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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:05 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:Sounds utterly miserable, why would you wish that upon people?

I don't wish suffering upon people but these trials, as well as similar trials are necessary to forge us well. Struggles aren't arbitrary. "They are always there to show which way is safe to go," to quote St. Josemaria. Pain and difficulty will someday cease.


You can say you don't wish suffering upon people all you want, but when you're literally advocating for forcing them to suffer nobody will believe you.
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Necroghastia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:06 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:Sounds utterly miserable, why would you wish that upon people?

I don't wish suffering upon people but these trials, as well as similar trials are necessary to forge us well. Struggles aren't arbitrary. "They are always there to show which way is safe to go," to quote St. Josemaria. Pain and difficulty will someday cease.

How is your choice between loneliness and a mockery of a true relationship necessary?
Necroghastia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Yes, with people of the opposite sex or remain celibate if they so choose.

You do realize how how pyrrhic the thing you're advocating for is? You say you don't want gay people to spend their lives alone, but you would reduce options to a hollow, unfulfilling mockery of a true relationship or celibacy. Would a loving God truly reduce gay people to those options and those alone? Especially if he made them gay to begin with?
Last edited by Necroghastia on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
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Postby Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:07 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:Sounds utterly miserable, why would you wish that upon people?

I don't wish suffering upon people but these trials, as well as similar trials are necessary to forge us well. Struggles aren't arbitrary. "They are always there to show which way is safe to go," to quote St. Josemaria. Pain and difficulty will someday cease.

Not if you force gay people to be miserable by not letting them act on their sexuality.
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:18 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:Sounds utterly miserable, why would you wish that upon people?

I don't wish suffering upon people but these trials, as well as similar trials are necessary to forge us well. Struggles aren't arbitrary. "They are always there to show which way is safe to go," to quote St. Josemaria. Pain and difficulty will someday cease.


So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.
Last edited by Celritannia on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
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Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:56 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:Then what amount of alone is acceptable?

Well, if it were up to me noone would feel alone.

And yet you want to shove people into loveless marriages simply because of the sex they’re attracted too.
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:03 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't wish suffering upon people but these trials, as well as similar trials are necessary to forge us well. Struggles aren't arbitrary. "They are always there to show which way is safe to go," to quote St. Josemaria. Pain and difficulty will someday cease.


So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.
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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
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Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:04 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.

Nope.

And if they do that’s not a god worth worshipping.
Last edited by Adamede on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Necroghastia
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Posts: 4289
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:05 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.

What purpose would that be?
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:05 pm

Adamede wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Well, if it were up to me noone would feel alone.

And yet you want to shove people into loveless marriages simply because of the sex they’re attracted too.

You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.
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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63738
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.


What's the purpose of being hateful towards people?
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Neutraligon
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Posts: 36627
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.

Ah so you are saying that you are willing to force people into suffering and loneliness. Now do you think that such an existence is good for the children of such a marriage? Wouldn't it be better for the children if their parents were in a happy fulfilling relationship with a person they are capable of having a fulfilling relationship with?
Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:And yet you want to shove people into loveless marriages simply because of the sex they’re attracted too.

You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.

I thought that sacrament included love. Since homoromantic individuals will never love their partner then you are either forcing people to lie to god or remain alone for their entire life.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.

What purpose would that be?

Sanctification; the conformity of one's heart and life to the will of God.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63738
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:09 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:And yet you want to shove people into loveless marriages simply because of the sex they’re attracted too.

You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.


[citation needed]
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:10 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:And yet you want to shove people into loveless marriages simply because of the sex they’re attracted too.

You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.

Marriage is an outdated practice imho, but so long as we have it, you should bear in mind that it is no longer in the sole domain of religion.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
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Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:11 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:What purpose would that be?

Sanctification; the conformity of one's heart and life to the will of God.

The same god that smites entire cities off the map, children included?
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 34054
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:13 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So, you would still want them to be unhappy and miserable.

No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.

At least you admit that what you are proposing will cause suffering. The next step is to renounce that proposal.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:15 pm

Kannap wrote:
Sundiata wrote:No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.


What's the purpose of being hateful towards people?

I don't hate anyone. I'm not going to hate you.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
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Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:16 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:
What's the purpose of being hateful towards people?

I don't hate anyone. I'm not going to hate you.

And yet you want people to suffer.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Thepeopl
Minister
 
Posts: 2009
Founded: Feb 24, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Thepeopl » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:16 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Adamede wrote:And yet you want to shove people into loveless marriages simply because of the sex they’re attracted too.

You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.


History does not agree with that.
Marriage predates your religion. Pair bonding predates even marriage.
https://www.thespruce.com/history-of-marriage-2300616#:~:text=Marriage%20comes%20from%20Middle%20English,seen%20in%201250%2D1300%20CE.&text=The%20main%20goal%20of%20marriage,love%2C%20but%20for%20economic%20liaisons.

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Necroghastia
Senator
 
Posts: 4289
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:27 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:What purpose would that be?

Sanctification; the conformity of one's heart and life to the will of God.

Do you honestly believe that a loving creator, that gave its creations free will and the capacity for reason, would rather they not exercise those gifts?
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:27 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Sundiata wrote:No. I'm saying that while unfortunate our pains and sufferings have purpose.

Ah so you are saying that you are willing to force people into suffering and loneliness. Now do you think that such an existence is good for the children of such a marriage? Wouldn't it be better for the children if their parents were in a happy fulfilling relationship with a person they are capable of having a fulfilling relationship with?
Sundiata wrote:You don't seem to get that marriage is a sacrament. I don't blame you for that, as that's how most people see it.

I thought that sacrament included love. Since homoromantic individuals will never love their partner then you are either forcing people to lie to god or remain alone for their entire life.

The sacrament includes love, yes. It includes the love between a husband and wife but it's not about the husband or the wife. Generally speaking, our lives are not about us.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36627
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:30 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Ah so you are saying that you are willing to force people into suffering and loneliness. Now do you think that such an existence is good for the children of such a marriage? Wouldn't it be better for the children if their parents were in a happy fulfilling relationship with a person they are capable of having a fulfilling relationship with?

I thought that sacrament included love. Since homoromantic individuals will never love their partner then you are either forcing people to lie to god or remain alone for their entire life.

The sacrament includes love, yes. It includes the love between a husband and wife but it's not about the husband or the wife. Generally speaking, our lives are not about us.

I notice you ignored my question about the children. And yes, our lives are about us since we are the only ones who can live them. If the marriage is not about the people involved in the marriage then it has already failed as a marriage. It is truly astonishing how badly you understand human psychology as well as what will harm people. But then you claim that people should be forced to suffer so there is that as well.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63738
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:31 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:
What's the purpose of being hateful towards people?

I don't hate anyone. I'm not going to hate you.


Then why partake in forcing harm on people if you don't hate them?
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
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Trump Dictatorship America
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Nov 14, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Trump Dictatorship America » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:31 pm

ok jumping out of character what the hell?? america is such a mess
Last edited by Trump Dictatorship America on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7140
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:32 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Sanctification; the conformity of one's heart and life to the will of God.

Do you honestly believe that a loving creator, that gave its creations free will and the capacity for reason, would rather they not exercise those gifts?

Reason is not to be utilized for its own narrow sake, but for the sake of sanctification. We have free will so we can adequately love God in return. It's a choice, ideally a reasonable choice to marry a man and woman.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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