NATION

PASSWORD

Indiana AG: LGBT Parents should be stripped of Rights

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7103
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:42 pm

Thepeopl wrote:
Sundiata wrote:You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.


History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57111
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:42 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?

Considering that Jews and Muslims strongly disagree with what it means to follow in the will of god, neither would be included in that list.


Fair.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:43 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Loben III wrote:sure.


So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?


is it in a church or synagogue or any other place of Abrahamic worship?
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63698
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:43 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?

Considering that Jews and Muslims strongly disagree with what it means to follow in the will of god, neither would be included in that list.


Neither should all Christians, per Sundiata's reasoning.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57111
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Loben III wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?


is it in a church or synagogue or any other place of Abrahamic worship?


You're dodging my question. Why is marriage only available to people following religions you approve of in this scenario?
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:
History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


almost as if existing for only a relatively short time tends to put a damper on that.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63698
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:
History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


If I walk into your driveway and say I own your car, do I actually own your car?

Why does the Catholic church suddenly have ownership of marriage?
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7103
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The sacrament includes love, yes. It includes the love between a husband and wife but it's not about the husband or the wife. Generally speaking, our lives are not about us.


That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12450
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:
History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


And not in all cultures either, just to remind you.

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33958
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.

Lol. No.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Loben III wrote:
is it in a church or synagogue or any other place of Abrahamic worship?


You're dodging my question. Why is marriage only available to people following religions you approve of in this scenario?


the mind boggles, almost as if i have biases in favor of those (one more then the others) religions.

no cant be that.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7103
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Kannap wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


If I walk into your driveway and say I own your car, do I actually own your car?

Why does the Catholic church suddenly have ownership of marriage?

Because the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded and that St. Peter (the first Pope) is the rock of. Christ himself elevated marriage and its importance.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2763
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.

Literally cannot without killing everyone else.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12450
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.


Forcing LGBTQ+ to remain celibate, or forcing them into a straight marriage is not "remaining good"

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63698
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:47 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.


By torturing and oppressing people, we shall achieve true goodness.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7103
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:48 pm

Adamede wrote:
Sundiata wrote:We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.

Literally cannot without killing everyone else.

Again, our means must remain good.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36478
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:48 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.


Forcing LGBTQ+ to remain celibate, or forcing them into a straight marriage is not "remaining good"

I love that they are still ignoring the harm they are doing to children.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2763
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:49 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:Literally cannot without killing everyone else.

Again, our means must remain good.

Forcing people into loveless marriages isn’t good.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63698
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:50 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:
If I walk into your driveway and say I own your car, do I actually own your car?

Why does the Catholic church suddenly have ownership of marriage?

Because the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded and that St. Peter (the first Pope) is the rock of. Christ himself elevated marriage and its importance.


Sounds like a good enough reason to oppress people and be hateful towards people, I suppose. As Jesus commanded of course. Jesus sure encouraged hate and intolerance and being a vessel for harm.
Last edited by Kannap on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:50 pm

Adamede wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Again, our means must remain good.

Forcing people into loveless marriages isn’t good.


happens all the time, look at the divorce rate.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36478
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:51 pm

Loben III wrote:
Adamede wrote:Forcing people into loveless marriages isn’t good.


happens all the time, look at the divorce rate.

I was not aware that everyone who divorced entered the marriage unwillingly.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2763
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:51 pm

Loben III wrote:
Adamede wrote:Forcing people into loveless marriages isn’t good.


happens all the time, look at the divorce rate.

Murder and rape happen all the time too, does that make them good?

Just because something happens a lot doesn’t mean it should happen at all.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63698
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:52 pm

Loben III wrote:
Adamede wrote:Forcing people into loveless marriages isn’t good.


happens all the time, look at the divorce rate.


I'd bet money the overwhelming majority of those people willingly got married, ya know, and weren't forced to do so.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58346
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:52 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:Literally cannot without killing everyone else.

Again, our means must remain good.

Why should Lgbt people be forced to chose between two awful options neither of which will make them happy? It would cause misery and mental harm.

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:52 pm

Kannap wrote:
Loben III wrote:
happens all the time, look at the divorce rate.


I'd bet money the overwhelming majority of those people willingly got married, ya know, and weren't forced to do so.


emphasis on loveless marriage.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ayytaly, Dejado Atras, Great Algerstonia, Greater Cosmicium, Kowani, Roblox Crossroads, Second Alternia, Trovyen

Advertisement

Remove ads