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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:33 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:What purpose would that be?

Sanctification; the conformity of one's heart and life to the will of God.


And what about people who do not worship the Abrahamic God? Are they not allowed to get married?
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:33 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Do you honestly believe that a loving creator, that gave its creations free will and the capacity for reason, would rather they not exercise those gifts?

Reason is not to be utilized for its own narrow sake, but for the sake of sanctification. We have free will so we can adequately love God in return. It's a choice, ideally a reasonable choice to marry a man and woman.


Now you want me to marry a man AND a woman? The demands are getting outrageous.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:33 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Do you honestly believe that a loving creator, that gave its creations free will and the capacity for reason, would rather they not exercise those gifts?

Reason is not to be utilized for its own narrow sake, but for the sake of sanctification. We have free will so we can adequately love God in return. It's a choice, ideally a reasonable choice to marry a man and woman.

Forced love is not love. The scenario you are setting up is objectively harmful to children. Not on;y do you want to harm children by denying them a loving household between married same-sex partners, not only do you want to force people into either a loveless marriage or their life alone, you also want to subject children to broken homes. That is the reality of what you are trying to implement and all the come ons and soft-spoken comments will not change this.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:33 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Do you honestly believe that a loving creator, that gave its creations free will and the capacity for reason, would rather they not exercise those gifts?

Reason is not to be utilized for its own narrow sake, but for the sake of sanctification. We have free will so we can adequately love God in return. It's a choice, ideally a reasonable choice to marry a man and woman.

Even if that man and that woman are not attracted to each other, let alone love each other?
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:36 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.


Np, these are pains and sufferings you want to force them into.

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Loben III
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Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:37 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Sanctification; the conformity of one's heart and life to the will of God.


And what about people who do not worship the Abrahamic God? Are they not allowed to get married?


theres always civil unions.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:38 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Ah so you are saying that you are willing to force people into suffering and loneliness. Now do you think that such an existence is good for the children of such a marriage? Wouldn't it be better for the children if their parents were in a happy fulfilling relationship with a person they are capable of having a fulfilling relationship with?

I thought that sacrament included love. Since homoromantic individuals will never love their partner then you are either forcing people to lie to god or remain alone for their entire life.

The sacrament includes love, yes. It includes the love between a husband and wife but it's not about the husband or the wife. Generally speaking, our lives are not about us.


That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:38 pm

Loben III wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what about people who do not worship the Abrahamic God? Are they not allowed to get married?


theres always civil unions.

Otherwise known as marriage.
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Loben III
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Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:39 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Loben III wrote:
theres always civil unions.

Otherwise known as marriage.

sure.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:40 pm

Kannap wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't hate anyone. I'm not going to hate you.


Then why partake in forcing harm on people if you don't hate them?


Pretty much this.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:40 pm

Loben III wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Otherwise known as marriage.

sure.


So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:41 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Loben III wrote:sure.


So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?

Considering that Jews and Muslims strongly disagree with what it means to follow in the will of god, neither would be included in that list.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:42 pm

Thepeopl wrote:
Sundiata wrote:You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.


History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:42 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?

Considering that Jews and Muslims strongly disagree with what it means to follow in the will of god, neither would be included in that list.


Fair.
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Loben III
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Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:43 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Loben III wrote:sure.


So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?


is it in a church or synagogue or any other place of Abrahamic worship?
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:43 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?

Considering that Jews and Muslims strongly disagree with what it means to follow in the will of god, neither would be included in that list.


Neither should all Christians, per Sundiata's reasoning.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Loben III wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So why should only Jews, Christians and Muslims be allowed to marry?


is it in a church or synagogue or any other place of Abrahamic worship?


You're dodging my question. Why is marriage only available to people following religions you approve of in this scenario?
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Loben III
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Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:
History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


almost as if existing for only a relatively short time tends to put a damper on that.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:
History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


If I walk into your driveway and say I own your car, do I actually own your car?

Why does the Catholic church suddenly have ownership of marriage?
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The sacrament includes love, yes. It includes the love between a husband and wife but it's not about the husband or the wife. Generally speaking, our lives are not about us.


That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:
History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


And not in all cultures either, just to remind you.

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.

Lol. No.
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Loben III
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Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Loben III wrote:
is it in a church or synagogue or any other place of Abrahamic worship?


You're dodging my question. Why is marriage only available to people following religions you approve of in this scenario?


the mind boggles, almost as if i have biases in favor of those (one more then the others) religions.

no cant be that.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Kannap wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Marriage is common to all cultures as is pairing. However, the recognition of marriage as a sacrament occured too late in my opinion.


If I walk into your driveway and say I own your car, do I actually own your car?

Why does the Catholic church suddenly have ownership of marriage?

Because the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded and that St. Peter (the first Pope) is the rock of. Christ himself elevated marriage and its importance.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
That's just from your religion.
Which is why we cannot have one as the state religion.

We can have one religion but our means to that end must remain good.

Literally cannot without killing everyone else.
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