NATION

PASSWORD

Indiana AG: LGBT Parents should be stripped of Rights

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Esheaun Stroakuss
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1989
Founded: May 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:06 am

Reko Guire wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
You unironically think kids will become fucked up from having two dads?

The homosexuality could rub off on them.


You must be joking.
For: Socialism, Democracy, LGBT+, BLM, Freedom of Speech, Marxist Theory, Atheism, Freedom of/from Religion, Universal Healthcare
Against: Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism, Fascism/Nazism, Authoritarianism, TERFs, Tankies, Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Capitalism

Esheaun Stroakuss is leaderless.

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7138
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:24 am

Reko Guire wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
You unironically think kids will become fucked up from having two dads?

The homosexuality could rub off on them.

Come on man.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:25 am

Kernen wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Well, Libertarianism and children are incompatible.

Thus the existence of parental rights.


Call it authority or dictatorship.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7138
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:28 am

Nousa wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
You unironically think kids will become fucked up from having two dads?


Wouldn't surprise me. Fun Fact relevant to this case: Lesbian couples have the highest domestic abuse ratings of any couple pairing in the United States.

That's true, there's plenty of room to speculate why. Regardless, every individual deserves a fair shot.
Last edited by Sundiata on Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6974
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Kernen wrote:Thus the existence of parental rights.


Call it authority or dictatorship.

Except it isn't either. You already accepted the premise that children's rights are not coextensive with those of adults. Even if they are negative limits on a child's actions, they are positive abilities and entitlements granted to parents. That entitlement or ability is the concept at issue with such disputes. The term 'rights' is perfectly appropriate.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

User avatar
Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6974
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:54 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Reko Guire wrote:The homosexuality could rub off on them.

Come on man.

Come on man is a meaningless plea in the context of a rigorous discussion. You might consider refutation.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 113863
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:24 pm

Kernen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Come on man.

Come on man is a meaningless plea in the context of a rigorous discussion. You might consider refutation.

Fine. Homosexual people have rubbed me and I didn't turn to the gay side.
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Thepeopl
Minister
 
Posts: 2007
Founded: Feb 24, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Thepeopl » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:34 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kernen wrote:Come on man is a meaningless plea in the context of a rigorous discussion. You might consider refutation.

Fine. Homosexual people have rubbed me and I didn't turn to the gay side.

https://youtu.be/t1JhjugqB0U
Ricky Gervais on how fat people =/= homosexuality
Last edited by Thepeopl on Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kungsu
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Kungsu » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:39 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Not just self-harm. Sexual activity as well.

Furthermore, children simply are not capable of the kinds of decision making necessary to function on the same level as adults. This isn't even an opinion, this is basic fucking fact. Psychology 101. Acting like this is not true is not just factually wrong and intellectually dishonest, it is downright harmful to the very children you seek to help.

You're sick and tired of authoritarian parenting? So am I. But the alternative isn't no parenting whatsoever, so stop ripping off Rothbard's Ethics of Liberty.


Well, Libertarianism and children are incompatible.

That's why I quit being a libertarian. Well...among other reasons, but still. The most basic level of security parenting (typically) provides a child cannot be stripped away without serious repercussions. Is one truly free if one is dead? Or has to constantly worry about where their next meal will come from? Arguably, one is most free with a balance of safety and freedom, as safety creates opportunity and freedom allows one to act on it.
Dharmists_Malays_Christians_Hakkas_Muslims_

Kungsu is not representative of my beliefs, political or otherwise.
Might be responsible for Zarzura
Does not use NSS

PRO: Moderation, Compromise, Choice, Democracy, Equality, Social Reform, Multiculturalism, Globalism, Spirituality, Welfare, Law Enforcement, Environment, Christ-like Love & Tolerance
ANTI: Extremism, Polarization, Communism, Corporatism, Laissez Faire, Obscene Wealth, Two-or-Less Party States, Zealotry, Blind Idealism, Authoritarianism, Moral/Religious Crusades, Immutable Tradition, Levitical Christians

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37872
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:45 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kernen wrote:Come on man is a meaningless plea in the context of a rigorous discussion. You might consider refutation.

Fine. Homosexual people have rubbed me and I didn't turn to the gay side.

of course not
your cat is black and white
she lacks rainbows
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe,world leader approvals, and police violence/misconduct!
Headline of the day: China successfully lands on Mars
“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6974
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:47 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kernen wrote:Come on man is a meaningless plea in the context of a rigorous discussion. You might consider refutation.

Fine. Homosexual people have rubbed me and I didn't turn to the gay side.

There we go.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

User avatar
Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6974
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:50 pm

Kungsu wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Well, Libertarianism and children are incompatible.

That's why I quit being a libertarian. Well...among other reasons, but still. The most basic level of security parenting (typically) provides a child cannot be stripped away without serious repercussions. Is one truly free if one is dead? Or has to constantly worry about where their next meal will come from? Arguably, one is most free with a balance of safety and freedom, as safety creates opportunity and freedom allows one to act on it.

This is the inherent failure in most libertarian beliefs.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 113863
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:12 pm

Thepeopl wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Fine. Homosexual people have rubbed me and I didn't turn to the gay side.

https://youtu.be/t1JhjugqB0U
Ricky Gervais on how fat people =/= homosexuality

I am not fat.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:24 pm

Kernen wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Call it authority or dictatorship.

Except it isn't either. You already accepted the premise that children's rights are not coextensive with those of adults. Even if they are negative limits on a child's actions, they are positive abilities and entitlements granted to parents. That entitlement or ability is the concept at issue with such disputes. The term 'rights' is perfectly appropriate.


I don’t think these arbitrary entitlements should exist. Hence the word “rights” is not appropriate at all.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Kungsu
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Kungsu » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:35 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Kernen wrote:Except it isn't either. You already accepted the premise that children's rights are not coextensive with those of adults. Even if they are negative limits on a child's actions, they are positive abilities and entitlements granted to parents. That entitlement or ability is the concept at issue with such disputes. The term 'rights' is perfectly appropriate.


I don’t think these arbitrary entitlements should exist. Hence the word “rights” is not appropriate at all.

You are, perhaps, right. At least semantically. I would probably refer to it as "parental duty/obligation" or even "parental privilege". It is the parent's duty and/or obligation to care for and shelter the child, whether one enjoys such things or sees it as a boon is irrelevant. And, when viewed as good for the parent, parenthood is a privilege that even with our current laws can be revoked on certain grounds.

Entitlement does sound kind of tyrannical, tbh. Though I would still assert that children do have a right to being raised in a safe environment, but anything beyond that I would leave up to debate.
Last edited by Kungsu on Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dharmists_Malays_Christians_Hakkas_Muslims_

Kungsu is not representative of my beliefs, political or otherwise.
Might be responsible for Zarzura
Does not use NSS

PRO: Moderation, Compromise, Choice, Democracy, Equality, Social Reform, Multiculturalism, Globalism, Spirituality, Welfare, Law Enforcement, Environment, Christ-like Love & Tolerance
ANTI: Extremism, Polarization, Communism, Corporatism, Laissez Faire, Obscene Wealth, Two-or-Less Party States, Zealotry, Blind Idealism, Authoritarianism, Moral/Religious Crusades, Immutable Tradition, Levitical Christians

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 113863
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:51 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Kernen wrote:Except it isn't either. You already accepted the premise that children's rights are not coextensive with those of adults. Even if they are negative limits on a child's actions, they are positive abilities and entitlements granted to parents. That entitlement or ability is the concept at issue with such disputes. The term 'rights' is perfectly appropriate.


I don’t think these arbitrary entitlements should exist. Hence the word “rights” is not appropriate at all.

Maybe you should start a thread on it instead of hijacking this one.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Cordel One
Senator
 
Posts: 4523
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cordel One » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:07 pm

oh no I thought this was TET, so sorry
Last edited by Cordel One on Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Leftie and brunch interrupter
Pro: leftism, the Paris Commune, neozapatism. communism, anarchism, Marxism, antifascism, choice, the environment, LGBTQ rights, minority rights, direct democracy, universal healthcare, open borders, labor unions, debating, my comrades

Anti: bourgeoisie, rightism, fascism, capitalism, liberalism, racism, sexism, xenophobia, the police, military industrial complex, imperialism, USA, PRC, overused talking points
Open to TGs - Please join my region the DankLeft Commune!

User avatar
Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6974
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:15 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Kernen wrote:Except it isn't either. You already accepted the premise that children's rights are not coextensive with those of adults. Even if they are negative limits on a child's actions, they are positive abilities and entitlements granted to parents. That entitlement or ability is the concept at issue with such disputes. The term 'rights' is perfectly appropriate.


I don’t think these arbitrary entitlements should exist. Hence the word “rights” is not appropriate at all.

You already ceded the issue. Whats left is bickering about what words you don't like. Since changing the term from what is commonly understood to something that doesn't hurt your feelings only invites confusion and disregards the inverse effect of such limitations on children, your argument is left with no legs on which to stand.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 113863
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:46 pm

Kernen wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
I don’t think these arbitrary entitlements should exist. Hence the word “rights” is not appropriate at all.

You already ceded the issue. Whats left is bickering about what words you don't like. Since changing the term from what is commonly understood to something that doesn't hurt your feelings only invites confusion and disregards the inverse effect of such limitations on children, your argument is left with no legs on which to stand.

Arguements that are Immature and childlike, one may say.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Postauthoritarian America
Diplomat
 
Posts: 809
Founded: Nov 07, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Postauthoritarian America » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:44 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:https://youtu.be/t1JhjugqB0U
Ricky Gervais on how fat people =/= homosexuality

I am not fat.


Dare to be fat! Fat is where it's at!
8:46 | "There are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. And I want hereafter to be ranked with the latter and, I trust, the stronger party." -- Ulysses S. Grant, 1861 | "You don't get mulligans in insurrection." | "Today's Republican Party is America's and the world's largest white supremacist organization." | "I didn't vote to overturn an election, and I will not be lectured by people who did about partisanship." -- Rep. Gerry Connolly

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7138
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:47 pm

Kernen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Come on man.

Come on man is a meaningless plea in the context of a rigorous discussion. You might consider refutation.

Man, I know. I'm just sensitive to homophobia.
Last edited by Sundiata on Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44910
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:43 am

Atheris wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Nonsense.

I think it was a joke.


One does not joke about gay cooties.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Thepeopl
Minister
 
Posts: 2007
Founded: Feb 24, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Thepeopl » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:00 am

Kungsu wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
I don’t think these arbitrary entitlements should exist. Hence the word “rights” is not appropriate at all.

You are, perhaps, right. At least semantically. I would probably refer to it as "parental duty/obligation" or even "parental privilege". It is the parent's duty and/or obligation to care for and shelter the child, whether one enjoys such things or sees it as a boon is irrelevant. And, when viewed as good for the parent, parenthood is a privilege that even with our current laws can be revoked on certain grounds.

Entitlement does sound kind of tyrannical, tbh. Though I would still assert that children do have a right to being raised in a safe environment, but anything beyond that I would leave up to debate.

Parents rights refer to the right to make medical decisions in emergency situations. To give the child your family name. The right to be recognized as primary caregiver and thus being able to attend school meetings about your child. Or just be allowed to pick up the child after school.
These are the parental rights that I can think of, on the fly

User avatar
Kungsu
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Kungsu » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:53 am

Thepeopl wrote:
Kungsu wrote:You are, perhaps, right. At least semantically. I would probably refer to it as "parental duty/obligation" or even "parental privilege". It is the parent's duty and/or obligation to care for and shelter the child, whether one enjoys such things or sees it as a boon is irrelevant. And, when viewed as good for the parent, parenthood is a privilege that even with our current laws can be revoked on certain grounds.

Entitlement does sound kind of tyrannical, tbh. Though I would still assert that children do have a right to being raised in a safe environment, but anything beyond that I would leave up to debate.

Parents rights refer to the right to make medical decisions in emergency situations. To give the child your family name. The right to be recognized as primary caregiver and thus being able to attend school meetings about your child. Or just be allowed to pick up the child after school.
These are the parental rights that I can think of, on the fly

Fair enough. I amend my initial statement, seeing how I had not taken these things into consideration. It's all semantics anyways.
Dharmists_Malays_Christians_Hakkas_Muslims_

Kungsu is not representative of my beliefs, political or otherwise.
Might be responsible for Zarzura
Does not use NSS

PRO: Moderation, Compromise, Choice, Democracy, Equality, Social Reform, Multiculturalism, Globalism, Spirituality, Welfare, Law Enforcement, Environment, Christ-like Love & Tolerance
ANTI: Extremism, Polarization, Communism, Corporatism, Laissez Faire, Obscene Wealth, Two-or-Less Party States, Zealotry, Blind Idealism, Authoritarianism, Moral/Religious Crusades, Immutable Tradition, Levitical Christians

User avatar
United Engiresco
Attaché
 
Posts: 95
Founded: May 31, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby United Engiresco » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:58 am

The LGBTQ+ communities need MORE rights, not less.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."
- Nelson Mandela

"Those who fail to remember the warnings of history are doomed to repeat them."
- Winston Churchill

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: An Alan Smithee Nation, Blue Amazon, Garbelia, Human Framework, Ifreann, Kustonia, Laka Strolistandiler, Malynea, Ovstylap, Panslavicland, Picairn, Resilient Acceleration, Samudera Darussalam, Sao Nova Europa, Shrillland, Souseiseki, The Blaatschapen, The Free City of Nelson

Advertisement

Remove ads