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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:10 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:We need to think evolutionarily. Why do Abrahamic religions ban male homosexuality?


The Abrahamic religions are vast and segmented within themselves so many times. You can't treat them like a monolith, the majority of Christians - with the exception of a few sects - support LGBT rights and same sex marriage. I can't speak for Islam and Judaism, because I'm not knowledgeable enough.

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:I bet the natural causes would probably be STDs among gays & bisexual men as well as boosting fertility rates among starving agricultural people so that they can be more robust in wars.


Ignoring the facts and information available to you out there, sure you could come to that conclusion, but I'd bet that's not the topic of this thread.
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Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
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Postby Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:24 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Loben III wrote:
So why are you bent on forcing non Catholics to adhere to tradition.

No, no. I want everyone to be a part of the fold.

I'm sorry, but I and most other people don't want to be part of your Catholic theocratic dystopia.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:25 pm

Kannap wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:We need to think evolutionarily. Why do Abrahamic religions ban male homosexuality?


The Abrahamic religions are vast and segmented within themselves so many times. You can't treat them like a monolith, the majority of Christians - with the exception of a few sects - support LGBT rights and same sex marriage. I can't speak for Islam and Judaism, because I'm not knowledgeable enough.

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:I bet the natural causes would probably be STDs among gays & bisexual men as well as boosting fertility rates among starving agricultural people so that they can be more robust in wars.


Ignoring the facts and information available to you out there, sure you could come to that conclusion, but I'd bet that's not the topic of this thread.

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Nekostan-e Gharbi
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Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:26 pm

Kannap wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:We need to think evolutionarily. Why do Abrahamic religions ban male homosexuality?


The Abrahamic religions are vast and segmented within themselves so many times. You can't treat them like a monolith, the majority of Christians - with the exception of a few sects - support LGBT rights and same sex marriage. I can't speak for Islam and Judaism, because I'm not knowledgeable enough.

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:I bet the natural causes would probably be STDs among gays & bisexual men as well as boosting fertility rates among starving agricultural people so that they can be more robust in wars.


Ignoring the facts and information available to you out there, sure you could come to that conclusion, but I'd bet that's not the topic of this thread.


I’m not ignoring facts. Reality is something neither the left nor the right likes lol.

Male homosexuals have more STD than heterosexuals who have more STD than lesbians.

So it is the male gender as opposed to homosexuals that is dirty which is actually consistent with experience.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:31 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Would you force them to do this? Or force them to be celibate?

They'd choose between the two.

Every time I see something that shows the beauty and love unique to Christianity, I manage to come to NSG and see Sundiata say something that ruins it.

I hope you get to live a privileged life that avoids having society force you into a position like this.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:37 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Kannap wrote:
The Abrahamic religions are vast and segmented within themselves so many times. You can't treat them like a monolith, the majority of Christians - with the exception of a few sects - support LGBT rights and same sex marriage. I can't speak for Islam and Judaism, because I'm not knowledgeable enough.



Ignoring the facts and information available to you out there, sure you could come to that conclusion, but I'd bet that's not the topic of this thread.


I’m not ignoring facts. Reality is something neither the left nor the right likes lol.

Male homosexuals have more STD than heterosexuals who have more STD than lesbians.

So it is the male gender as opposed to homosexuals that is dirty which is actually consistent with experience.


I'm trying to be nice by when I say that's not the topic of the thread. Here's another reminder that this is not the topic of the thread and is quite irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:45 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Kannap wrote:
The Abrahamic religions are vast and segmented within themselves so many times. You can't treat them like a monolith, the majority of Christians - with the exception of a few sects - support LGBT rights and same sex marriage. I can't speak for Islam and Judaism, because I'm not knowledgeable enough.



Ignoring the facts and information available to you out there, sure you could come to that conclusion, but I'd bet that's not the topic of this thread.


I’m not ignoring facts. Reality is something neither the left nor the right likes lol.

Male homosexuals have more STD than heterosexuals who have more STD than lesbians.

So it is the male gender as opposed to homosexuals that is dirty which is actually consistent with experience.


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Freiheit Reich
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:06 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
This might help. Note, I don't agree with some of these rules, but I found it awhile ago and remember these rules. They are pretty strict. :

http://www.catechism.cc/articles/QA.htm#02

7. May a married couple engage in natural intercourse during the wife's pregnancy, or during her period?

7. May a married couple engage in natural intercourse during the wife's pregnancy, or during her period?

Yes, natural intercourse is permitted between a husband and wife during those times.

Although the natural marital act does not result in a new conception during pregnancy, the act itself is still inherently directed toward procreation. Natural intercourse is the type of sexual act that is inherently ordered toward the procreative meaning, as well as toward the marital and unitive meanings. And so the marital act remains moral even when conception cannot occur due to pregnancy.

There are two common reasons that Catholics ask if marital relations is moral during the wife's period. First, some ask because St. Thomas Aquinas wrote that marital relations is not moral during menstruation. However, his opinion was based on a misunderstanding about reproductive biology, in that he thought harm would result to the offspring. Given the medical knowledge that no such harm results to the offspring from marital relations during menstruation, his opinion on this point is in error.

Second, some ask because they mistakenly think that conception cannot occur as a result of sexual relations during menstruation, and they mistakenly think that marital relations is not moral if procreation cannot possibly result. But as long as the sexual act is the type of act inherently directed at procreation, i.e. natural genital-to-genital intercourse, the act retains the procreative meaning intended by God for marital relations. For it is the inherent ordering of an act toward its moral object, not the attainment of the moral object, that causes an act to be either good, or intrinsically evil.

Even when natural intercourse is unable to attain procreation, it remains ordered toward procreation, and so it retains its proper procreative meaning. Natural marital relations is moral, even when the husband and wife are unable to conceive, because the essential moral nature of the act remains inherently ordered toward the threefold good intended by God for sexual relations: the marital, unitive, and procreative meanings.


So let's pick and choose what we want to follow from Leviticus?


I am actually not that religious. I just wanted to show what some strict Christians believe in regards to sex and periods to answer the posters' question.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:55 pm

Kannap wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:We need to think evolutionarily. Why do Abrahamic religions ban male homosexuality?


The Abrahamic religions are vast and segmented within themselves so many times. You can't treat them like a monolith, the majority of Christians - with the exception of a few sects - support LGBT rights and same sex marriage. I can't speak for Islam and Judaism, because I'm not knowledgeable enough.


Reform Judaism, the largest sect of Judaism in the US, was pro LGBT back in the 1970s. Jews have been pretty open towards LGBT people and their rights
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:21 pm

Kernen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:They'd choose between the two.

Every time I see something that shows the beauty and love unique to Christianity, I manage to come to NSG and see Sundiata say something that ruins it.

I hope you get to live a privileged life that avoids having society force you into a position like this.

I want to make this clear: I'm not expressing the moral attitudes of the Catholic Church to hurt your feelings or victimize you, let alone anyone else who shares similar experiences. If you'd like to stop this discussion because you're feeling frustrated I don't blame you.

We can stop at any time. Your feelings are yours. If you'd rather not continue this discussion I really do wish you a good rest of your week.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:34 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kernen wrote:Every time I see something that shows the beauty and love unique to Christianity, I manage to come to NSG and see Sundiata say something that ruins it.

I hope you get to live a privileged life that avoids having society force you into a position like this.

I want to make this clear: I'm not expressing the moral attitudes of the Catholic Church to hurt your feelings or victimize you, let alone anyone else who shares similar experiences. If you'd like to stop this discussion because you're feeling frustrated I don't blame you.

We can stop at any time. Your feelings are yours. If you'd rather not continue this discussion I really do wish you a good rest of your week.

I want to understand why you think Lgbt people should be forced into relationships were they are unhappy and have no attraction whatsoever? Don’t you see the harm that could cause children in such relationships?

Having the option of that or being alone is no choice at all. Both are terrible.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I want to make this clear: I'm not expressing the moral attitudes of the Catholic Church to hurt your feelings or victimize you, let alone anyone else who shares similar experiences. If you'd like to stop this discussion because you're feeling frustrated I don't blame you.

We can stop at any time. Your feelings are yours. If you'd rather not continue this discussion I really do wish you a good rest of your week.

I want to understand why you think Lgbt people should be forced into relationships were they are unhappy and have no attraction whatsoever? Don’t you see the harm that could cause children in such relationships?

Having the option of that or being alone is no choice at all. Both are terrible.

Again, I don't think that anyone should be forced into marriage or celibacy. These are two moral choices in line with the moral teaching of the church that someone can voluntarily pursue. I hope that's understood.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:56 pm

Sundiata wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I want to understand why you think Lgbt people should be forced into relationships were they are unhappy and have no attraction whatsoever? Don’t you see the harm that could cause children in such relationships?

Having the option of that or being alone is no choice at all. Both are terrible.

Again, I don't think that anyone should be forced into marriage or celibacy. These are two moral choices in line with the moral teaching of the church that someone can voluntarily pursue. I hope that's understood.

Yet that’s the choice your presenting and it’s a awful choice to give someone. I couldn’t bear the idea of either.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:02 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Again, I don't think that anyone should be forced into marriage or celibacy. These are two moral choices in line with the moral teaching of the church that someone can voluntarily pursue. I hope that's understood.

Yet that’s the choice your presenting and it’s a awful choice to give someone. I couldn’t bear the idea of either.

Well, that's understandable if you disagree. I can't make you be like me, think like me, or feel like me. I respect your opinion.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:08 pm

Sundiata wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yet that’s the choice your presenting and it’s a awful choice to give someone. I couldn’t bear the idea of either.

Well, that's understandable if you disagree. I can't make you be like me, think like me, or feel like me. I respect your opinion.


I’m glad you feel that way but I fail to understand how you think what you’ve presented is a viable option and don’t see the harm it would cause.

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Nekostan-e Gharbi
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Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:09 pm

What are people even discussing? Everybody just talks past each other.

My millet/pillar idea sounds like a necessity to prevent these kind of problems from happening.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nekostan-e Gharbi
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Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:13 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Well, that's understandable if you disagree. I can't make you be like me, think like me, or feel like me. I respect your opinion.


I’m glad you feel that way but I fail to understand how you think what you’ve presented is a viable option and don’t see the harm it would cause.


What about my solution?

There is not even any way this dialogue is going to be productive. What needs to happen is that there needs to be a Catholic pillar just like what existed in Netherlands back then. SJ also needs to be another pillar.

We have to get people who want to mess in others’ choices into their own respective communities where they can enforce whatever morals they want in and only within them. The rest of humanity who mind their own businesses does not exactly want to hear about endless social issue arguments and protests 24/7.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
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Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:14 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I’m glad you feel that way but I fail to understand how you think what you’ve presented is a viable option and don’t see the harm it would cause.


What about my solution?

There is not even any way this dialogue is going to be productive. What needs to happen is that there needs to be a Catholic pillar just like what existed in Netherlands back then. SJ also needs to be another pillar.

We have to get people who want to mess in others’ choices into their own respective communities where they can enforce whatever morals they want in and only within them. The rest of humanity does not exactly want to hear about endless social issue arguments and protests 24/7.

What is your solution?

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Nekostan-e Gharbi
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Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:16 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
What about my solution?

There is not even any way this dialogue is going to be productive. What needs to happen is that there needs to be a Catholic pillar just like what existed in Netherlands back then. SJ also needs to be another pillar.

We have to get people who want to mess in others’ choices into their own respective communities where they can enforce whatever morals they want in and only within them. The rest of humanity does not exactly want to hear about endless social issue arguments and protests 24/7.

What is your solution?


I already explained it.

Catholics can have their Catholic internet and settlements where there are actually religious laws as long as they don’t go out and apply it elsewhere. Same for Islamic groups, SJ, ethnonationalists of whatever kind etc. There are just way too many zealous enforcers who try to impose their opinions on other people. We need some peace.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
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Abolish China and save lives.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:22 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:What is your solution?


I already explained it.

Catholics can have their Catholic internet and settlements where there are actually religious laws as long as they don’t go out and apply it elsewhere. Same for Islamic groups, SJ, ethnonationalists of whatever kind etc. There are just way too many zealous enforcers who try to impose their opinions on other people. We need some peace.
Well, I actually like interacting with people who have different opinions and values from my own. I wouldn't want to limit the reach of the church.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:23 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:What is your solution?


I already explained it.

Catholics can have their Catholic internet and settlements where there are actually religious laws as long as they don’t go out and apply it elsewhere. Same for Islamic groups, SJ, ethnonationalists of whatever kind etc. There are just way too many zealous enforcers who try to impose their opinions on other people. We need some peace.


No, for one thing this is a secular country. Second it would not work with things like the military and the fact that certain corporations have headquarters in certain areas. Plus how would that effect children.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:56 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
I already explained it.

Catholics can have their Catholic internet and settlements where there are actually religious laws as long as they don’t go out and apply it elsewhere. Same for Islamic groups, SJ, ethnonationalists of whatever kind etc. There are just way too many zealous enforcers who try to impose their opinions on other people. We need some peace.


No, for one thing this is a secular country. Second it would not work with things like the military and the fact that certain corporations have headquarters in certain areas. Plus how would that effect children.
Children in places that don't have same-sex adoption relative to those that do?
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Suriyanakhon
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:23 am

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:We need to think evolutionarily. Why do Abrahamic religions ban male homosexuality? I bet the natural causes would probably be STDs among gays & bisexual men as well as boosting fertility rates among starving agricultural people so that they can be more robust in wars.


If that were the case then homosexuality wouldn't have been accepted in other parts of the world as much as it was. Abrahamic religions probably inherited their aversion to homosexuality from some earlier Middle Eastern cultures and this was strengthened by early Jews seeing ritualized homosexuality in cultures that they saw as foreign and alien, such as the Greeks and Romans.
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Thepeopl
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Postby Thepeopl » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:25 am

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
So let's pick and choose what we want to follow from Leviticus?


I am actually not that religious. I just wanted to show what some strict Christians believe in regards to sex and periods to answer the posters' question.


Yes, nicely ignoring my question about adultering heterosexuals, according to the bible (ot) one should stone them to death. (Both adulterers)
So morally speaking, they should be stripped of their parental rights as well. Why don't Christians clamour about that?

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Suriyanakhon
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:28 am

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Your morals are not the only morals that exist. Confucianism is older than yours.

No. Confucianism is dharmic in origin, like Hinduism, like Buddhism. It doesn't make logical sense for God to operate in the manner described by dharmic religions and teachings for a variety of reasons. These reasons are outlined by Aquinas as he describes the qualities necessary to being and goodness.


You could make a thread about this if you feel inclined, it would be a fairly interesting topic (and wouldn't distract from this one).
Liblefter & Theravada Buddhist
dO yOu LiStEn tO gIrL iN rEd
Johann von Goethe wrote:The God-head is effective in the living and not in the dead, in the becoming and the changing, not in the become and the set-fast; and therefore, similarly the intuition is concerned only to strive towards the divine through the becoming and the living, and logic only to make use of the become and the set-fast.
Resident drowned Victorian waif

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