Israeli/American Strike on Iran? Now With Murdered Scientist

[Phoenixy]

I doubt that this would ever actually come to fruition.

The detente or the war?

[Senkaku]

No, I didn't miss it at all-- you're assuming the American government is operating in good faith and telling the truth about having secret evidence and reasons for this assassination, and saying that therefore none of us can make any judgement of the situation. Given the American government's history of lying about such things, and the credibility issues faced by this administration in particular, this seems like a pretty huge assumption to rest your entire argument on, and certainly one that fatally weakens any attempt to completely dismiss other posters' assessments of the situation on the grounds that they aren't judges or intelligence analysts.

And furthermore, you specifically said that the ICC would have access to such documents in an investigation, but there's zero reason to believe the American government would turn them over to a body it doesn't recognize in the course of participating in a prosecution it would denounce as illegitimate.

I mean there is quite some evidence that Soleimani was in shady business. It isn't at all unimaginable that he'd have been involved in matters that justified the assassination.

"It isn't unimaginable"? Sounds to me like all you've got is speculation and taking the word of the American government as an article of faith.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

I mean there is quite some evidence that Soleimani was in shady business. It isn't at all unimaginable that he'd have been involved in matters that justified the assassination.

"It isn't unimaginable"? Sounds to me like all you've got is speculation and taking the word of the American government as an article of faith.

Like everyone here, I cannot do anything but speculate on the matter. But his leadership of the Quds Force and involvement in Shi'a militias and terrorist organisations like Hezbollah makes it certainly so that it is not unimaginable that the US has evidence that provides sufficient justification for the strike.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Iran has a very beautiful civilization. However unfortunately it currently suffers from a highly crazed government that absurdly believe that Israel is somehow a threat to Iran. All I hope is for the regime to fall and a liberal democratic Iran to be born.

[-Insaanistan-]

Iran has a very beautiful civilization. However unfortunately it currently suffers from a highly crazed government that absurdly believe that Israel is somehow a threat to Iran. All I hope is for the regime to fall and a liberal democratic Iran to be born.

I agree with all of this except the idea Israel isn’t a danger to Iran.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Iranians, besides not being a hivemind and obviously having many different opinions, tend also to be quite nationalistic; as such attacks on Iran by foreign powers tend to actually strengthen the regime there, even if many people oppose it for its internal policies.

I'm referring to the protesters. Most of the nationalistic, more fiery Islamist-minded protesters, were (perhaps understandably) livid over Solemani and livid over Fakhrizadeh. The point I was being a bit curt about was the assertion GHK made that "I bet they're secretly celebrating the death." These ultra-nationalist students clearly are not.

Either way, no need for the Iranian regime to get fully mad at the US over it, US officials are saying it was probably Israel, see here.

I was referring to Iranians in general and not these state-sponsored, far-right, fringe extremists. Nobody cares about them. Unless you're claiming these basiji paramilitary thugs represent most Iranians? A lot of Iranians secretly celebrated Soleimani's death from their homes. North German Realm shared some of these links, I believe? (Could NGR and The Restored Danelaw be the same person?)

Iran has a very beautiful civilization. However unfortunately it currently suffers from a highly crazed government that absurdly believe that Israel is somehow a threat to Iran. All I hope is for the regime to fall and a liberal democratic Iran to be born.

I have far more respect for predominantly Shia Iranians and their growing desire to break free from the tyranny of radical Islam than I do for Arabs who are legitimately far more conservative and fundamentalist on average and responsible for most Islamist terror attacks in the Middle East owing to them being predominantly Sunni outside of Iraq and a handful of tiny Gulf states. I met a couple of Iranians in person and dined at an Iranian restaurant in NZ where the food was delicious, and many of them don't even strike me as outwardly "Muslim". Their mannerisms and dress sense are very liberal and "un-Islamic".

I should say that I have a slightly higher regard for Shi'ites than I do for Sunnis. I can't think of a single Shia terror group that isn't sponsored by Tehran in any capacity, whereas numerous Sunni terror groups operate of their own free will and aren't always backed by Saudi Arabia. I can't think of a single Shia-perpetrated suicide bombing. It seems to always be Sunnis blowing up Shi'ites for some reason. Shi'ites seem to prefer to organize themselves and perpetrate atrocities at the state level. Otherwise, they are simply a persecuted minority. They also seem to take less offense to "respectful" depictions of the Prophet Mohammed.

Trump's repudiation of the Iran nuclear deal and crippling economic sanctions have driven more and more Iranians to channel their anger and frustration at the regime, which is what happened in January. And if this hardline approach can work on Iran, it can work on China, all without a single shot being fired. Iran is just a test run for the real deal further East.

Iran has a very beautiful civilization. However unfortunately it currently suffers from a highly crazed government that absurdly believe that Israel is somehow a threat to Iran. All I hope is for the regime to fall and a liberal democratic Iran to be born.

I agree with all of this except the idea Israel isn’t a danger to Iran.

Iran is a danger to Israel. If the Islamist regime is toppled internally, relations will improve immediately. The same goes for the Iranian-backed Hamas regime in Gaza. If Gazans topple Hamas and elect a more liberal, democratic government, the blockade will ease and relations with Israel will hopefully begin to normalize.

[-Insaanistan-]

I'm referring to the protesters. Most of the nationalistic, more fiery Islamist-minded protesters, were (perhaps understandably) livid over Solemani and livid over Fakhrizadeh. The point I was being a bit curt about was the assertion GHK made that "I bet they're secretly celebrating the death." These ultra-nationalist students clearly are not.

Either way, no need for the Iranian regime to get fully mad at the US over it, US officials are saying it was probably Israel, see here.

I was referring to Iranians in general and not these state-sponsored, far-right, fringe extremists. Nobody cares about them. Unless you're claiming these basiji paramilitary thugs represent most Iranians? A lot of Iranians secretly celebrated Soleimani's death from their homes. North German Realm shared some of these links, I believe? (Could NGR and The Restored Danelaw be the same person?)

Iran has a very beautiful civilization. However unfortunately it currently suffers from a highly crazed government that absurdly believe that Israel is somehow a threat to Iran. All I hope is for the regime to fall and a liberal democratic Iran to be born.

I have far more respect for predominantly Shia Iranians and their growing desire to break free from the tyranny of radical Islam than I do for Arabs who are legitimately far more conservative and fundamentalist on average and responsible for most Islamist terror attacks in the Middle East owing to them being predominantly Sunni outside of Iraq and a handful of tiny Gulf states. I met a couple of Iranians in person and dined at an Iranian restaurant in NZ where the food was delicious, and many of them don't even strike me as outwardly "Muslim". Their mannerisms and dress sense are very liberal and "un-Islamic".

I should say that I have a slightly higher regard for Shi'ites than I do for Sunnis. I can't think of a single Shia terror group that isn't sponsored by Tehran in any capacity, whereas numerous Sunni terror groups operate of their own free will and aren't always backed by Saudi Arabia. I can't think of a single Shia-perpetrated suicide bombing. It seems to always be Sunnis blowing up Shi'ites for some reason. Shi'ites seem to prefer to organize themselves and perpetrate atrocities at the state level. Otherwise, they are simply a persecuted minority. They also seem to take less offense to "respectful" depictions of the Prophet Mohammed.

Trump's repudiation of the Iran nuclear deal and crippling economic sanctions have driven more and more Iranians to channel their anger and frustration at the regime, which is what happened in January. And if this hardline approach can work on Iran, it can work on China, all without a single shot being fired. Iran is just a test run for the real deal further East.

I agree with all of this except the idea Israel isn’t a danger to Iran.

Iran is a danger to Israel. If the Islamist regime is toppled internally, relations will improve immediately. The same goes for the Iranian-backed Hamas regime in Gaza. If Gazans topple Hamas and elect a more liberal, democratic government, the blockade will ease and relations with Israel will hopefully begin to normalize.

It depends which Iranians: there are also many Iranian youth in the diaspora who become more religious after living under irreligious parents. Additionally, many Iranians are converting to Christianity and Atheism, but also Sunni Islam. Sunnis in Iran say the country might be 1/4 Sunni already.
Shiās do not take less offense to disrespectful depictions of the Prophet (pbuh). And don’t put is in quotes: even Macron acknowledged Muslims have a right to be angry at the drawings.

Israel is more dangerous than Iran, considering it violates UN resolutions, literally has kids sign bombs and practice killing Arabs, and operate the world’s largest open air prison.

Your fantasy where Iran is just waiting to crumble and China will follow unfortunately is not true. Iranians are getting angrier with their government, but also getting angrier at the US.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

Israel is more dangerous than Iran, considering it violates UN resolutions, literally has kids sign bombs and practice killing Arabs, and operate the world’s largest open air prison.

Both Iran and Israel violate UN resolutions (as do most states, to be fair). As to the picture of childring 'signing bombs', the Columbia Journalism Review has written about it. The story behind the picture is completely lacking in your description. As to "the world’s largest open air prison", you are presumably referring to the Gaza Strip, that was blockaded in 2007, 2 years after Israel completely withdrew from the strip. This blockade exists because after the 2007 Battle of Gaza, Hamas took control of the strip (after defeating the PLO) and started using it to terrorise Israeli and Egyptian citizens. In defence of their civilians, Israel and Egypt started a blockade.

[Phoenicaea]

besides, even if this is not properly about iran specifically, tragedy of present behavior is we have no more authorities to be trusted.

so, if some howls someone has weapon of mass holocaust, we will stay incredule and can not decide what to believe. such is tremendous for human affairs, and yet not measurable with gdp.

throw dirt at u.n. authorities in spite of losing grip on them, great. applause, applause.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

New development: ‘Israel has tape of slain Iran nuke chief talking about building five warheads’; Report says ex-PM Olmert played top-secret recording of Fakhrizadeh for President Bush in decisive 2008 meeting that boosted US-Israel cooperation against Iran’s nuclear program.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I think it is definitely something to be concerned about. Biden's team has been denied access to the Department of Defense and its agencies. Meanwhile, Pres. Trump has replaced most high-level officials with his cronies. It appears that Trump and Netanyahu may be planning a strike before January 20th.

[The Restored Danelaw]

I think it is definitely something to be concerned about. Biden's team has been denied access to the Department of Defense and its agencies. Meanwhile, Pres. Trump has replaced most high-level officials with his cronies. It appears that Trump and Netanyahu may be planning a strike before January 20th.

Make no mistake, Trump's definitely the type of petty asshole to do something like this and make it the responsibility of the guy coming after him, but I doubt this might happen. If it does, it might have been something long since planned -in which case I guess it's just Trump being the type of a dumbass who'd set a date that bad for a strike that risky.

[Phoenicaea]

the sidenote that they not fighting a war on the battlefield tells a lot, about how all people, commoners and generals slike, know what ruin this may be. for both sides.