their criminal corporate pals.

Well, China has actual extermination camps so I would say the U.S. isn't as bad, but it's a pretty fucking low bar if all you have to do to be considered the good guys is to be better than China.

[Senkaku]

The US literally did the exact same thing in World War II, and still give hysterectomies to mothers at the border.

Don't defend the CIA.

Except we didn't commit industrialized, organized mass murder of an ethnic minority we didn't like.

Maybe read a fucking book.

...what do you think the US did to indigenous people as it expanded west, exactly? Literally from the time the English first landed? Is it somehow more okay if it wasn't fully industrialized?

[-Insaanistan-]

Me too. China seems to be focused on Turkic Muslims. Other Muslims just get some restrictions. I’m any case, my Muslim Chinese relatives in Ghana I barely know, and the ones in China I don’t know at all.

I really wish we (the US specifically and 'the west' in general) had the spine to actually call out China for all their crap.
We need to start treating them like international pariahs like we do North Korea at the very least.

It’s not like the Muslim World minus Turkey is doing much. I’ll make my next sermon in IDT about that, probably.

[Salus Maior]

Except we didn't commit industrialized, organized mass murder of an ethnic minority we didn't like.

Maybe read a fucking book.

The best that can be said about US imperialism is that it's abuse isn't as bad as others' abuses. A resounding rallying cry.

That's life for you.

[Old Tyrannia]

Far be it for me to defend the United States, but I think that if you were to ask a South Korean or a Kuwaiti if they thought American military actions abroad were ever justified, they'd probably reply in the affirmative. Obviously the US, like any major power, acts principally to protect its own interests and maintain its influence, but pretending that the world would be a better place if it were to stop doing so is naïve at best and actively deceptive at worst. If the US had kept to itself in the post-war period then many more people would be living under horrific dictatorships today.

[Kernen]

Far be it for me to defend the United States, but I think that if you were to ask a South Korean or a Kuwaiti if they thought American military actions abroad were ever justified, they'd probably reply in the affirmative. Obviously the US, like any major power, acts principally to protect its own interests and maintain its influence, but pretending that the world would be a better place if it were to stop doing so is naïve at best and actively deceptive at worst. If the US had kept to itself in the post-war period then many more people would be living under horrific dictatorships today.

Did not several of them live under horrific dictatorships because of the US?

[Thermodolia]

It's also not Iraq's business to invade other countries.

Is it our business to stop them?

When asked to uphold our treaties yes

[Stylan]

It literally is as bad, for fucks sake China doesn't bomb any country that dares oppose it's state ideology, quite unlike the US, which, if you are a South American/Asian/African government that wishes to pursue nationalism or communism/socialism will get utterly destroyed and then massively privatized and fucked by the World Bank and their criminal corporate pals.

China just likes occupying them and rounding up dissidents.

I suppose which is worse is academic. Would you rather be killed on camera or off?

The US has interfered in Italy, Greece, Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Laos, China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Syria, Korea, Vietnam, the Philipines, Guatemala, Burkina Faso, and so many more. China maybe made a little island in the sea. These are not the same thing.

And fun fact, the US systematically killed around a million communists through Indonesia puppet-governments, what countries has China done that to?

[-Insaanistan-]

Far be it for me to defend the United States, but I think that if you were to ask a South Korean or a Kuwaiti if they thought American military actions abroad were ever justified, they'd probably reply in the affirmative. Obviously the US, like any major power, acts principally to protect its own interests and maintain its influence, but pretending that the world would be a better place if it were to stop doing so is naïve at best and actively deceptive at worst. If the US had kept to itself in the post-war period then many more people would be living under horrific dictatorships today.

Did not several of them live under horrific dictatorships because of the US?

...

yes.
We don’t talk about that.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Far be it for me to defend the United States, but I think that if you were to ask a South Korean or a Kuwaiti if they thought American military actions abroad were ever justified, they'd probably reply in the affirmative. Obviously the US, like any major power, acts principally to protect its own interests and maintain its influence, but pretending that the world would be a better place if it were to stop doing so is naïve at best and actively deceptive at worst. If the US had kept to itself in the post-war period then many more people would be living under horrific dictatorships today.

Did not several of them live under horrific dictatorships because of the US?

You can thank Operation Condor for the tensions in South America.

[Stylan]

Did not several of them live under horrific dictatorships because of the US?

You can thank Operation Condor for the tensions in South America.

You forget dude, it's ok when we do it, just like how the Red Scare and systematic purging of communists in the 50s is a "mistake," but Stalin's killings of literal Nazis is a "war crime."

It's only bad when those evil commies do it!

[Kernen]

China just likes occupying them and rounding up dissidents.

I suppose which is worse is academic. Would you rather be killed on camera or off?

The US has interfered in Italy, Greece, Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Laos, China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Syria, Korea, Vietnam, the Philipines, Guatemala, Burkina Faso, and so many more. China maybe made a little island in the sea. These are not the same thing.

And fun fact, the US systematically killed around a million communists through Indonesia puppet-governments, what countries has China done that to?

The Tibetans and Uighurs would probably like a word. Probably also domestic dissidents, but that's only questionably a question of imperialism.

Even if (and its a fair question about 'if') China hadn't been as terrible as the US in the short time it's had the ability to do so, there's little to suggest that China wouldn't be if given the opportunity based on their record to date as a global power.

[Major-Tom]

China just likes occupying them and rounding up dissidents.

I suppose which is worse is academic. Would you rather be killed on camera or off?

The US has interfered in Italy, Greece, Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Laos, China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Syria, Korea, Vietnam, the Philipines, Guatemala, Burkina Faso, and so many more. China maybe made a little island in the sea. These are not the same thing.

And fun fact, the US systematically killed around a million communists through Indonesia puppet-governments, what countries has China done that to?

Systematically means with deliberation and with a firm intent. Our actions in Indonesia, however unjustified they were in propping up Suharto, were not systematic. I can see where you're coming from, perhaps our rationale behind nation-building doesn't matter when the end results often seem to go awry (which, more often than not, they have).

That said, that doesn't offer you a solid reasoning to claim that China is somehow better than us in terms of foreign policy. Looking solely at the governments they support both diplomatically and financially, as well as their checkered past, they certainly don't need much lauding, nor is it accurate to say that "they don't kill people they don't support." Nonsense.

Non-interventionism is noble, and while it's good that you're aware of how disastrous our foreign policy has been in the past, there is more nuance to be found outside the realm of a steady stream of Chapo Trap House and parroted talking points.

[Kernen]

Did not several of them live under horrific dictatorships because of the US?

You can thank Operation Condor for the tensions in South America.

Truly, we are a beacon of liberty and justice to be envied and emulated.

[Old Tyrannia]

Far be it for me to defend the United States, but I think that if you were to ask a South Korean or a Kuwaiti if they thought American military actions abroad were ever justified, they'd probably reply in the affirmative. Obviously the US, like any major power, acts principally to protect its own interests and maintain its influence, but pretending that the world would be a better place if it were to stop doing so is naïve at best and actively deceptive at worst. If the US had kept to itself in the post-war period then many more people would be living under horrific dictatorships today.

Did not several of them live under horrific dictatorships because of the US?

There are plenty of examples of the US supporting dictatorships which were aligned with its ideological interests, as there are examples of its main geopolitical opponents doing the same. The principal difference is that there are also examples of the US protecting and helping to install liberal democracies and relatively free regimes which were aligned with its ideological interests. I wonder if you can find any examples of the USSR, China or Iran doing the same. Newsflash: you won't because establishing liberal democracies was never in line with any of those state's ideological interests. If there must be a global hegemon, the United States is probably the least bad option to fulfil that role, at least out of the nations in a position to realistically do so.

[Thermodolia]

China just likes occupying them and rounding up dissidents.

I suppose which is worse is academic. Would you rather be killed on camera or off?

The US has interfered in Italy, Greece, Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Laos, China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Syria, Korea, Vietnam, the Philipines, Guatemala, Burkina Faso, and so many more. China maybe made a little island in the sea. These are not the same thing.

And fun fact, the US systematically killed around a million communists through Indonesia puppet-governments, what countries has China done that to?

China has done a hell of a lot more than just making islands in the sea. They’ve invaded Tibet, Vietnam, and India all for imperialistic reasons. And they’ve decided that Africans need to be colonized again. But hey facts don’t matter

[Stylan]

The US has interfered in Italy, Greece, Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Laos, China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Syria, Korea, Vietnam, the Philipines, Guatemala, Burkina Faso, and so many more. China maybe made a little island in the sea. These are not the same thing.

And fun fact, the US systematically killed around a million communists through Indonesia puppet-governments, what countries has China done that to?

Systematically means with deliberation and with a firm intent. Our actions in Indonesia, however unjustified they were in propping up Suharto, were not systematic. I can see where you're coming from, perhaps our rationale behind nation-building doesn't matter when the end results often seem to go awry (which, more often than not, they have).

That said, that doesn't offer you a solid reasoning to claim that China is somehow better than us in terms of foreign policy. Looking solely at the governments they support both diplomatically and financially, as well as their checkered past, they certainly don't need much lauding, nor is it accurate to say that "they don't kill people they don't support." Nonsense.

Non-interventionism is noble, and while it's good that you're aware of how disastrous our foreign policy has been in the past, there is more nuance to be found outside the realm of a steady stream of Chapo Trap House and parroted talking points.

Yes, they were systematic dude, the point of the US dictatorship in Indonesia was to crush communist dissent and prevent a socialist revolution from occurring.

China doesn't constantly coup governments they don't like. Find me a single example in fact of a government China has couped.

Your Chapo line made me laugh tho

[Aeritai]

Maybe we should move all of this China talk to the "Should China Exist" thread before this derails into another heated argument between the pro and anti CCP people. Anyway, would WW1 be considered a justified war for America? I mean we were attacked by German U-Boats, so I would say World War 1 is justified.

[Old Tyrannia]

Is it our business to stop them?

When asked to uphold our treaties yes

Didn't you know that coming to the aid of an allied country that is being invaded is imperialism?

[Thermodolia]

Systematically means with deliberation and with a firm intent. Our actions in Indonesia, however unjustified they were in propping up Suharto, were not systematic. I can see where you're coming from, perhaps our rationale behind nation-building doesn't matter when the end results often seem to go awry (which, more often than not, they have).

That said, that doesn't offer you a solid reasoning to claim that China is somehow better than us in terms of foreign policy. Looking solely at the governments they support both diplomatically and financially, as well as their checkered past, they certainly don't need much lauding, nor is it accurate to say that "they don't kill people they don't support." Nonsense.

Non-interventionism is noble, and while it's good that you're aware of how disastrous our foreign policy has been in the past, there is more nuance to be found outside the realm of a steady stream of Chapo Trap House and parroted talking points.

Yes, they were systematic dude, the point of the US dictatorship in Indonesia was to crush communist dissent and prevent a socialist revolution from occurring.

China doesn't constantly coup governments they don't like. Find me a single example in fact of a government China has couped.

Your Chapo line made me laugh tho

2017 in Zimbabwe. The coup there only went off with PRC approval

[Thermodolia]

When asked to uphold our treaties yes

Didn't you know that coming to the aid of an allied country that is being invaded is imperialism?

Oh yes silly me