Are the actions of the U.S. military justified?

[The Republic of Fore]

There would've been no need for intervention if the US kept Its nose out of other people's business.

The US has the sovereign right to embargo anyone it doesn't like, especially in regard to genocidal dictatorships. Go home, your arguments have been repeatedly deconstructed and debunked.

And people have the right to bomb countries who try to destroy their economy. Who died and made america the official anti dictator police? Last time I checked the constitution doesn't say "America is hereby responsible for every terrible thing that happens ever."

[Adamede]

The US has the sovereign right to embargo anyone it doesn't like, especially in regard to genocidal dictatorships. Go home, your arguments have been repeatedly deconstructed and debunked.

And people have the right to bomb countries who try to destroy their economy. Who died and made america the official anti dictator police? Last time I checked the constitution doesn't say "America is hereby responsible for every terrible thing that happens ever."

By that metric the US can bomb anyone it sees as threatening its economy, as in doing the exact same thing it does now.

[Picairn]

And people have the right to bomb countries who try to destroy their economy. Who died and made america the official anti dictator police? Last time I checked the constitution doesn't say "America is hereby responsible for every terrible thing that happens ever."

As I said, go home. This argument has been addressed, the US also has the sovereign right for retaliation. Last time I checked, the US didn't owe Japan a damn thing.

Argument over.

[The Republic of Fore]

There would've been no need for intervention if the US kept Its nose out of other people's business.

Would’ve been no need for US intervention if the Germans and Japanese didn’t go on the war path, and declare war on the US first.

That doesn't change that america can try not shoving It's nose where it doesn't belong for once.

[Adamede]

Would’ve been no need for US intervention if the Germans and Japanese didn’t go on the war path, and declare war on the US first.

That doesn't change that america can try not shoving It's nose where it doesn't belong for once.

Japan could’ve tried doing the exact same thing.

[The Republic of Fore]

And people have the right to bomb countries who try to destroy their economy. Who died and made america the official anti dictator police? Last time I checked the constitution doesn't say "America is hereby responsible for every terrible thing that happens ever."

As I said, go home. This argument has been addressed, the US also has the sovereign right for retaliation. Last time I checked, the US didn't owe Japan a damn thing.

Argument over.

The US also has a sovereign right to stay out of other people's business. It should try exercising that one once in a while. The last time I checked, the US didn't owe the people japan killed a damn thing. You're free to stop responding to me. No one forced you to.

[The Republic of Fore]

That doesn't change that america can try not shoving It's nose where it doesn't belong for once.

Japan could’ve tried doing the exact same thing.

Japan started those wars to conquer new resources and territory. That's a better reason to me than "we think we're the world police."

[Picairn]

The US also has a sovereign right to stay out of other people's business. It should try exercising that one once in a while.

Or it can do the common sense approach and refuse to trade with genocidal dictatorships.

The last time I checked, the US didn't owe the people japan killed a damn thing.

Last time I checked, the US still didn't owe Japan a damn thing.

You're free to stop responding to me. No one forced you to.

Ok cool, I'm done. Keep defending genocidal dictatorships.

[Kungsu]

Would’ve been no need for US intervention if the Germans and Japanese didn’t go on the war path, and declare war on the US first.

That doesn't change that america can try not shoving It's nose where it doesn't belong for once.

I agree that we need to scale back our interventionism by quite a bit, by the heavy-handed "no intervention unless we are directly threatened" is definitely not the answer. We exist on the world stage and are expected to act accordingly by our allies. But yes, America definitely has it's fingers in far too many pies, and the record shows it's pretty awful at handling interventions.

[The Republic of Fore]

The US also has a sovereign right to stay out of other people's business. It should try exercising that one once in a while.

Or it can do the common sense approach and refuse to trade with genocidal dictatorships.

The last time I checked, the US didn't owe the people japan killed a damn thing.

Last time I checked, the US still didn't owe Japan a damn thing.

You're free to stop responding to me. No one forced you to.

Ok cool, I'm done. Keep defending genocidal dictatorships.

It's common sense to trade with whoever pays the best price. Make more money that way. And yup, last time I checked the US still doesn't owe southeast asia a thing either. Trade with japan benefitted us. So we should've kept it.

[Loben III]

Or it can do the common sense approach and refuse to trade with genocidal dictatorships.


Last time I checked, the US still didn't owe Japan a damn thing.


Ok cool, I'm done. Keep defending genocidal dictatorships.

It's common sense to trade with whoever pays the best price. Make more money that way. And yup, last time I checked the US still doesn't owe southeast asia a thing either. Trade with japan benefitted us. So we should've kept it.

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

[The Republic of Fore]

That doesn't change that america can try not shoving It's nose where it doesn't belong for once.

I agree that we need to scale back our interventionism by quite a bit, by the heavy-handed "no intervention unless we are directly threatened" is definitely not the answer. We exist on the world stage and are expected to act accordingly by our allies. But yes, America definitely has it's fingers in far too many pies, and the record shows it's pretty awful at handling interventions.

I don't really consider what our allies do or don't expect to be relevant. We waste far too much money and resources subsidizing them. Sending our sons to die because we have "allies" isn't the answer either.

[Kungsu]

It's common sense to trade with whoever pays the best price. Make more money that way. And yup, last time I checked the US still doesn't owe southeast asia a thing either. Trade with japan benefitted us. So we should've kept it.

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

Yeah, and I'd rather not sell a gun to someone who plans on shooting me.

[The Republic of Fore]

It's common sense to trade with whoever pays the best price. Make more money that way. And yup, last time I checked the US still doesn't owe southeast asia a thing either. Trade with japan benefitted us. So we should've kept it.

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

And assuming they did we could've had more time to prepare. And not lost thousands of servicemen plus a dozen ships in pearl harbor.

[The Republic of Fore]

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

Yeah, and I'd rather not sell a gun to someone who plans on shooting me.

Yup, stopping trade with Japan did great things to prevent them from attacking us. Oh wait.

[Senkaku]

Even the Japanese, having forever renounced war as the sovereign right of a people, realize this is naive horseshit.

See, you're against military intervention, but here and elsewhere you're implying you'd support a policy of extraterritoriality for US citizens abroad. Hard to square that circle.

News flash: US citizens were harmed during Japan's war in China. Ever heard of the Panay?

1. It's literally not. There's no reason the US need to intervene anywhere. Other countries have militaries.

And in some cases, they may want to use them against the US.

2. It's not too hard at all, we should advise US citizens in war torn regions to return home.

We've always done this, and frequently people don't listen. You're still essentially saying you support extraterritoriality for US citizens overseas, which is bananas.

3. Japan apologized for the panay and paid an indemity. We didn't go to war with Israel when they blew up a technical research ship.

Keep movin' those goalposts, you'll get there eventually!

Japan could’ve tried doing the exact same thing.

Japan started those wars to conquer new resources and territory. That's a better reason to me than "we think we're the world police."

You think letting other countries wage wars of conquest whenever they like is helpful for building a safer world for Americans and America? You think that's a totally fine precedent and can't possibly threaten any American interests or citizens unless it poses a direct threat to the territory of the mainland US?

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

And assuming they did we could've had more time to prepare. And not lost thousands of servicemen plus a dozen ships in pearl harbor.

You're just straight up victim blaming now.

[Adamede]

Japan could’ve tried doing the exact same thing.

Japan started those wars to conquer new resources and territory. That's a better reason to me than "we think we're the world police."

You do realize that the US doesn’t play as”World Police” for shits and giggles right?

And literally thats one of the most hypocritical positions I’ve ever seen.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Japan could’ve tried doing the exact same thing.

Japan started those wars to conquer new resources and territory. That's a better reason to me than "we think we're the world police."

"It's ok when Japan does it and force its rule onto neighbouring countries, but America doing it is bad."

[Picairn]

Before I go, I want to identify the constantly repeated arguments by TROF:

> Don't interfere with other people's business by embargoing them! (Despite the fact that the US have the sovereign right to trade with whoever it wants and deny service to whoever it doesn't)
> The US had the right to be bombed for embargoing Japan! (And to retaliate in kind)
> What Japan did was not our business. (Despite all the genocides and war crimes)
> We don't owe the world/Chinese people/South East Asian people anything! (Yes, I'm fine with people around the world dying so long as it's not Americans!)
> The US trade with other dictatorships too! (The Tu Quoque card)
> We should sell to the highest bidder! Trade is business, not personal! (Despite the fact that it is still enabling dictatorships and the US reserves the right to sell to whoever it wants)

[Kungsu]

Yeah, and I'd rather not sell a gun to someone who plans on shooting me.

Yup, stopping trade with Japan did great things to prevent them from attacking us. Oh wait.

The issue is they were planning to attack anyways, so might as well not give them more oil for their stockpile. We only beat Japan through blind luck and the fact that Japan couldn't win a war of attrition, and with a larger stockpile and more time to set up shop in China we wouldn't have the latter as an advantage. I would not have bet the lives of every man, woman, and child in America on blind luck. Better a million soldiers than ten million civilians.

[Loben III]

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

And assuming they did we could've had more time to prepare. And not lost thousands of servicemen plus a dozen ships in pearl harbor.

We were preparing. Why else would the pacific fleet be at Pearl.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

TROF, what are your political leanings? Whilst I share your concerns for American interventionism, you seem real keen to defend a formally fascistic power.

[Kungsu]

Japan started those wars to conquer new resources and territory. That's a better reason to me than "we think we're the world police."

"It's ok when Japan does it and force its rule onto neighbouring countries, but America doing it is bad."

Japan establishing puppet governments in Manchuria and China: This is a-okay!
America trying to set up puppet governments in Latin America and the Middle East: How dare you!

Here's the real question: Would RoF be okay with 7 billion people dying so long as everyone in the US was unharmed? Honest question, because it seems to me like they are trying to say a single American life is not worth millions of others.

[Qhevak]

Not really considering they were planning a war with us anyway.

And assuming they did we could've had more time to prepare. And not lost thousands of servicemen plus a dozen ships in pearl harbor.

US joining WW2 a year or two later (and actively continuing to support Imperial Japan's economy) means easily hundreds of thousands to millions more deaths in Asia and Europe, and quite possibly a Soviet occupied France and West Germany postwar. Is no Pearl Harbor worth that?